Should I delete my TripAdvisor review of the Grand Hotel Minneapolis?

November 5, 2009

wallet Mary Yostos needs your advice.

She had a horrible experience at the Grand Hotel in Minneapolis last September. While at a wedding party, her wallet was stolen. Her complaints to the hotel were for nothing. “They said the restaurant on the second floor was technically not part of the hotel,” she says.

So she wrote a negative review about the property on TripAdvisor.com.

i was at this hotel for a pre-wedding party and we went to the restaurant upstairs…my wallet was stolen here from some guy off the street who walked into the hotel and randomly went to this restaurant. as i was in pursuit of the criminal in the street, my friends reported this to the front desk and they were not willing to call the police and said it wasnt their issue…the valet parking people ran after the criminal and called 911…i wouldnt feel safe to stay here.

That’s when the fun started.

The hotel wasn’t happy with her review. First, it responded to the post online, leaving a rebuttal on TripAdvisor. So she wrote to the hotel, explaining again what had happened.

I was at your hotel on the evening of September 11th to attend a very small pre-wedding gathering with my friends on the restaurant on the second floor.

We were the only ones in the restaurant at the time and this couple came in the midst of us and stole my wallet out of my purse right in front of me. When I actually discovered the wallet was gone, I went after him in the street.

As I went in pursuit of the guy in the street to attempt to get my wallet back, my friends proceeded to the front desk to call the police and report the incident, where the front desk person refused to call saying that the restaurant is not part of the hotel and that the hotel is not responsible for what goes on in the restaurant. While I understand this point, I just found that response very rude.

The doormen in front of the Grand Hotel and the Crowne Plaza across the street (I think they were in charge of the valet parking as well) were the ones who tried to help me by calling 911 for the police from their cell phones and help me run after the criminal. Your hotel staff though, was extremely unhelpful.

What can be done in the future? Train your staff to call the police, even if something happened in the restaurants above….it’s common courtesy….I ended up staying at the Marriott City Center down the street and actually the set up of the hotel makes it more difficult for a stranger to walk up to the lobby/restaurant areas….I know that the Grand Hotel has history behind its structure which makes it difficult, but something tells me that this guy has been in the hotel before since he knew to randomly come upstairs to the restaurant on the second floor.

I was very disappointed with the way the hotel handled the situation which prompted my post on Tripadvisor.com. I do travel a lot for work and for personal and this is the first time where anything like this has happened to me (I am from the NYC metro area and haven’t been robbed once). I do think that the hotel just needs to review its security policies that are in current place.

I did write comments to the Grand Hotel on their Web site the week after I returned from Minneapolis and sadly there was no response, up until your message today on Tripadvisor.com.

Here’s the letter she received after her inquiry and TripAdvisor post:

I just want to close the loop on the issues that we’ve been discussing. Regarding the delay in getting back to you, I’ve had to involve several people, including employees within several departments our hotel, Zahtar restaurant and the Minneapolis PD, and it’s taken quite some time to get the complete picture.

Thank you for the kind words regarding our hotel staff. We like to think (and it’s been my experience) that everyone who works here is, at the very least always hospitable, responsive and helpful, which is why your situation caught us so completely off guard. I have a lot to address here so I’m going to resort to bullet points, please forgive my formality.

1) Lack of Security…while troubling, we’re sort of in a bind here as your personal situation relates to hotel security. First of all, even though we’re privately held as a hotel we’re a very public place particularly in our “public” areas. Frankly, it’s in our best interest (and that of our lessees) to not restrict access to these places during business hours. Additionally, Zahtar (where your belongings were stolen from) is neither owned nor operated by the hotel and for us to keep out potential paying customers during business hours based on the premise that they “may be up to no good” is strictly forbidden in the terms of their lease.

2) Lack of Responsiveness…your review on Tripadvisor was literally the first time that we were made aware of your situation. Unfortunately there was some sort of technical issue with our on-line complaint forum and I did not receive the auto-generated email that the system is supposed to send. This has been fixed, and the flow of questions, praise and the occasional complaint has been restored. For this I do apologize, but please understand that it was out of control, and we would never take a complaint lightly, regardless of where an incident may have occurred.

3) Rude Desk Staff…after reviewing our records and seeing who was on duty that evening, we have taken the steps necessary to remove the individual on duty that evening (this wasn’t the first or last incident in which they were involved) from any position in which they would have guest contact. We were certainly at fault for hiring and placing this individual in the first place, and we’ve taken steps to rectify that situation in light of what you’ve told us.

4) Minneapolis PD…Having received the case # from the Zahtar manager, I followed up with the police, but also was able to get nowhere in their bureaucracy.

I understand that you have mixed feelings about Minneapolis and strongly negative feelings about our hotel based on your experience. I suppose anyone in your shoes would feel that way. But I also urge you to put yourself in our shoes. We bend over backwards to take the best care of our hotel guests…for many of us, it’s our life’s work. And it’s our sincere feeling that we have addressed the issues in your complaints, and where culpable we have tried to right our wrongs. As such, I ask that you consider editing and/or taking down your negative review on Tripadvisor.

Thank you for your time and consideration,

Geoff Roether
Senior Corporate Sales Manager
Grand Hotel Minneapolis

So should Yostos delete her review or not?

