Flying under the influence of the TSA: What now?

Since the last time I wrote about the Transportation Security Administration, the agency charged with protecting air travel has encountered some unexpected turbulence.

First there was the embarrassing release of an un-redacted version of its Screening Management Standard Operating Procedures in early December. Although the agency claimed that the manual was obsolete, many observers felt that it was a how-to book for aspiring terrorists.

Then there was the attempted bombing of Northwest Airlines Flight 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit on Christmas day, in which Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab tried to blow up a plane using a packet of powder sewn into his underwear. The humiliating breach of security was made worse when Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano declared that “once the incident occurred, the system worked.” Her critics begged to differ, and the secretary issued a clarification.

But that wasn’t the worst of it. What followed was a knee-jerk response in which the TSA ordered airlines on inbound international flights to frisk their passengers, force them to remain seated during the last hour of their flight, confiscate pillows and blankets, and power down their in-flight entertainment devices. Those rules have since been eased. The agency didn’t bother to offer many details about the additional precautions, creating confusion the likes of which we haven’t seen since 9/11.

Somewhere along the way, I became part of the story. After I published the full text of the security directive on my blog, I was visited by a special agent from the Department of Homeland Security, who served me with a subpoena demanding that I reveal the source of the document. I refused. The agency withdrew its subpoena on New Year’s Eve, but the fact that an agent showed up on a journalist’s doorstep at dinnertime asking him to name names suggests that at best, the TSA is a troubled agency.

At worst? I don’t even want to go there.

I won’t insult my readers by repeating the obvious advice being dispensed by the so-called experts, such as arriving at the airport early or packing light. Instead, I’d like to take a longer view on traveling while under the influence of the TSA. Assuming that only half of the awful things people are saying about the agency are true, how do you fly?

One answer: You don’t. That’s what a growing number of Americans have decided. Scheduled passenger traffic on airlines dropped 5.5 percent in 2009, according to the International Civil Aviation Organization, and 3.1 percent worldwide. That decline is the largest on record. The recession no doubt contributed to it, but I’ve spoken with countless travelers who say that they’ve had enough with the long lines, the intrusive searches and the uncertainties of airport security, and that they’ve grounded themselves.

The other answer, for those of us who don’t want to spend days in a car, is that you fly despite all that — and you expect the unexpected.

The TSA has even said as much on its Web site, TSA.gov, which for now is the best place to find out about how to prepare for your next flight. “Passengers should not expect to see the same thing at every airport,” the agency declares. “TSA has a layered approach to security that allows us to surge resources as needed on a daily basis.”

What does “surge resources” mean? Who knows? But that passengers should not expect to see the same thing at every airport — that, we understand.

All this raises a question: Is the agency being unpredictable because it wants to be, or because it can’t help it? “Let’s call it what it is,” said frequent traveler Oliver Wilson. “It’s TSA Theater, and I’m being kind here. That’s it. That’s the bottom line.”

Wilson ought to know. He’s a Los Angeles-based television and film producer.

But is this a well-rehearsed play we’re watching, designed to catch the criminals who would blow up our planes, or random improvisations that would scare away only the amateurs? I think you know the answer.

That’s why TSA reform should be high on the legislative agenda in 2010. Finding credible leadership for the agency, weeding out managers with a wrongheaded view of security and restoring the public’s confidence in what is without question the most dysfunctional federal agency in the history of the union need to be priorities. And if it can’t be fixed, our elected representatives should do us all a big favor by defunding the TSA and starting over.

Where does that leave you? The same place you were before the Christmas day attack, the incomprehensible liquids-and-gels ban and even 9/11.

Air travel is not without its risks. The TSA can’t protect you from every terrorist any more than the Federal Aviation Administration can protect you from every accident or the police can protect you from every crime.

We have to fly, anyway.

(Photo: alist/Flickr Creative Commons)

  • http://wompom.com/ Moof

    I’d be interested in seeing if, as well as a decrease in flight numbers, there’s been an increase in passenger numbers on Amtrak and Via Rail.

