I cringe everytime I hear one of these people held hostage stories. It is my worst air travel nightmare that I could imagine. At 6’3″, 275 lbs. I couldn’t not imagine what I would if I was sitting trapped in a middle seat in coach.
Actually I know exactly what I would do. I would open the exit emergency window and get arrested. I’d be a HERO. Flight could NOT take off then. I’d have a jail cell FAR more comfortable than any airliner seat while deciding on which PR hungry lawyer I should choose to handle my case, since this case would be huge news everywhere. The public would be behind me and the airline would look bad. One thought…are the emergency exits armed when the plane leaves the gate or not until it is airborne?

There needs to be SERIOUS legislation against this practice. I’d say anything longer than 1 hour locked up and not moving is long enough.

Definitely the pax should take JetBlue to court for this egregious example of airline arrogance and incompetence rolled into 1. They should have cancelled that flight and put those pax on a bus. There was absolutely no logical reason to keep a short-haul JFK-SYR flight in active status mode for 6hrs. Their VP Operations should be sacked over such total disregard for the pax.

It would be interesting to hear the details surrounding this excessive JetBlue tarmac delay. I would think that JetBlue would be the last airline to allow this, given the tremendous amount of bad publicity they received a few years ago.

I mention this because my worst tarmac experience happened at LaGuardia and it wasn’t the airlines fault. It was a United flight from O’Hare on an August afternoon rife with thunderstorms. We took off about noon Chicago time, flew to NY, circled for a couple of hours, and then made an unscheduled stop in Wilkes Barre, PA to refuel. Sat there on the plane for a few more hours while waiting for clearance to try for LGA once again – couldn’t deplane because the airport didn’t have a jetway to handle our type of plane. We finally got clearance to take off and landed at LGA around 9:00 PM, about 8.5 hours after we boarded the plane.

Here is where it gets bad. We ended up taxiing for 2.5 hours before reaching our gate at 11:30 PM. It was maddening. It turns out that ground traffic was way backed up and the Ground Traffic Controller screwed up our taxi route – we ended up going past our gate and had to wait in the take-off queue in order to get back to it. There were over 50 jets waiting to take off and we were at the back of the line. I was listening to the conversation on my headphones – United has an audio channel that lets you hear ATC and GTC communications. You could tell our pilot was angrier than any of the passengers – he suggested we report the incident to the news agencies when we got home.

My point is that sometimes ground traffic might not allow the jet to return to the gate, regardless of how long it has been sitting on the tarmac. Perhaps that contributed here?

I don’t know a lot about how airports work, but doesn’t the airport, not the airline, decide if the plane gets to go back to the gate to wait its turn to take off?

If it is the airline’s choice, does that mean that the flight loses its place in line? If so, I wonder if the passengers on the plane would prefer to wait on the tarmac for five hours as compared to waiting in the airport for five hours plus however much additional time because their flight kept getting pushed to the back of the line because it wasn’t waiting on the tarmac.

I’m not saying that the wait is okay, but I think it’s probably not right to put all, or even most, of the blame on the airline.

@Noah

Easy answer. I’d much rather wait in the Airport for 5 hours plus, rather than on the airplane. At the airport there are sufficient bathrooms, food and drink for purchase, the ability to walk around, stretch out, use the internet, etc. Yeah, for me its a no-brainer, even if it means possibly spending the night in an unexpected city. Just as long as I can get the distressed passenger hotel rate.

there already ARE laws against this – its called unlawful imprisonment.

Call 911 – make sure you have a flight attendant around. They’ll go right back to the gate.

@Noah – no – the airport has no control over the decision of the pilot in command. Also remember the way union contracts work, the pilots and flight attendants get paid for sitting on the ramp – there is no incentive there. The airlines lease the gates and have complete control over access to them.

As for getting off in AVP – the airline has portable stairs – and ANY jetway would allow access to an A320. Jetblue just has no gates at AVP =hence the problem with access to the airport.