Well, TripAdvisor reviews can’t be edited once it’s submitted, but you can ask the site to remove a review.

I tried to find Yostos’ review, but it appears someone — maybe TripAdvisor acting on the request of the hotel — zapped her post. I have asked TripAdvisor to comment on this and will update this story when I hear back from the site.

Yostos asked me what to do, and frankly, I don’t know.

The people who were there said I should keep it up. The only thing they really did was just move the front desk person to another place where not dealing with guests. I feel like this guy went through everything because of the bad review on the Web site and now thinks i should take it down since he was so ‘responsive’.

Personally, I would never go back there myself…so i dont know, which is why im asking your professional opinion.

Nothing she said in her review appears to be false. But at the same time, it appears that her concerns are being addressed by the hotel.

What to do?

What would you do?

(Photo illustration: nataliej/Flickr Creative Commons)

Update (2 p.m.): Yostos has investigated the disappearance of her review:

I went onto my account and it says I never posted anything.

I was considering of being nice and adding something to say the hotel has responded, but an event is an event…and this happened and it could happen to someone else. It’s just like if you saw a rat in the room and you write a review about that.

Thanks for your help with this! I appreciate it. I guess they did the dirty work for me and removed the review so that the hotel could keep its excellent reputation. I’m contemplating writing to the manager of the Grand Hotel asking if they had anything to do with it. I find it suspicious that it disappeared after the manager asked me to remove my post.

http://www.brandlogic.com Emerson

I’d remove it. Their response was more than adequate.
Kris

If I’m reading trip advisor, I want the good, the bad, and the ugly to make a decision. As a single woman traveling, this is the type of information that I need to know before booking a hotel to make an informed decision. I would leave it up just because management only seemed to be responsive after public review. I’ll be greatly disappointed if this review disappeared because it has, as far as I know, factual, useful information.
Chris in NC

Chris (Elliott)

Slow day at the office today, so I am catching up on a lot of stuff! I don’t believe in censuring or removing posts. I do believe that addendums and follow-ups be posted.

In this situation, I feel that the hotel’s response should be added to the original post and likewise an opportunity for Ms. Yostos to post a follow-up response is what should be done.

Delete the post? No

Chris
Michelle

Yep, the hotel “addressed” her complaints, but did the do enough? I don’t think so.

I don’t see anywhere in her correspondence, that asks that the hotel close off their premises to anyone, although maybe she did and it’s just not listed her. Mr. Roether brings that up, in my opinion, to make her requests for resolution seem unreasonable. The politics of fear and control.

I think the hotel has a responsibility here, regardless of who owns the restaurant. Having security present, properly training their staff, requiring the restaurant, under their lease, to have security provisions, are all reasonable solutions, easily made.

I do not think she should take her post down, and I question TripAdvisor’s apparent action in doing so. I’m not sure I’ll trust TripAdvisor again, if that’s what they did. I think it is appropriate for her to do a follow-up note, stating that they have responded to some of her complaints, but their resolution regarding the actual security issue is still lacking, and frankly, they are passing the buck on their responsibility.
Kathy L

It seems that the hotel has, in good faith, done their best to rectify the situation for future guests. It’s future guests who need to know of incidents such as this, which is why we post reviews on these web sites. In fairness to the hotel, I would recommend that Mary repost that the guest recovery was a sincere effort to see that this is not repeated. The wiser chain of command for her to follow would have been an email/letter to the GM of the property first. Give the innkeeper an opportunity to “make good”. If you get no results that way, then you’re free to post whatever you want. Lashing out on Trip advisor seems extreme.
Jonathan

Why would you take it down? The point of TripAdvisor is to describe your experience for other travelers, not to elicit a response / corrective action from the hotel. It’s fine that the hotel decided to respond and take corrective action, but that doesn’t change her experience. If the hotel doesn’t want negative reviews, they should have responded better in the first place. The hotel can post their corrective actions and leave it to the readers to consider both points and decide if they want to stay there. Leave it up.
Sam

Just because her concerns were addressed doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Regardless of who owns/leases the restaurant in the hotel, most guests would assume the on-premises restaurant is part of the hotel.

I would encourage her to leave the review. It can reviewed by people in the proper perspective, surrounded by other reviews, and people can judge the hotel accordingly.
http://www.twiter.com/designermusings Astrid

I think it is proper for her to keep it there. Even though the hotel has taken steps to correct the situation, she did try to address them first before choosing a public forum to air her displeasure with the incident. Her account of the events is still accurate. I would add an edit to the review saying the hotel has contacted her and promised to correct the situation from ever repeating itself.
Rich

Don’t remove it. The hotel has the right of rebuttal on TripAdvisor and they should exercise that right by posting those same (or similar) bullet points of addressing Ms Yostos’ complaints.
Joe

If I’m reading a review of a hotel, I’m interested in the experience other guests had at the time when they stayed. I want to know the hotel will fix a problem long before I get back to a computer to write a review of my stay. Technical problems and poor customer service may have been fixed, but the problem was there when the guest was there: And that’s what I care about in a review. That’s why the hotel has the chance to do a rebuttal: Put it all out there and let us make the decision.