    North America has an extensive rail network, and whilst the trips take longer, they happen in more comfort and with less security theatre than at airports.

    If airport security is really a problem, I’d expect an increase (maybe only a modest one) in train passengers…

  • rich

    I can tell you for a fact that I will do anything to avoid flying, even driving cross-country for vacations.

  • Ted – Phoenix Justice

    @Moof,

    Yes, in the NE U.S. there is a heavy concentration of rail and a pretty good network, but of the rest of the country, rail travel is minor at best.

    I would love to be able to hop on a train and travel from Phoenix to San Diego, LA, San Francisco, Vegas and Denver but its only a dream. Instead, I either have to drive or fly. What we are witnessing with the downturn in air travel is the realization that we have neglected, if not abused, our passenger rail infrastructure to our detriment.

    As to fixing TSA, honestly I think it should become a stand alone agency, like the FDA, EPA and FBI. Get it out from under the shadow of the Committee for State Security (oops, I mean the Department of Homeland Security) and allow it to do the job it was created to do.

  • http://www.airships.net/ Dan @ Airships.net

    @ Moof:

    Please don’t assume that travel by Amtrak is an insanity-free alternative. I traveled from Chicago to San Francisco on Amtrak’s California Zephyr, and the trip was punctuated by PA announcements at every stop mentioning “Homeland Security” and reminding us that train crew members are “auxiliary U.S. Marshals” (huh??) and that failure to obey crew member instructions would result in arrest. (This ominous announcement probably would not deter any terrorist willing to die for his cause, but it certainly intimidated passengers from arguing with an especially disagreeable dining car supervisor.) There were also frequent Security Theater announcements reminding us that any piece of luggage found without a tag would be “removed by a bomb disposal team.” (Clearly a fail-safe procedure, since no terrorist would ever steal someone else’s baggage tag and put it on his own luggage after hearing such an announcement.) Of course, these were not the only oppressive announcements; one conductor made several announcements informing us that “he ran a family values train” and that people should behave accordingly (no gay weddings in the lounge car, I suppose). And add to this the fact that the train was not cleaned during the three day trip (someone got train-sick in the lounge on the first day and the resulting mess was left on the seat, covered only by a cardboard box, for the next two days) and it would have been more pleasant, and in some ways less oppressive, to have gone through an hour or two of airport insanity instead.

    I am one of those people who has greatly decreased air travel because of TSA security nonsense (especially because it probably makes air travel more dangerous rather than safer), but having given Amtrak a try, I can tell you it is not the solution to this problem.

  • Nicole

    My reason for not flying has nothing to do with the TSA and everything to do with the airlines and their hidden fees. In fact, how much easier would the TSA’s job be if everyone just went back to checking bags, instead of trying to stuff a weeks worth of crap in a “carry-on” that has to be screened/searched at the checkpoint? How much quicker and more thorough would TSA be if they didn’t have to deal with all the carry-ons? If the government needs a reason to regulate the airlines hidden fees, how about “improved security at TSA check points”?

  • cschelthoff

    Since it appears that the only “terrorist”-thwarted attacks (of which we’re aware) were prevented by passengers, there seems to be a whole group of flatliners running TSA. For the December scenario: A person buys a one-way ticket (first possible alarm) for cash (second alarm) and shows up for an international flight with no luggage (beyond alarms) and the system works? The screeners were probably just relieved that they didn’t have to deal with another passenger smuggling in a normal size bottle of shampoo or contact lens solution. So now the solution is to make it even more restricting to fly. I guess technology is more easily come by than common sense at TSA.

