How long is too long for an airline ticket refund?

Talk about an airline delay! / Photo by Phil Ostrow - Flickr
Question: We have been trying to get a refund from Southwest Airlines for almost one year. It’s a refund that Southwest fully admits it owes, but always finds another excuse not to pay. I hope you can help us.

Last spring, my family had tickets to fly from Fort Myers, Fla., to Milwaukee, Wis. When we arrived at the gate, a Southwest agent told us our flight was oversold and that all seats had been assigned. We were denied boarding.

They informed us that we had two options: either accept a refund of the cost of our return flight and find our own way home, or take the next available flight from Ft. Myers to Milwaukee, which was not until two days later.

We took the refund. The agent wrote a check with the numerical amount of $1,387.20. However, she wrote the dollar amount in long-hand as “One Thousand Three Hundred and Seventy Three 40/100.” Therefore, there was a discrepancy in the two identified amounts written on the check.

In all the commotion that was occurring with a number of passengers trying to deal with this same issue, we did not notice Southwest’s error in writing this check. We only discovered the error when we were notified five days later that our bank refused to deposit the check because the dollar amount did not match the legal written amount.

We contacted Southwest by phone, and were told they would write a new check. But we’ve gone back and forth for months, and I’ve been getting passed from one department to another. We’ve also reported this to the Department of Transportation. Still, no check.

As a result of Southwest Airlines’ denying us boarding rights to our scheduled flight, we incurred significant costs to obtain four one-way tickets on another airline. Because we were forced to buy one-way tickets with less than seven days advance purchase, we had to pay the highest rate possible. Can you help us get our money back? — Greg Melgares, Milwaukee, Wis.

Answer: Southwest should have written you a check in the right amount when you couldn’t board. But that’s not all.

Have a look at the airline’s travel policies. Its contract of carriage (PDF download) spells out Southwest’s obligations when you’re turned away at the gate, a process referred to as involuntary denied boarding. Check out section 9 under “Service Interruptions.”

You were entitled to more than just a refund for being kicked off your flight. You should have received twice the sum of the value of your remaining flight coupon or you could have opted for flight vouchers for the same amount.

No question about it, Southwest shorted you.

I’m surprised the Transportation Department didn’t get involved in your case. The involuntary denied boarding compensation requirements are part of federal regulations, and they are well-enforced by the government.

If this ever happens to you again, don’t allow yourself to be processed by a ticket agent. I understand there were crowds at the airport — after all, it was spring break — and that the agents seemed overworked. But this is what they do, and you shouldn’t feel bad if they’re having a stressful day.

Stop the process. Pull up the airline’s contract of carriage on your cellphone and read the paragraphs about involuntary denied boardings. Don’t let them hurry you up and force a resolution. Read the check and make sure it lines up with what the contract says.

I contacted Southwest on your behalf. It called you and apologized, saying the person responsible for your refund had left the company and that your refund had “fallen through the cracks.” It overnighted to you a check for the correct amount and a $500 travel voucher.

  • TonyA_says

     Here’s what the law (Title 14: Part 250 Oversales) actually says:

    Method of Payment

    The airline must give each passenger who qualifies for denied
    boarding compensation  a payment by cash or check for the amount
    specified above, on the day and place the involuntary denied boarding
    occurs. However, if the airline arranges alternate transportation for
    the passenger’s convenience that departs before the payment can be made,
    the payment will be sent to the passenger within 24 hours. The air
    carrier may offer free tickets in place of the cash payment. The
    passenger may, however, insist on the cash payment, or refuse all
    compensation and bring private legal action.
    CASH IS KING!

  • TonyA_says

    Bodega, I also want to emphasize that the Denied Boarding Compensation (Overbooking) rule does not mean that if you are given compensation that your ticket is INVALIDATED. You are being compensated for being hassled. Your ticket might still be valid for a refund.

  • Lindabator

    They didn’t even get 100%! What a debacle!

  • TonyA_says

    Carver, in some countries if you are given a bad check, it is considered “fraud”.

  • Lindabator

    Like that idea!

  • Lindabator

    No, it had nothing to do with cost – he plainly stated that when they arrived at the GATE, they were told all the seats were already filled (which means the flight had already BOARDED, as there are no pre-assigned seats), and they had no seats for them.  Another reason to GET THERE EARLY – especally when travelling with a group.