If I write a review of a restaurant and say the food was terrible, should I remove the review when the manager calls me and says they’ve replaced the chef and the food’s better now? Don’t think so. I may go back some day and try it again, but when I was there that day, the food stunk.

The only obligation here is that if Ms. Yostos is somehow persuaded to stay at the hotel once more, she should post a review of that trip on TripAdvisor as well.
http://www.yesdancan.com Dan

Since it’s gone, I suppose it doesn’t matter.

But for what it’s worth, I would amend the review with the rest of the story. Removing the review is not consistent with the spirit of the online discourse. (Sorry to get high-minded here.) The solution to conflict is more information, not less. The incident happened, and nothing the hotel did can fix the fact that it happened. It shouldn’t be shoved into the memory hole.

Rather, Ms. Yostos should add that the hotel followed up and attempted to rectify the situation. That’s the whole story, and that’s what the review should reflect.
Jennifer

I think she should leave it, but send a copy of the letter to trip advisor and ask them to inclue this with the post.

I don’t think the hotel did enough. Sure they apologized and moved the front desk person, but really, it that was me, I would have been looking for more than that, like how about a reply from the restaurant that started this?? The hotel holds the lease, they have some power.

Not nearly enough.
adm

People should know that the hotel & restaurant carry these security risks, and that this woman was a victim of a crime on the premises, and that she was not treated well during the incident.

She should edit the review (if possible) to include the response, or post an additional review indicating the response. Removing the review helps no one but the hotel.
Noah

She should remove her review because her account of what happened is almost certainly inaccurate. While I believe the gist of the story, she just watched a couple come up to her table in a restaurant and take her wallet out of her purse? Really????? I’m sure there’s some truth in the story, and I’m sure she’s telling it how she remembers it. But her view of this situation is highly suspect.
David H

How can they say that the restaurant isn’t part of the hotel? I don’t believe that you can access the restaurant any other way but through the Grand Hotel. The restaurant is marketed on the hotel website but I see no disclaimer of responsibility, and the restaurant leases the space from the hotel.

I do believe however that though the hotel employee did wrong in not calling the Police, the hotel itself is not liable for the theft.
Chicky

Ehh. This is a tough one. It sounds like she went through all the proper channels at the hotel to get satisfaction, but as she noted, until the negative review was posted, the hotel went blithely about its business. I mean, how could the staff NOT call 911? That’s not common courtesy–that’s common sense!! You don’t want thieves on the property who might have something worse in mind.
We get this at the newspaper all the time. Some business screws up. We report the legal actions taken against them, and they act so injured, as though the big, bad newspaper is just “picking” on them. But they didn’t address the issue until the media found out. Then, they want us to apologize, run a correction, etc. We will write a follow-up story about the resolution, if there is one, and allow readers to decide for themselves. But the screw up wasn’t ours–we just reported it. This is the same situation.
Ms. Yostos didn’t screw up. The hotel did. Big time. And in spite of Roether’s protestations about not getting e-mail, etc. (which could have happened, but had anyone on the staff been on the ball, someone in charge would have handled the situation), the hotel didn’t offer any satisfaction. Period. And then they start yowling once a bad review is posted.
O.K. Having said all that to say this. Here’s what I would do: request the review be taken down. THEN, I would re-write the review, and include what the hotel did, Mr. Roether’s response, etc., the individual being moved to another position, and so forth. I’d also say, “And I don’t intend to stay at this hotel again if I have other options.” TripAdvisor is a free site and she has the freedom to say that. It’s not libel or slander–it’s a personal opinion, and posting her personal opinion is perfectly legal, moral and ethical.
The TripAdvisor site functions so travelers can post the good, the bad, the ugly and the mediocre. If the Grand Hotel Minneapolis doesn’t like the bad review, then they need to kick some tails up there, get the situation straightened out and run that hotel to please the guests. If they make a real effort at stellar customer service, eventually, the good reviews will push the bad ones to the bottom of the heap. But Ms. Yostos needs to tell her story because obviously, the hotel needed a serious wake-up call.
jmj

Never remove the review.

Add an addendum (if that’s possible.) I agree with a previous commenter, trip advisor is there to help potential guests make informed decisions.
http://www.roamingtales.com Caitlin

I’d edit the post if that were an option but since it’s not I’d delete the post and replace it with a new post that updates the information. It would still be a mixed review and she could still say she wouldn’t stay there.

Trip Advisor should NOT have deleted the post.
Grant Ritchie

As I read Mr. Roether’s detailed and courteous letter to Ms. Yosto, I moved further and further into the “Delete it” camp. Then I got to the “Rude Desk Staff” paragraph that stated “this wasn’t the first or last incident” in which the individual on duty was involved. Huh? How many incidents do there have to be before you respond appropriately, Mr. Roether? If Ms. Yosto hadn’t posted her review in a public forum, would the individual in question still be at the front desk of the Grand Hotel Minneapolis? Inexcusable. Ms. Yosto, leave your review up.
EC

I wouldn’t have asked them to delete her review. Even though the Grand addressed the issues she presented, she still had a very unpleasant experience there.

I don’t agree with TripAdvisor’s removal of her review because to me, it’s not much different from all the claims that hotels artificially inflate their own or deflate their competition’s ratings on TA’s site. If anything, leaving the review up there along with the Grand’s rebuttal/letter would show travelers who may be considering this property that they DO address their customers’ concerns.