  • Justin

    You know something Chris,

    This country is filled with a BUNCH OF IDIOTS. A complete lot of them. I have never seen so many people WILLING TO HAND OVER their freedoms, in the name of “Security”. It seems the average American has neither a brain nor common sense. If I got on the news tomorrow and told this country, I was doing a round up of guns, and that anyone caught with one would be going to jail, I’d have the NRA and every person at my door step. Yet in this country, we see an average of16000 Murders annually. Our guns make their way to Mexico in LARGE numbers to fund their drug wars. Since 9/11…. 16,000 x 8.25 years = 132,000 Americans killed by violence, of which guns are the major culprit. Hard to kill people with a bow and arrow or a knife.

    We see guns going to Mexico (As Mentioned)

    We see guns used in Terrorist attacks such as “School Shootings” Yes, this is just as much an act of terrorism as some middle eastern guy.

    We see guns used in work place shootings. Another act of terrorism. Terrorism is pretty much an act to cause terror over one’s purported belief system.

    We see guns used to kill abortion clinic doctors and other means (espeically in 1990s) but we had recent one.

    So on so forth…. Yet Americans don’t want to hand over their guns. No way!! So Why has this country turned off its brain and handed over every single right it has, in the name of safety. Here’s some more math.

    40,000 people die in car accidents a year. Should we outlaw cars? You know, if we stick people in a padded room, we can save 40,000 lives.

    Life has risks. Life can be dangerous. You have a FAR BETTER CHANCE of dying by the hand of a fellow American as a victim of crime or in a terrorist attack. In 20 years, we’ve had 3 successful “Big” attacks. World trade center twice, and Oklahoma City by a NON MUSLIM American. Now, am I saying we should ignore security concerns. No. Yet, NONE OF THIS ACTIVITY warrants NSA spying on Americans, Patriot Act, TSA treating every passenger like we’re prisoners. It does not. Forgive me for rambling but people seem so eager to hand away their rights, just to believe they are safer…..

    Well there you go people…. Hand them all away and mistakes happen, and someone who is REALLY COMMITTED, will find new ways. Life can never be safe. You can go about living it or you can go about living it in “Fear” and thinking that big brother will make a difference. As I said before, it seems the average American is just sitting and twitching thinking that these things happen daily. They Don’t. Now Crime and Car accidents? Yep. Please proceed to hand over your car keys and guns. Lynching line, picketers, etc starts in back….

  • Justin

    *or in a a car accident THAN a terrorist attack. Sorry.

  • http://blog.AggressionManagement.com John Byrnes

    We don’t need to profile!

    We don’t need to profile. At the Center for Aggression Management, we use easily-applied, measurable and culturally-neutral body language and behavior exhibited by people who intend to perpetrate a terrorist act. This unique methodology utilizes proven research from the fields of psychology, medicine and law enforcement which, when joined together, identify clear, easily-used physiologically-based characteristics of individuals who are about to engage in terrorist activities in time to prevent their Moment of Commitment.

    Since the foiled terrorist attack by Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian national on Northwest Flight 253 to Detroit, the President has repeatedly stated that there has been a systemic failure as he reiterates his commitment to fill this gap in our security. This incident, like the Fort Hood shooting, exemplifies why our government must apply every valid preventative approach to identify a potential terrorist.

    The myriad methods to identify a terrorist, whether “no-fly list,” “explosive and weapons detection,” mental illness based approaches, “profiling” or “deception detection” – all continue to fail us. Furthermore, the development of deception detection training at Boston Logan Airport demonstrated that the Israeli methods of interrogation will not work in the United States.

    All media outlets are discussing the need for profiling of Muslim Arabs, but profiling does not work for the following three reasons:

    1. In practice, ethnic profiling tells us that within a certain group of people there is a higher probability for a terrorist; it does not tell us who the next terrorist is!

    2. Ethnic profiling is contrary to the value our society places on diversity and freedom from discrimination based on racial, ethnic, religious, age and/or gender based criteria. If we use profiling it will diminish our position among the majority of affected citizens who support us as a beacon of freedom and liberty.

    3. By narrowing our field of vision, profiling can lead to the consequence of letting terrorists go undetected, because the terrorist may not be part of any known “profile worthy” group – e.g., the Oklahoma City bomber, Timothy McVeigh

    Our unique methodology for screening passengers can easily discern (independently of race, ethnicity, religious affiliation, age, and gender) the defining characteristics of human beings who are about to engage in terrorist acts.