@Wayne – if they cancel the flight they are cancelling two flights – the flight from SYR to LGA the next day – so – everything costs double.

Want a simple workable rule for this? Here you go:

In the event an airline becomes aware of a delay or the likely potential for a ground delay in excess of sixty minutes following closing of the aircraft door for departure and informing Air Traffic Control of being ready for taxi , the airline shall immediately inform passengers on said flight, provide access to debarking or similar services within 30 minutes of being informed of said delay in the event 10% or ten passengers wish to debark said aircraft, whichever is greater, and shall be liable for payment to each passenger delayed on board an aircraft after 90 minutes in an amount of $2 cash compensation per minute of delay with zero maximum iin the event the airline does not take off or return to the gate within 120 minutes of the scheduled departure time.”

such a rule forces airlines to be proactive in their resolution of ground delays. $120 per hour cash compensation after 2 hours for 140 people adds up pretty quick – they’ll put rules in place pretty quick as well.

I am suprised there wasn’t any passengers going ballistic. That would have caused me to go crazy and make a scene and therefore probably get arrested.

@JoeF: Would calling 911 really work? Is being on a plane for a period really constitute an emergency? Don’t get me wrong, I totally agree that this is ridiculous, but is calling 911 going to make anything happen? And would someone get charged with false 911 calls?

“the airport has no control over the decision of the pilot in command.”

Well, as I said, I don’t know exactly how airports work, but this statement is clearly NOT true. The airport controls the flow of traffic around the airport — it’s not like a public road. An plane is not allowed to just drive around the airport w/o permission from control. Again, I’m not sure exactly what the controls are, but it’s clearly not totally in the pilot’s hands.

Is there anyone here who actually works at an airport that can shed some real light on this question?

Noah,

The pilot, ultimately, is in control of all decisions for the aircraft but works with FAA air traffic controllers in the tower — not the airport — to gain direction and approval on where and when to taxi and then obtain clearance to take off. The airport role is providing services to the aircraft while at the gate, handling construction and removal of debris from runways, etc., and, when necessary, closing an airport due to a snowstorm or something. But the airport isn’t the one directing ground movements of aircraft. That’s air traffic controllers, who are Federal Aviation Administration federal employees, not airport employees. Don’t mean to be too simplistic if you already knew this but I wanted to clarify.

The point made earlier about whether it was better to withstand a long delay while out on the airport tarmac or parked at the gate with access to leave the airplane and go into the terminal is an interesting issue. There IS currently legislation in Congress (part of an FAA reauthorization bill) — approved by the House and awaiting a Senate floor vote — that provides for a passenger bill of rights. But the airlines are opposed to this and say that it would remove the ability of the pilot to ultimately get the aircraft off the ground. The airlines argue that while nobody wants to see any multi-hour delays, if you knew there was a chance you could finally get off the ground in a reasonable amount of time after a long delay trapped onboard, wouldn’t you want to do that instead of returning to the gate and removing any chance of an imminent departure?

When an aircraft returns to the gate, they’re removed from the line because there’s no way to really know who left the line when and where they deserve to get put back if they want to return. Controllers have a complex and difficult job as it is and most busy airports at certain times wouldn’t have enough concrete to allow such aircraft movements to happen anyway. It’s not like a deli at a supermarket, where if you get a number and you know you’re x number of places away from the front, you could go off and shop in other parts of the store and then return to the deli and not get skipped.

Hope this helps. Available for questions and information anytime about the air traffic control system.

Doug Church
Director of Communications
National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA)

I like the faking chest pain idea.

European Legislation forced the airlines to behave in a more appropriate manner. The legislation is simple and straightforward. There is even a small cottage industry around monitoring compliance.

I encourage readers who are passionate to speak up at the public forum being organized in Washington DC. Go here for details:

http://stakeholderhearing.eventbrite.com/

Cheers