In general, deleting her review leaves a bad taste in my mouth. How can I trust TripAdvisor knowing that reviews similar to Yostos’ have probably been removed? I think hotel properties need to just own the legitimate reviews, good or bad, that they get on sites like TripAdvisor.
Alison

Noah,

As someone who was at the party, saw the event unfold, heard my boyfriend on his cell phone almost get beat up by the guy when he found him 2 blocks from the hotel, and dealt with the hotel employee who was unhelpful, let me say what she described is exactly what happened.

2 people walked into the hotel restaurant, poked around a bit, pretended to be guests, pretended to be interested in food, leaned over the bar bench, where all of our purses were, took her wallet because it was the easiest, and walked (ran according to the valets) out of the hotel into the getaway car. We all had a bad feeling and she looked in her purse immediately after, and realized the worst scenario happened.

Even if she exaggerated, it doesn’t matter….the point is, she was at a hotel restaurant, someone stole her wallet, and the hotel did nothing to help her when the crisis was happening or after even when she directly complained.

The worst part to me was the employee. After I ran out of the hotel to try and find the man or my boyfriend, the valet staff was extremely helpful, saying they tried to detain him, pointing where he ran, etc. When I explained what was happening to the employee (who should have seen a man who walked into the hotel 10 mins prior run out and should’ve took notice – it’s not a big lobby), he looked at me and said, “What do you expect me to do about it?” and proceeded to act like an insufferable jerk and yell at me.

I had other issues with the hotel, and I will never go back, but Ms. Yostos told the story exactly as it happened, was treated rudely by staff, and received a response after it was posted on a popular website. That speaks volumes and it should remain on TripAdvisor for the world to see.
Andrew M.

I would keep posting the same exact review over and over and over again until they stop taking it down. I would make it my mission. I would write letters and spread the word on all types of review-sites. Yelp doesn’t censor material from my epxerience.

You need to do this ASAP because you’ll lose the spark eventually. That’s what they want. Like other people stated, when I read reviews, I want the good, the bad and the ugly, not just candy-coated, sugary sweet, la-la-land reviews. I’ll make my own decision.

What’s the point of any review-site if the “reviewee” is allowed to take down any negative reviews? They should be able to make a rebuttal post, but the initial review SHOULD STAND.
Nathan

Full disclosure: Mary was in town for my wedding, and I was there standing next to her when the theft took place.

Noah states that he doesn’t find this a credible story. I can assure you that her account is accurate, and if anything, a little generous towards the hotel. I have a more cynical opinion of the hotel and restaurant staff and their potential ties to the thief. Mary is a much more gracious person than I am in laying blame here.

I’m not sure how many of you have been robbed, or watched a robbery take place, but there’s an element of disbelief while it’s happening. About 6 of us watched the man “fall” onto a bench where her purse was sitting, but none of us could believe that a theft was taking place. Shortly after he left is when we checked and that’s when we realize what had just happened. Then she and a few friends ran after the man and his accomplice and actually caught him, but he had dropped the wallet with his accomplice who was seen speeding off. Minneapolis police have done nothing to find these people, even though Mary gave them a license plate number.

In regards to how the hotel handled this situation, I think it’s obvious that on that evening, they committed a total service failure. Even they admit as much. I have been in communication with them as well, and from their initial responses to Mary and me, I felt they were doing the best they could with a very unfortunate situation. But if their whole aim was merely to get Mary to pretend that the incident didn’t happen and remove her TripAdvisor post, then I lose all respect for their client service. Their emails and assurances that they are trying to rectify the situation seem hollow if the only purpose was to remove a bad review.

I agree with Dan, Jennifer, and others who suggest that Mary leave the review up, but amend it to tell the story of how the hotel tried to make amends. For some potential visitors, the fact that the hotel tried to recover from a service failure will be enough to give them a try. For others, nothing could get them to stay there after such an incident. But giving everyone all the information and NOT CENSORING is what these consumer forums are all about.

TripAdvisor should immediately repost Mary’s comment. To take it down without her permission makes me distrustful of using TripAdvisor.
Noah

Alison,

She should post YOUR comment here as her review. Your comment actually explains in a coherent manner what happened, and tells a story that is believable. I, and many others, would immediately disregard a review that has an unbelievable version of the story like the one in Chris’s original blog post.
Eric Smith

I wouldn’t take it down. And the fact that apparently Trip Advisor took it down means they won’t be “advising” me on any type of travel from now on. From this point forward, every hotel review on their site is suspect. Didn’t they, or some other site, get nailed a while back for doing something similar?
kiki d

i would prefer the review be left up.

i always read about a hotel before i stay there, and i always look for the reviews that mention something beyond, “the grounds were nice, the staff was nice, the food was nice” blah blah blah. i want someone’s honest opinion and impression, even if it’s something that maybe doesn’t have anything directly to do with the hotel. this review would certainly put me on guard at the restaurant, but not not specifically keep me from staying at the hotel. i want to hear about crappy employees, a long walk from the public parking, or the fact that the dim curtains are not that dim. if the price were right, i would still consider staying at that property, but at least i would know what i was in for and be able to adjust and accomodate.

regarding the employee and the hotel appearing to not take action until mary’s complaint, you maybe should not be reading too much in to that. a good employer will try and counsel a “struggling” employee before they just let them go. perhaps the employee has been with the hotel a long time, and is just going through some personal issues that are affecting his work? i wouldn’t want to see him fired for that. most employers that have time vested in an employee will try to correct behavior or place him somewhere else if that doesn’t work, which is what the hotel appears to have done. i actually think that’s generous of them…some of us aren’t meant for public consumption, we just don’t know that until we’ve tried.
Jason

Leave it up, with amendments.