    The question is when will our government use true “hostile intent” through the “continuum of aggressive behavior” to identify potential terrorists? Only when observers focus specifically on “aggressive behavior” do the objective and culturally neutral signs of “aggression” clearly stand out, providing the opportunity to prevent these violent encounters. This method will not only make all citizens safer, but will also pass the inevitable test of legal defensibility given probable action by the ACLU.

    As our Government analyzes what went wrong regarding Abdulmatallab’s entrance into the United States, you can be assured that Al Qaeda is also analyzing how their plans went wrong. Who do you think will figure it out first . . . ?

    Visit our blog at http://blog.AggressionManagement.com where we discuss the shooting at Fort Hood and the attempted terrorist act on Flight 253.

  • Joe Farrell

    oh come on now . . . has anyone looked at the terrorists? Go look at Amatallab, and Richard Reid, and Osama, and Sheik Raman, and the 9/11 hijackers, and the list goes on and on and on. Until the Islamic terrorists can find a clean cut American kid to blow himself up – we have everything we need to ‘focus resources on likely terrorists’ without resorting to profiling. If profiling is taking a little longer look at a male between the ages of 15 and 45 coming from, through or born in a predominantly Muslim country coming to the United States alone. . . then we are more screwed up than I thought we were.

  • Justin

    @ Joe Farrell,

    Hold your ravenous racism to yourself.

    Timothy Mcveigh was not a Muslim and he managed to blow up Oklahoma City.

    Jose Padilla was HISPANIC and not a stand out “MUSLIM”
    Nigerian Bomber was BLACK and did not resemble a “Muslim”
    Richard Reid was Some ethnicity but did not resemble a Muslim.

    So while you wish to piss off at the mouth and profile “Muslims”… ignorance at best, please tell me how that will work. None of those listed above would have “STOOD OUT” as a typical Muslim.

    As per your OVERALL hatred of Muslims.. I guess you should take a walk down memory lane and see that Whites and Christians have done plenty of killings too in the last century.

    Milosevic in Serbia Executed 100-200,000 Muslims in his quest for Genocide and a Greater Serbia. Ie Christians killing Muslims.

    Hitler had the aid of the German Clergy when he killed the Jews… O less we forget the 6 million that perished there.

    I am not justifying bad behavior. I am merely pointing out your ignorance, stupidity, and racism fails to solve anything or yield a real productive solution.

  • Jenny

    I would agree with Nicole about the increased fees with air travel as being a deterrent to flying. The amount of crap that people bring for carry on adds in a factor of unpleasantness in screening and jostling in the aisles as everyone shoves their stuff in the overheads.
    Then if there are delays or cancellations, there the airlines’ customer services do not care about their customers. It’s as if they are doing us a favor of flying us.
    I kind of like driving down to Florida from NH at my own leisure versus flying.

  • http://www.travel-babel.com Claire Walter

    A lot of interesting comments here, including the pros/cons of Amtrak, which I took from Washington to New York last spring. Several months later, I found out that ten (10!) bus lines connect these two cities on the busy Northeast Corridor — less expensive and more straightforward than either air or rail travel. See http://tinyurl.com/le2sxq.

  • http://flywithjoe.com Joe d’Eon

    How about this for TSA craziness: An airline pilot, currently employed and flying, finds himself on the “watch list”. Still OK to fly the plane — just not as a passenger. No kidding. He told me about it in his own words: http://joepodcaster.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=568887

  • EricR

    We have a lack of common-sense leadership in America, and that’s the root of the problem. But until voters stop electing half-baked politicians based on wedge issues that barely affect any real percentage of the population, we’re stuck with what we’ve got. This is not a Democrap nor Repugnant issue, but rather a systemic cancer that has invaded a majority of Americans’ brains. People can’t think critically any more! Too many people refuse to question the nonsensical information they receive via e-mail chain letters, MSNBC, and Faux News. People form opinions based on the first source they hear/read, rather than via investigative research.