  • TonyA_says

    If this was indeed SWA, the unused portion of the ticket might still be refundable to SW funds (for later use). The money we are talking about here is only denied boarding compensation (not a ticket refund).

  • Lindabator

    But they don’t overbook a class of service (Y vs H), they overbook a cabin – so 1st come 1st served no matter what the price.  And believe me, those last minute bookers scream the LOUDEST when they get bumped!

  • Lindabator

    Right – that’s why I think they wandered over after everyone had already boarded (seats all “assigned” then) and no seats were left.  When are folks going to learn?

  • Lindabator

    Thank you!  There is ALREADY a law in place, it was just not enforced, so why would one more, two more, etc laws be needed?  And who thinks that/those would then be enforced???

  • Lindabator

    AH – because this is a low cost versus a legacy carrier, and they do NOT have ticketing agreements with the other airlines, and are not REQUIRED to put you on another flight.  (One of the ways they keep costs down).  When people choose a low cost carrier, they need to consider what pains they can bear in a situation like this, or go another route, unfortunatley.

  • Lindabator

    But again, during Spring Break, when all flights are sold, they may not have had another option TO offer them – and they cannot offer another airline as an option, as they have no agreements with them, so no way to pay for the client’s tickets for them.

  • TonyA_says

    I understand what you are saying but I don’t have the heart to blame the OP. He got a bad check, waited one year to get money, on top of having to buy 4 walk-up tickets.

    I really hate this overbooking policy of airlines. If you look closely at availability screens, airlines will keep open Y and near-Y seats even if the rest of the classes are closed out. That means that they are overbooking only the expensive (refundable) fares since it is those tickets that they can really lose seats/revenue because they are refundable. Airlines will not lose money on non-refundable fares since if the pax does not show up, it’s bye-bye to their money. So, technically, there is no reason for an airline on a normal flight to bump a pax holding non-refundable tickets. But it happens because the airline OVERSOLD (the expensive) refundable tickets.

    It’s hard to explain this to hard working folks who spend their savings (and plan way ahead) in buying restricted non-refundable fares. They follow the rules to the letter including the required check-in times. What they don’t know is what you said – they really have to be there much earlier because  it’s last one in-first out in bumping.

    The Y class ticket buyer is lucky. If he needs to really fly, he arrives in the airport at the same time but gets priority boarding (ahead of all the bump candidates). If he changes his mind, he simply refunds his whole ticket. Poor people need not apply.

  • Lindabator

    Tony, they clearly said this was last year, so definately a true WN flight, not AirTran.  And although I like Southwest, they can (and obviously do!) drop the ball occasionally.  Why the DOT didn’t respond to this is what is absolutely vile.  It is CLEARLY their job in this matter.

  • flutiefan

     i was thinking the same thing about class vs cabin, but i couldn’t figure out how to word it. thank you!

  • flutiefan

     more support for my They-Were-Late theory.

  • TonyA_says

    Because they paid more. :-)

  • Lindabator

    Think you have those dates correct, hon.  :)  I think the problem here could have been avoided if they arrived to the gate EARLY – when travelling as a group, and during peak travel season, ALWAYS recommended.  Or here we go!

  • flutiefan

     SWA lets you cash the check right at their ticket counter (assuming they have enough cash on hand).

  • flutiefan

     ”I really don’t understand why SWA didn’t just get them on another airline”… i explained that low cost carriers (such as SWA) do not accommodate their passengers on other airlines. that’s all.

    and yes, you’re right… there were other options they could’ve explored. 

  • TonyA_says

     CORRECTION This new compensation amount went into effect only 23AUG 2011 (but passed into law April  2011). If he was bumped prior to that date then the compensation was only 200% of the value of the ticket.
    I apologize for not noticing the dates on the article. It said he was waiting for ALMOST ONE YEAR.

  • flutiefan

     it’s a little funny that their whole complaint is based around the conflicting amounts written on the check… not about how or why they didn’t get on the plane and the correct compensation associated with IDB.

    in other words… they KNOW they were late to the flight, and they KNOW that SWA knows that. they just don’t want Chris nor us to know.

  • flutiefan

     because SWA owns AT.

  • TonyA_says

    If they were LATE, then they were not due compensation. If your meaning of LATE is they did not arrive ahead of everyone else, then the airlines need to EMPHASIZE that.