I’m more interested in the TripAdvisor response as to who removed the post and why. Maybe TripAdvisor is not what I thought it was.
Chris in NC

After checking the updates, I’m extremely disturbed that Ms Yostos’ review has “disappeared.” If it was removed by Tripadvisor under pressure from the Grand Hotel, then in my opinion the credibility of Tripadvisor has just tanked.

I repeat, the review should not be deleted. As Chris (Elliott) wrote, “Nothing she said in her review appears to be false.” Thats the crux of the issue here. She reported it as it happened. The hotel does not seem to dispute it. In fact, they seem to support Ms Yostos’ story when they wrote “we have taken the steps necessary to remove the individual on duty that evening (this wasn’t the first or last incident in which they were involved) from any position in which they would have guest contact.”

Here’s the other problem I have with the situation. The hotel seems to say that the restaurant “is not owned or managed by the hotel.” While that may be true, on the hotel’s own website, it has the restaurant featured on its dining page (http://www.grandhotelminneapolis.com/dining) The hotel wants guests and customers to associate the hotel with Zahtar, yet when something bad happens, it wants nothing to do with it. Thats prety tacky.

For the record, I don’t feel the hotel was negligent or was at fault for the theft. After all, thieves operate everywhere from Beverly Hills to the local roach motel. Every guest should exercise the upmost caution in safeguarding their belongings. I’m not criticizing Ms Yostos, but according to (Nathan’s post), the purse was unattended on a bench (“About 6 of us watched the man “fall” onto a bench where her purse was sitting, but none of us could believe that a theft was taking place.”) Better care could have been taken by Ms Yostos, but that does not excuse the “rudeness” of the hotel employee.

The hotel seems to acknowledge that one of its own employees did not meet the “customer service standard” of the hotel. THAT is precisely why the review should stay. That is useful information for perspective travellers to know.

Ms Yostos, (and Chris Elliott), I hope that you follow-up with Tripadvisor to find out WHY the post was removed, and insist that it remain as is. Otherwise, I will stop posting and using Tripadvisor. It is shameful that the General Manager would even “ask” to have the post removed on Tripadvisor. Its not the individual post(s) that makes me decide where to stay. I’ve stayed at plenty of properties where there was negative posts. Its the pattern of posts and the management response that dictates whether I have confidence in my future bookings. If 20 people say the rooms are small, then the rooms are probably small. If 20 people say front desk were rude, then its not an isolated incident.

Mr Roether, if you are reading this, you could have handled this better. You states that this is the first time you have heard of this. I find that disturbing. Certainly, someone in the hotel has filed an incident report. You have someone chasing after someone from your hotel, a guest (granted not an overnight guest, but still a “guest” that you have responsibility over) upset. If not one of your staff filed a report, then you have bigger problems in your hotel. Likewise, where did all the complaints that Ms Yostos filed go? Again, sounds like you have some communication problems in your employees. Your reply to the Tripadvisor post should be suffice. It explains the situation and what you are doing about it. All this doesn’t give me confidence in booking at your property when I have business in the Twin Cities area.

Chris

My 2 cents
Chris
Mary Yostos

Noah:
I’m sorry that you found my initial post on the website to be incoherent. That evening was practically a nightmare for me and my friends and a very surreal experience. I wanted to give a very brief description of what happened, and that night was very complicated and a little traumatic to explain. The only people that helped out were the valet parking staff that ran with me in the street to catch the couple and called 911 on their personal cell phones, while Alison did go to the front desk staff to call the police and got nowhere….

However my post did spark a response from the hotel as you saw above on my tripadvisor.com posting asking how they could make the situation right in my eyes about 2-3 weeks after my initial post on tripadvisor.com. After a month of correspondence, I get a response asking me to take down the post on tripadvisor.com and within 24 hrs of that request it gets removed from the website.
Brian C

And why should I trust TripAdvisor? It seems that they are now an untrustworthy source of information if they are editing posts.

Walmart has greeters who are senior citizens. In a way they also act as security. It’s not that a 75 year old man with an arthritic hip can do anything to stop a robbery in progress. But having someone watching for suspicious behavior, saying hello, and looking you in the eye deters thieves who are looking for an easy target. Having a “concierge” or “maitre d’ ” whose job it is to be alert for suspicious people in their hotel might have deterred people from walking in off the streets. Or if not, it may have aided in identifying the thieves.

Having someone who cares is also a plus.

Keep the post up, if it ever comes back.
Allison

Should be kept up, no qualifications needed, because:

1. The restaurant appears on the hotel’s website under “dining” and there is no mention that it is not a part of the hotel.