    Few people I know have any depth of historical context when discussing issues that affect us today. Look at the Republicants recent accusations that Obama obstusely took three days to make any public statement on the Underwear Bomber’s attack, and naively ordered police to arrest him under Miranda rights rather than declaring the terrorist an Enemy Combatant. And yet George W. Bush took SIX DAYS to make any public statement on the Shoe Bomber’s attack, and ALSO allowed the government to try that terrorist in a U.S. court as a common criminal.

    This is a problem because people can’t comprehend risk. Historically, more people have died from disease and natural disaster than any other danger. MILLIONS of people, not hundreds or thousands.

    And yet, what do we spend $2 trillion on? Fighting a tactic. A war on “terror.” Not a war on Islamic Radicals bent on killing as many “infidels” and mainstream Muslims as possible, but a war on fear (which is almost the poster child definition of an oxymoron, considering how much fear has been caused BECAUSE of the “war on terror”!) If every terrorist or terrorist-wannabe strapped a bomb to his chest and detonated it in a public place, they might kill about 0.000003% of the world’s “heretical” population. Ooooo – I’m scared of their awesome power and might! One nuclear bomb from Russia or America could achieve the same result, and without any suicide!

    If we had proper leadship – from either party – we’d see our elected politicians come out and explain to the country that “terrorists” of all different ideologies have killed about 4,492 Americans since 1920 (www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html); that 5,298 soldiers have died as a result of Bush II’s invasions of Iraq and Afganistan and 293 soldiers died as a result of Bush I’s invasion of Iraq. A total of about 10,000 Americans dead directly due to terrorism.

    Then we would be told how many hundreds of thousands of people have died from the seasonal flu, cancer, heart disease, cigarettes, alcohol, vehicle accidents, natural disasters, and domestic violence just in the past year.

    Approximately 6,000 planes reach their destinations safely every day worldwide. Out of over 50 million individual flights since 1950, only 1,300 have crashed (www.planecrashinfo.com). ONE-THOUSAND, THREE HUNDED out of over FIFTY MILLION flights! That means one plane crashes for every 38,500 that don’t – terrorist or otherwise.

    Of those 1,300 crashes, guess how many were brought down by terrorism? About 20 (based on the information I could find online). Which means, statistically, you’d have to fly about 2.5 million times before dying in a terrorist attack.

    And yet, the TSA is allowed to control our travel like the Gestapo, nullifying our rights as Americans under the Bill of Rights to be free of (i) unreasonable searches and seizures, (ii) being considered guilty until proven innocent, and (iii) being deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

    The best article I’ve read in years is at this link: http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/07/schneier.security/index.html and I highly recommend everyone take a chance to take a look at it. The author writes much better than I do, and has a lot of credibility due to his past experience.

  • Flazuca Palt

    Yep the TSA Theatre reaction royally screwed me even days and days after. Active, very experienced, very heavy traveler (US to Asia every 2-3 weeks). Had to make a trip last week post-holidays, but reports of baby-searching and bag-dumping fiascos had me reluctantly deviate from my usual carry-on-only as-much-as-possible policy.

    Well well turns out all the “pack light!” “they’re searching everything!” “one carry-on bag limit!” hysteria reporting was completely ERRONEOUS. After checking the bag, turns out all was ‘normal’ and would have been fine going straight through with usual 2 bags.

    But wait, there’s more – best of all, my checked bag is now apparently somewhere at the bottom of a pile of 5000 other bags (and counting with each additional day) somewhere in Heathrow Terminal 5. Naturally the wonderful braintrust at BA can’t produce any record of it whatsoever since I left it at the check-in desk. (“But don’t you have a record of it arriving in LHR?” “….uhhh no… wait… how much does your bag weigh?” “you’re asking me?!? didn’t you weigh it, don’t you have the record with the bag tag information?”…)

    Periodically I get a call from the local airport asking me about things in a bag and if any of them are mine (“you have computer?” yes. “white computer?” no. “are you sure?” yes, I’m sure. “are you sure? apple computer?” NO! “how about shoes, did you have shoes?”…) Obviously they’re just ripping bags open and calling people to ask them if things are theirs .