    So HOW EARLY do you want the pax to arrive in the airport? Even if you do this, some people will arrive earlier than others. So those who arrive last (even if they are on time) are SOL for bumping.

    The real issue is OVERBOOKING not LATE passengers.

  • MarlaM

    I “liked” your comment when I really meant to reply – just because all the seats were full doesn’t mean they were late.  It just means they weren’t as early as everyone else.  If they got there 10 minutes before the required time, they were not late, but all seats could have been filled by that time.

  • TonyA_says

     Funny, what’s the point of adding more rules. 99.99% of my customers don’t even know the rules today. If they try to read them, they would not understand or care (until there is a problem).

  • TonyA_says

    Frankly my bank would have accepted the check since it would just read the DOLLAR NUMBERS. They are too busy and will not read the WORDS. Or, if he used an ATM, chances are it will be OK since all those checks go to a processing center that would also just encode the NUMBERS.

    The pax real complaint is waiting for his money for one year. I think he was able to stomach the bumping itself.

  • MarlaM

    I honestly don’t think that the reason they were bumped is at all relevant to this story, as the OP was just asking Chris to help him get the refund he was entitled to per SWA.  Nothing more.  You keep bringing it up as if they were trying to hide something, which doesn’t seem to be the case at all.

  • TonyA_says

    Statistics Worth Checking Out

    Go here   http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/passengers_denied_confirmed_space_report/     and take a look at Southwest Airline’s “bumping” statistics. It surprised me! I didn’t know they are one of the worst (if not the worst).

    I have a feeling it has something to do with Southwest’s lenient policy on unused tickets. I think you can simply “bank” them without penalties. This has the effect of making non-refundable tickets very usable even if you change your mind. Also, Southwest does not charge a change penalty so people are more inclined to make changes. I suspect Southwest has to counteract this will more OVERBOOKINGS.

    In a “classic” airline you may lose your entire fare if you cancel or don’t show up. A change in dates would cost at least $150. This has a tendency to make passengers STICK to their original plans. So classic airlines really only have to be watchful of fully refundable tickets – those that do not have change or refund penalties. If these people don’t fly but make a reservation, their seats would fly empty with no revenue. So, if these airlines overbook, it will likely be in this Y or near-Y fare bookings. [There is no point to oversell a cheap fare in a lower booking class.]

    But for Southwest, all types of fares (all booking classes) have a propensity to change or not show up since they can all bank unused tickets (without penalty). This may force Southwest to lower the bar (or threshold) for overbooking if they want to guarantee a high passenger load factor. In other words, Southwest may have to overbook more than other airlines. The problem is what happens when all the passengers actually show up.

    Unlike classic airlines, Southwest won’t endorse you to another carrier. So you either wait for the next available WN flight or you take the denied boarding compensation and buy a walk-up fare from some other airline. Since most Southwest fares are cheap, then 4x the WN (one-way) fare you are holding (maybe the cheapest web only fare) may not be enough to get you home.

    Well that’s the price we pay for super flexible policies. At least now I know my risks. I think.

  • Michael__K

    Passengers can can keep coming earlier and earlier, and you’re still going to blame passengers for not learning.

    If the airline sells ‘X’ more tickets to passengers who show up than they have seats on the plane, then ‘X’ passengers will get bumped.  Period.  Nobody how early everyone shows up.

    If the OP’s arrived at the airport 4 hours early, then (maybe) they wouldn’t have been the ones bumped.  And then you would be blaming some other passengers who arrived before them and now get bumped instead and receive the bad check instead of them….

  • flutiefan

     like i said earlier, i don’t like overbooking either. but it happens.
    and SWA DIDN’T compensate them… they refunded their tickets. nothing more.  this lends credence to my thought that they weren’t there in time (less than 10 min before departure) and they didn’t want to wait around hoping for standby on later flights.
    again… NO COMPENSATION, just a refund.

    and by the way, your money isn’t *poof*gone* when you have a non-refundable fare and don’t show up on SWA.  you get to use the full value of the ticket for 1 year from date of purchase.