2. Thus, anyone considering staying at this hotel who cares at all regarding what dining options exist on the premises should be aware that a crime occured at this restaurant and what the hotel’s initial response was.

The fact that a more satisfactory response did not occur until after the victim in question posted on a well known review site should give anyone pause. Most people would care more about what happens on the spot, while a guest, and not what happens later.
Raven

Repost it and the follow up. It would give a fair picture of the hotel.
Chris in NC

Brian,

In general, I have found Tripadvisor to be valuable in trip planning. I take individual posts (especially negative ones) with a grain of salt, but if you look at the overall posts, it gives you a good idea of how things are going at the hotel.

For example, there is a hotel that my wife and I stay at in Atlanta GA. We have noticed that things have been going downhill over the past 2-3 years. The Tripadvisor reviews reflect this. There is a recurrent theme among recent posts, and there is consistancy with the posts. Comments like “staff unprofessional” or “uncaring staff” and “hotel is old and needs updating” are said in many different words. We 100% agree with this. Yes, there are those posts that say “great experience” and “worst hotel ever” but they are the extremes. No matter how good the hotel (5 star or beyond), there will always be someone who complains and is not happy. So, its not the individual post that matters, its the theme of the mass posts.

My wife and I stayed at a hotel in DC this fall. We had a wonderful stay. The staff was friendly and helpful, the location was great and the price was reasonable. My wife got sick on that trip and still had nothing but good things to say about the hotel. The hotel is not rated well on Tripadvisor. Why? Most of the travellers complained the “hotel is not worth the $$$ paid” because the “rooms were small” and the “location had nothing within walking distance unless you crossed a highway.” Guess what? the rooms WERE small, and unless you had a car, it was hard to walk anywhere. But, those things weren’t as important to us, as say a business traveller that didn’t have a car. Would I go back there? absolutely.

I just think some people’s expecations are just way different than mine. I am an avid photographer and have a very nice Canon DSLR camera. Does it have limitations, absolutely, even the $6000 Canon Mark II 1ds camera has posters complaining about “image quality” and “noise.” Likewise, on Tripadvisor, I see people complain about service not being good enough or the rooms not luxurious enough at the Four Seasons or Mandarin Oriental hotel. I’m curious WHAT WERE their pre-stay expectations?

Me, I’m used to Best Westerns class hotels and Marriotts, so apparently it doesn’t take much to impress me!

Come to think of it, Chris (Elliott): perhaps you should do an article on how to properly use a site like Tripadvisor to plan a trip!

Back to the original subject…
If it is proven true that Tripadvisor is deleting reviews because of vendor pressure, then it is completely worthless.
Ronda

personally I think that if the site keeps the post down, let by gones be by gones and get on with your life because even though it took them forever, they did respond, and appologized and made changes to prevent the same thing from happening again. However, if they put it back up, then I think it would be a good idea to put a new review that has the letter that was sent to you about the hotel. Becuase honestly, the incident should’nt have happened in the first place, but so many hotels ignore complaints ignore these issues, while this hotel responded. I think that is something other people should see, so that they can read the reviews and determine for themselves whether or not they’d like to stay at that hotel.
LadySiren

If it’s true that Tripadvisor is starting to bow to pressure from travel vendors, then I’ve already used the site for the last time. The reason I like Tripadvisor is it is supposed to represent “real” reviews from “real” travelers; i.e. – people who are free from the influence of the airline, hotel, restaurant, venue, whatever, and are willing to give us the bald facts.

I find it troubling that a review would suddenly disappear with no warning or explanation. Once that happens, you have to begin questioning the validity, veracity, and objectivity of the site’s management. I hope that Tripadvisor addresses these concerns ASAP before they lose all credibility whatsoever.
Katie

I actually think Chris in NC’s idea to have an article about how to properly write a hotel review is a great one. People have a variety of expectations, whether a hotel is listed as two-star or four, and it might help tone down some of the more excessive (positive or negative) posts.

I personally will never, ever read TripAdvisor if a corporation can simply ask them to remove posts whenever they want. There really is no point to the website at all then, is there? It creates a sort of weird, Big Brother atmosphere. Even if the hotel did, in their opinion, remedy the situation, TA has no way to qualify that. A hotel could be full of bugs and then say they spent thousands of dollars on extermination, but it doesn’t mean the problem never existed, and it also doesn’t mean it won’t be a problem again, OR that they ever truly DID fix it.

What I think needs to be understood is that the reviews provide insight into how the hotel is run as a whole. The person who replied to her review admits they had had problems with this employee before; so therefore, insight into management. They clearly are willing to put up with incapable employees until they cause them public embarrassment. That says much more than the simple fact that, ONE time, on ONE night, an employee failed to provide good service. I also found the tone of the response troubling in that it’s a bit too personal for my taste. Saying the delay in response was because there were so many people to track down, and “please forgive” is a bit much, almost as if he’s whining. It also turns her initial review into somewhat of a personal issue. I’d actually prefer a simple intro with a bulleted list. More professional tone to me also indicates that you are taking this complaint seriously as opposed to, “Aww man, we got a bad review, dude!”