    Dang I prolly shoulda gone for the Apple computer, as it’s long long odds I’ll ever see my own again… Wonder what kind of shoes.. next time I’ll ask…

  • http://http/aol.com barbie45

    Dan you are so correct in your comments of Amtrack. Several years ago I decided to take a trip from Delray Beach FL. to BC Vancouver. What an expensive nightmare. I had booked a regular sleeping car for the trip. The bunk beds were very small and there were no private facilities. The public bathroom was dirty all the time. Food was excellent in Dinning car. However it was the same menu night after night. The tracks are not owned by Amtrack so the train must stop for every freight train. The dinning room supervisors could be very rude at times. I wrote down the name of every employee who was especially rude. I also kept a log of every unaccetable incident which occurred. I noticed emplyees just reading and playing cards the majority of the time. The clientale on the train leaves much to be desired. Couples were having sex in the public lavs. The use of drugs was common. When I arrived home I wrote a letter docummenting my experiences to Amtrack. I was given a 500.00 credit to be used within a year. I decided to use the voucher to go to Savannah on a deluxe sleeper. The trip up was fine. However on the trip home the AC was not working in any of the cabins. I was given a voucher for a cash refund on that portuion which had to be redeemed in Deerfield Beach. I took 2 hours to recieve my refund because of the incompetent employee. There was no entertaiment movies . The trip was very expensive with little time to enjoy my destination. Once again you cannot count on Amtack to arrive at your destination in a timely fashion because of the track situation. The caliber of emplyee was far inferior to any flight attendant I have ever met. The clientale on the train is very very low class on the whole. There is no security for your property or safety.

  • Joe Farrell

    @Justin -well – every single terrorist attack in this nation since 1999 has been at the hands of a Muslim. Thats not racism – its fact. I never said to profile blacks, hispanics or asians – I said to take a longer look at Islamic males between the ages of 15 and 45 who are NOT US Citizens. EVERY single actual, threatened or attempted terrorist attack on the US or Britain since 1999 has been the result of an Islamic male between the ages of 15 and 45. Why not profile them? Where did I EVER mention race? So how can I racist? I mentioned MUSLIM males between certain ages. Islam is a religion – not a race – so examining people on the basis of race is meaningless.

    I’m all for pulling over white vans if a child is kidnapped in a white van. It makes no sense to waste police time pulling over silver convertibles or black semis looking for the child. You might want to take a peek at one going by – but – I’m not wasting police power which is what we are doing by NOT concentrating looking at Muslim males between certain ages who are not US Citizen.

    The Tim McVeigh argument is so old and tired. That’s like saying that we need to continue to fight redcoats or men in grey uniforms because they were a threat at one time. Just because McVeigh was during our lifetime does not automatically let us compare Islamic fundamentalist terrorism from right wing nutjobs with fertilizer bombs.

    Terrorists today are Islamists. They are MUSLIM. They come from or are trained in or by Saudis, Sudanese, Yemenis, Pakistanis, Afghanis and similar nationalities. You might not like it – but – the truth is the truth. None of the people or examples you quoted, the Serbs, or Rwandans, or Germans for that matter, are threat to Americans today. Christians, not a threat as a RELIGION to anyone today.

    Sorry, Justin, I live in the real world TODAY. I am not worried about Hitler, or the Confederate Army or the Luftwaffe; I am concerned about Islamic Terrorism. And to answer your question on how to differentiate ‘Muslims;’ = ASK. Put a question on the form to obtain a visa: what is your religion? in every other country of the world it is a common enough question.