  • flutiefan

    100% true… except they weren’t given COMPENSATION, only a refund.  which suggests they weren’t due anything extra.

    they keep saying they were “denied boarding” but the likely reality is that they came to the gate after the flight had boarded, less than 10 minutes before departure, when passengers who haven’t showed up yet lose their rights to a seat on that flight and the seats are given to other customers (usually standbys).

    so, i’m sorry, but if they got to the gate 10 minutes prior to flight time, then they WERE late, regardless. most airlines have their doors closed by that point. (and Spirit is already heading to the runway at 10 min prior….true story)

  • flutiefan

     i never defended overbooking. i even said i don’t like it at all.
    but these people are twisting the truth. they did not come to the gate with at least 10 minutes to go before departure. is that so much to ask? that you’re at your gate at least 10 minutes prior?

  • flutiefan

    it’s 100% relevant… because THEY WEREN’T “BUMPED”. that’s a very precise term, and one that i sincerely doubt applies here. they were just late and effectively missed the flight by not being there when all seats were released (10 minutes prior to departure).

    the OP was trying to throw in there that they were involuntarily denied boarding, to get sympathy from Chris and the other readers.  i’m sorry you disagree, but their story does not add up. they were not at the gate in time. the end.

    now, about the check, i fully agree that taking a year to get the correct amount was ridiculous.

  • flutiefan

    it’s 100% relevant… because THEY WEREN’T “BUMPED”. that’s a very precise term, and one that i sincerely doubt applies here. they were just late and effectively missed the flight by not being there when all seats were released (10 minutes prior to departure).

    the OP was trying to throw in there that they were involuntarily denied boarding, to get sympathy from Chris and the other readers.  i’m sorry you disagree, but their story does not add up. they were not at the gate in time. the end.

    now, about the check, i fully agree that taking a year to get the correct amount was ridiculous.

  • flutiefan

     you hit the nail on the head. they are so lenient (too lenient, i think) with missed flights and changes and such that they have to counteract with overbooking.  i hate overbooking. at my airline, doing the “who wants to volunteer?!” dance is excruciating. i had to invol DB a young girl the other day to the tune of a $1300 check, just because the people who’d originally volunteered changed their minds at the last possible second. i shouldn’t have to do that at all.

  • Raven_Altosk

    I used to volunteer when I was offered decent compensation. These days it’s $200 in United Funny Money which is always subject to blackout dates. :(

  • Michael__K

    I guess you think it’s accepted practice to smear passengers based on your idle speculation.

    Passengers who in this case haven’t even complained about anything other than the fact that they received a bad check and couldn’t get that resolved within 1 year through normal channels.

    You complain that THEY are twisting the truth?  While you claim with false certainty that they didn’t arrive 10 minutes before the flight?  And while you claim with false certainty that they must have paid $693.60/ticket (only way that the check could represent “just a refund”)?

  • bodega3

    Yes, those are two different things.

  • TonyA_says

    Hey Michael, please relax.
    Everyone, including and especially me, is SPECULATING.

    It’s just an opinion. No one has the facts. Peace.

  • Michael__K

    Hi Tony, at least you’re up front and qualify when you’re speculating…

  • Michael__K

     So what’s you’re theory about:

    all the commotion that was occurring with a number of passengers trying to deal with this same issue

    Did ALL of those pax arrive less than 10 minutes before the flight???

    And ALL of them paid for their tickets with cash??  (In the OP’s case, ~2k in cash???)  Or SW decided to ignore their own refund policy which explicitly states: “Refunds for tickets purchased with credit cards will be credited to the same credit card.” ???

    Or is your theory that the OP’s are lying about everything and SW didn’t bother to refute them???

  • bodega3

    The OP said they took the refund.  I have never seen a carrier do a check, so this is just weird for me to understand.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    And if the DOT doesn’t have regs that cover this?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

     That’s a very fact specific scenario.  In the US a prima facie case is made for theft if the check for goods or services is dishonored due to non-sufficient funds (NSF) and not made good within a certain time frame.  Its fraud if the bank account is closed and that fact is know to the maker at the time of the purchase.

    The SW check is neither, as it was not returned NSF so none of the generally applicable bad check statutes would apply.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    Wait a moment.  He complained to the DOT.  That doesn’t mean that his complaint was related to a violation of a specific law.  That’s just speculation.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    That’s an awful lot of speculation on some mighty thin evidence

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

     Except that they don’t need sympathy.  They are 100 percent in the right with regards to their one complaint, i.e the check.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    But as someone else stated, that would just push the problem on to someone else.

  • AAmerican1

    All states have attorney generals offices with a division to protect consumers in situations like this. In addition you have your courts where you can sue.

    Why is it necessary to have a law to cover every type of incident that crops up?