As a side note, I have a response to people who say her story is unbelievable. Other witnesses have attested to its validity, and though I don’t know anyone involved and live thousands of miles away, almost the exact same thing happened to me once as well. I was sitting in a completely empty restaurant with my mother, when a woman and her 12-year-old daughter chose to, out of an entirely empty restaurant, sit right next to us at a table less than a foot away. My purse was next to my chair, on her side. At one point she reached down into her own bag, between our tables, and was “messing around” with it for a moment. I even thought right then that I should glance down and see what she was doing so close to my purse, but I figured I was being paranoid. Then, she and her daughter suddenly got up and walked very quickly out of the restaurant without ordering anything and barely glancing at the menus. I immediately got the bad feeling this woman’s friends described, looked in my purse, and my debit card was gone. This all happened in less than five minutes, from when they entered to when they exited. I immediately called and canceled the card (which, by the way, I had used right before we sat down ourselves and placed inside my wallet, so I’m sure I hadn’t lost it beforehand).

I wanted to share that simply because while it DOES seem unbelievable that someone would be so audacious, we often learn the hard way how desperate people become. It also does not help for others to immediately dismiss it with a, ‘Oh, that could never happen.’ Unfortunately, it does.
Jay

My guess is that even though the incident happened in the hotel via the restaurant, it’s not really a hotel review so much as telling about an incident involving one employee at the hotel with a non-guest. I’m thinking that’s why it was removed.
http://aol barbie45

So sorry for this unfortunate incident.,puts a damper on what should have been a great time;I checked TRIP ADVISOR and found 35 or 36 reviews; 17 were 5 star; most of the complaints were of the lack of it being a modern facility; the manager did respond to two complaints. For TRIPADVISOR to delete the review was wrong and the manager was wrong in asking her to delete the report; With the manager assumed responsobility for his desk personnel very honestly; In all honesty leaving a purse unattendant is not prudent; I have been guilty of it several times; and warned by some considerate people,A robbery in a guest room would be a very serious offense;yet we are responsible for guarding our wallet or purse as best we can; sometimes even the best precautions do not work.sorry again for your unpleasant experience
http://aol barbie45

Jay ; I was thinking the same thing. It was really not related to the hotel;just one incident with a disgruntled employee; I am assuming she was not a guest of the hotel,Once again, the purses were left unattendant; that is not the hotel or restaurants responsobility; shame it happened
Doug

Agree with three points made by others: (a) author should leave the original post up; I want the good and bad, (b) author should post an update if she thinks it’s appropriate, and (c) TripAdvisor should never remove a review unless the author requests it. Chris, I hope TA responds to you with an explanation.

One thing I noted is that the hotel’s response came from the Sales Manager. I would have expected it to be from the General Manager or someone else who had direct responsibility for ANY of the operations in question (restaurant, front desk, etc.).

The Sales Manager’s role is to sell – meaning that the hotel’s response appears to be based primarily on the concern that the bad review would hurt sales, not that they were really concerned about the guest’s experience. The Sales department (possibly the same person) is also the group that would have the relationship with Expedia to sell rooms through their sites (including TA). Could this have been the route through which the bad review got removed?
http://aol barbie45

no way relating to the honesty of Marys review;but I just read a review on Travel Rant a B ritish blogwritten by Darren Cranian regarding the possible legal litigation of a negative hotel review; some sites do post warnings to the writer regarding false or malicious reviews; ie if you see a Cock roach good idea to photograph it; Some contries have very srtict libel laws regarding internet postings; One of these days some muticorporation with tons of laywers could charge a person with libel; it is bound to happen; so read the sites legal policies very carefully; have not read Trip Advisors.
ken

I would say remove the posting if it hadn’t been deleted by someone else, but now that the hotel(?) or someone has removed it for her, behind her back so to speak, I think it shouldn’t be removed at all and should be put up again with a note that the hotel took unilateral action and removed her review.
Mary Yostos

These comments have been very interesting to read.

I would like to say that I was not a guest at the hotel, I was there to attend a pre-wedding party, although a book of rooms were blocked off for this specific wedding. I chose to stay at the Marriott down the block.
Our purses were on a bench right in front of us, literally…Nathan described this the best…there was this disbelief and shock watching a guy basically scooping down into my purse…and by the way ladies, I suggest getting purses with zippers…I kept replaying this over and over in my mind, angry at myself for not keeping my purse on my lap or on my shoulder, but it happened.

What I think prompted my reaction was the lack of response of the hotel to call the police. As I was running after the criminal in the street, with my friend and the valet parking crew, it was reported to the front desk manager who refused to call the police. Upon my return from my trip I wrote to the hotel on their website explaining the situation and when I got no response I posted a negative review on tripadvisor.com in late September 09, simply because I wanted to inform people this could happen again and it did happen. It wasn’t until mid-October, Mr. Roether contacted me via message on tripadvisor.com and asked that I give him full detail of the events so that he could investigate this. He did ask how I could make things right in my eyes. Being that I did not stay at the hotel, I did not ask for things like a free weekend or any sort of compensation, because my main concern was security issues at the hotel and front desk staff who were unwilling to help by picking up the phone to call the police when a crime occurred on the ‘premsis’. I did ask him to recognize his valet parking staff, because they did go above and beyond by running with me in the street, attempting to apprehend the accomplice and calling 911 from their personal cell phones. I really sought no personal gain from this.