    We get an male, between the ages of 15 and 45, who checks the Muslim box, who is a citizen of nation deemed hazardous to Americans [you know where those places are - everyone does] and we take a long hard look at them at the airport. THESE people are the ones subjected to Israeli style security.

    This WILL solve the entire problem. And if the person does not selectthe Muslim box and was born in or coming from an Islamic nation – they get EXTRA security because as we all know it is against the law in Saudi Arabia and most other Islamic nations NOT to be Muslim. This does not take brain surgery – basic police work and common sense will avoid most of these issues.

  • Jack Bauer

    Here’s some perspective: NWA Flight 253 was a SUCCESSFUL ATTACK; the bomb didn’t go off because the terrorist didn’t set it right. And we have Napolitano saying “the system worked”?! The TSA (Those Standing Around) doesn’t really inspire confidence in me as a passenger, in fact, they don’t really look professional to me. So, it’s only a matter of time until another plane explodes in USA soil, then we’re really screwed! It’ll become the US of Soviet Amerika, komrades!

  • KF

    TSA at least seems to have pulled back or clarified some of their guidelines in comparison to Canada’s CATSA. All carryons are currently banned on flights from Canada to the US. Canada lacks the manpower to search carryons and currently refuses to discriminate based on country of origin, so consequently everyone is searched and you are lucky if they let you bring your laptop without a case with you.

  • Justin

    @Joe Farrell

    Every single Terrorist Attack on American Soil?

    So what defines a Terrorist Attack? Terrorism has many definitions. We have the definition that Terrorism is to spread one’s ideology. If that’s the case, PISSED OFF KIDS who go into their schools and gun down classmates would be a terrorist attack. After all, terrorism is meant to create fear and pass along one’s beliefs.

    If that’s the case.. HERE IS A CONTINUED LIST of ALL school shootings in American. I hate Wikipedia, as its the worst source ever. However, it does the most systematic breakdown, versus say posting dozens of articles.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1662373.ece

    Two sources.

    Now if you want to go outside of that realm and go to work place shootings, then we also have to look at those too.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/specials/aroundthenation/workplaceshootings/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_postal

    Probably over a hundred plus of those. Pissed off workers who go and kill employees for one reason or another.

    Then we continue to RELIGIOUS BASED KILLINGS based upon Nutjobs who believe their religion some how justifies crucifying others.

    Abortion Clinic Killings / Violence – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

    Less we forget Bush said “God” Gave him permission to invade Iraq? Should we count this one too.. I mean we INVADED a country who never harmed us, and Bush gave justification as God led him to kill others. God sure is one violent person, ay? Oddly, I hear the radical Muslims making the same allegations.

    “President George W Bush told Palestinian ministers that God had told him to invade Afghanistan and Iraq – and create a Palestinian State, a new BBC series reveals. ”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml

    Can we call ALL INNOCENT people who have been killed as a result an act of terrorism overseas by the American Government then?

    This list continues on.. I’m sure far more IDIOTS in our country have harmed others than say, “Muslim Terrorists”…..

    This of course not even bringing in the fact that you are far more likely to die in a Homicide, Car Accident, etc.

    But hey….Whatever floats your boat.

  • Justin

    @ Joe

    We get an male, between the ages of 15 and 45, who checks the Muslim box, who is a citizen of nation deemed hazardous to Americans [you know where those places are - everyone does] and we take a long hard look at them at the airport. THESE people are the ones subjected to Israeli style security.

    Because a Terrorist is going to check the “Muslim” Box so that he / she can be profiled. It would take all of five minutes for the Terrorists to figure out ANYONE who is identified as a “Muslim” by admission is now being profiled. It’s not as if they can’t change their dress and lie to say they are another faith…….Gee, what are you thinking these people are, five?

    I’ve heard dumb ideas and I’ve heard DUMB IDEAS…. I think this one is the latter of course.

    P.S. You’re worried about terrorists now.. Then lets ban guns on American Soil…. You do realize 16,000 people PER YEAR die of homicides by FELLOW AMERICANS of which I think it’s around 60 percent or 70 percent involve the use of a weapon =). Why not ban cars too. 40,000 People die from them….