After a month of back and forth correspondence,Mr. Roether investigated this situation and the result was the removal of the employee from dealing with guests. What ticked me off a bit was his asking for me to remove the review from the tripadvisor.com website and then within 24 hrs of that request…poof it was gone. It felt like ‘hey I investigated this and we solved some problems, now go remove your post’ type of feeling…if that sentence was not there I would not have contacted Chris Elliott.

I did email Mr. Roether expressing my suspicion to this and also pointing him to this blog. I’m a little upset that I was not given that opportunity to amend my post and that it was done behind my back. He did respond again with a sincere apology, but does not want to further discuss this since it would be subjected to a public forum.

In conclusion…I do feel Mr. Roether was sincere in trying to get to the bottom of this because it was posted on a public website. I appreciate his time and effort that went into something like this. However I do not think it’s right that after almost 2 months of a negative review getting posted, it’s suddenly removed behind my back within 24 hrs after a polite request was made for me to remove it…it’s more a matter of principle for me at this point.
http://Hotmail David Farnham

The article seems to imply that the first hotel management heard of this was from the TripAdvisor post. If so, she definitely should have communicated with hotel management while there and definitely before the post. I don’t think a comment on their website qualifies as communication with hotel management.

I post frequently on TripAdvisor and, in cases where I have had a negative experience at an establishment, I try to balance the comment with something favorable.

Finally, I have to say that if the restaurant truly was independant of the hotel, the hotel’s legal positiion appears to be correct, although obviously you’d have to look at the exact terms of the arrangement between the two to be sure.
Doug

I think the manager sounds like he made a concerted effort to meet the customer’s concerns. I would re-post my review, discuss what happened, but also indicate the outcome of the situation.

Ms. Yostos has some legitimate concerns about hotel security, and there is nothing wrong with stating that a desk clerk was unhelpful (the manager even admitted as much in his response). Being in a service industry myself, I don’t think it is up to the customer to dictate who is fired for poor performance… one bad failure doesn’t necessarily mean that employee is a cancer on the business, and it’s entirely possible for somebody who is poor with customer service can be very effective elsewhere within the company. Also, due to privacy law, frankly it is none of her business whether that employee maintains his employment with the hotel.

The response by the manager shows an adequate level of concern for her situation, but also seems to indicate the lease agreement with the restaurant and the need to remain “public” outweighs concerns about the chance of crime on the site. It does not seem unreasonable to share the hotel’s viewpoint and issues with potential customers.
Topher

I have nothing to do with the Grand Hotel, but I am an average, friendly, proud Minneapolitan. Mary, I’m sorry that you had such a negative experience in my city.

Second, the fact that TripAdvisor took down the review is very disturbing to me. I will definitely not be using them when planning future travel. I think it’s a bit ridiculous that they don’t allow amendments or edits to be made to a review once it’s posted – if they did, perhaps you wouldn’t find yourself in this situation regadrding your review.

By the way, am I the only person who thinks the response from the hotel is kind of a cop-out? I get that they want to explain their side of the story, but there’s very little in the way of a real apology for what happened. The whole thing reads like what they’re really saying, still, is, “It sucks that this happened to you but it’s still not our problem.” Whether the restaurant is separate from the hotel or not, if it’s located inside, people there are going to assume it’s a part of the hotel and they need to take responsibility for that. How about even a token credit towards a future booking? Even $25, $50 – regardless of whether Mary ever intends to use it, such a gesture would at least give the impression that they take the situation seriously and care about what happened to her.
Mary Yostos

David…after this event happened on the first evening, I did not want to set foot back in that hotel…I think all of us were shaken up after that first evening. The hotel management said they never saw my initial contact because of some technology glitch in their system.

Normally when I have a negative experience, I do email the establishment first and I get a response. I wasn’t going to sugar coat or balance my negative comment on tripadvisor.com with a positive comment since I truly had a bad experience in the hours I was there. What am I going to say ‘got robbed, bad security, oh but the lobby is beautiful’?….no…
Chantelle

I wouldn’t remove the review. Nothing in the review was false, the incident happened. Those are the things that informed traveler’s need and want to know so I’m glad she wrote it. It’s unfortunate that tripadvisor decided to remove it without her permission. If I were her I would rewrite the review and include the management response to her incident and also her feelings now about the situation.
Sarah

If nothing else, an updated review should remain on tripadvisor so that it can serve as a warning to others to keep their articles secure and prevent a similar situation in the future. Regardless of if the situation has been resolved, the incident still occured and as a potential customer, I would want to know that it could be an issue. As long as the review is updated to present the hotel’s viewpoint, neither the hotel nor tripadvisor should have any problem with keeping the review on the website.

Actually, I do post reviews on tripadvisor and do check others when I am booking hotels for work or myself, but, knowing that they can and will delete bad reviews, I don’t rely on them solely and cross check with other review sites as well.
vanessa

You have to leave feedback like that. People want to know if their belongings are at risk, and to be aware of the situation you were in, so it doesn’t repeat. Your review was fair, and i’d definitely repost it. Otherwise TripAdvisor isn’t trustworthy – if they allow outside parties to change your post, especially hotels – good grief.

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