    Back to guns. You do know OUR GUNS are the one’s that have made it to Mexico to fuel the drug violence. So America is SUPPORTING the war on drugs by FUELING the War. Without our READILY AVAILABLE weapons that are about 8/10 the one’s they race back, it would be hard to have say 10′s of thousands of drug related murders in Mexico a year.

    So I’m really confused. We arms deal to countries around the world. Arming them to the teeth. We make guns readily available which kill our own citizens at record numbers…. Yet, we seem to think that “Terrorists” are our biggest problem….. 3000 dead in 9 years by your so called “Muslims” and 132,000 ( 16 x 8.25 yrs since 9/11) by AMERICANS killing Americans.

    I to, focus on the issues and LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD. Please take a number and enter my door when you’re ready.

  • Joe Farrell

    @Justin – the phrase – what does ‘is’ mean comes to mind . . . you spend so much time trying to define what a terrorist is, meanwhile ‘one who would do us harm,’ as a group, prances in and blows you up sitting on your arse in a Starbucks while you are trying to come up with neat definitions on Wikipedia.

    A terrorist wants to kill us because we are members of a national or religious group.

    The school shooters and going postal employees kill people they hold a personal animus toward – specific people. Others merely get in the way Terrorists wish to kill an ideal, a generalized locus of an enemy that they have not met and rarely care about . Huge difference.

  • Jennifer (the other one)

    I’m a practicing Muslim, and I dress as such. I honestly don’t have a problem being ‘profiled’ to a reasonable extent, and when the choice is available, I will choose the ‘slow’ security lane so that the extra scrutiny I expect to receive will not slow down other travelers who are in a hurry.

    By ‘profiling’, I mean being patted down (in private, by a female), and having my carry-on opened and hand inspected. This happens to me virtually every time I fly, and I’m not sure if it’s because of my dress, or because I tend to carry lots of electronics. I don’t particularly care either way – that sort of increased scrutiny is just fine with me.

    However, there’s a big difference between increased scrutiny and blatant double standards. When it gets to the point where Muslims (or those appearing to be Muslim, or some other ‘suspect’ group) are prevented from flying or even arrested over things that no one would think twice about plain vanilla white Americans doing, then it becomes wrong. If I felt that was being done to me, I would object to it.

  • Justin

    @ Joe,

    I hardly see randomly shooting people at a work place or school, as often ends up happening, as a grudge against an individual. Once again 16,000 MURDERS a year in this country or 132,000 SINCE 9/11. 3000 Deaths due to someone “Strapping a Bomb to themselves” in the last decade vs 45 times that. Gee. I wonder what poses a greater threat. Guns or terrorists…

    So are you for banning guns? We’d certainly have 130,000 plus Americans alive today and 10s of thousands more Mexicans who die due to our arsenals that get trafficked to Mexico…

  • SuzieQ

    TSA is a joke plain and simple. My husband and I have discussed on several occasions what wold security be like if it were run military style. Not by the military but in that style.

    1) Basic Training or OTS/OCS. Those with college degrees become management and those without become service.

    2) Same rules apply as if you were military, well I guess this could be a new branch, homeland security.

    3) Fitness requirements. Frankly the 400lb guy sitting on a stool is not match for a sprinter… just saying I highly doubt he could get up and after someone who took off if he needed to.

    4) Armed guards, like security forces on military bases. We want security, I want to see someone try to back talk a guy with a weapon…

    5) Forget having the airlines check the “no fly list”. Make airlines do what they were intended to do.. people move. Let security run your picture and thumbprint through their database.. anything fishy shows up, you either don’t fly or get put on the next flight….

    So this is not fully thought out, and clearly there would be flaws as there always are when it comes to government, but honestly this would give people a chance to serve their country without going to war. I know many individuals who would love to be military, but are not willing to fight.. silly, but true!