Is this enough compensation? Southwest confiscates tickets, offers “deal” to get family home

Ray Sandoval paid $650 for his wife and two young daughters to fly from Sacramento to New York on Southwest Airlines.

No, that’s not a typo. For just $150 per person, plus a $50 service fee, the Sandovals made it all the way to Baltimore before Southwest stopped them.

Turns out their fare was too good to be true. They were using a Buddy Pass they’d bought from a Southwest employee, which was technically a no-no. But Sandoval had no way of knowing that.

Southwest offered to fly the family back to California for a discounted fare of $1,016, even as two representatives assured him he’d done “nothing wrong.” Is that enough compensation?

You might be wondering how the Sandovals got caught. Well, Buddy Passes allow you to fly on a standby basis, and technically you’re considered a “nonrevenue” passenger.

When the Sandovals kept getting bumped from their flights, they had an angry confrontation with a Southwest agent in which she insisted they get out of her way so she could take care of “paying customers” and they insisted on being treated with courtesy, because they were paying customers. When the agent saw the Buddy Passes, she suspected foul play.

“I am confiscating these four tickets,” he was told.

The agent added,

You will have to buy new tickets to the West Coast if you want to get home. I will hold four seats, at a purchase price of $254 each, a real deal, on a plane which leaves tomorrow morning.

You have until midnight tonight to decide what you want to do. That’s all I can do for you. But, let me reassure you, once again, you have done absolutely nothing wrong, Mr. and Mrs. Sandoval. This is not your fault.

She told the family they were victims of a larger scheme among some Southwest employees.

We have the name of the employee who sold these to you right on the ticket. Someone will probably lose their job. This is a rampant problem here at Southwest. You are not the first to be victimized by a Southwest employee selling these Standby/Buddy Pass tickets. It is a huge problem here.

Sandoval sees things differently. In his view, he had been dealing with Southwest all along, even when he bought the Buddy Pass from a rogue employee. Southwest had taken his money, then confiscated his ticket and charged him again for the same flight.

A Southwest employee assured him the airline was bending over to accommodate him by offering a lower fare for his return flight, and urged him to “let it go.”

But he can’t.

“How can an airline like Southwest treat its customers so unprofessionally?” he asks. “How can Southwest confiscate tickets purchased by a customer?”

Southwest responds

I suggested Sandoval send a brief, polite email to a manager at Southwest, explaining his position.

Here’s how it replied:

Thank you for the opportunity to talk with you recently by telephone about your travel using Southwest Airlines Buddy Passes.

While we can certainly understand your frustration regarding the situation, as I explained to you on the telephone, it is a violation of Company policy for an Employee to sell their Buddy Passes.

The terms of usage indicate (on the reverse side of each Buddy Pass) that the pass is the property of Southwest Airlines and must be surrendered upon request. In this instance, once we become aware that the Buddy Passes being presented for travel were purchased, our Agent confiscated the tickets and further travel would not be permitted using them.

When you requested the chance to purchase a ticket in Baltimore, the only option for purchase for immediate travel was at our Anytime Fare.

As a courtesy to you and your family, our Employee offered you a discounted fare which was no longer available. Since I was not present, I am unable to confirm what pricing was mentioned, but you were ultimately charged $153.00 less per person, or $612.00 total, than our full Anytime Fare. We are unable to do anything further to reduce the amount you paid to return home.

Nevertheless, I regret that you were disappointed with the Customer Service provided by our Employees in Baltimore. We expect our Employees to be helpful, kind and compassionate to all Customers, regardless of what they paid (or did not pay) for a ticket.

Again, we apologize if you are disappointed in us. To be quite honest, pass holders assume all risks associated with the use of the pass. Whether flying again as a nonrevenue pass holder or as a fare-paying Customer, it would be our pleasure to welcome you onboard one of our flights soon.

In other words, sorry — but we’ve done enough.

What do you think?

A quick poll of more than 500 readers this morning found that a slim majority (55 percent) believe Southwest has done enough.

  • flutiefan

    i’ll answer some questions here. i am looking at a SWA Buddy Pass right now (roomie was an employee).

    First of all, it is PURPLE. The front says “Buddy Pass” no fewer than 3 times. It also has a space to mark “with employee/without employee”, and says “space available” right at the top. The back states the rules quite clearly, and Rule #1 is underlined: “This pass is valid for space available (standby) travel only”. Rule #8, right next to #1 also has underlined portion and says: “This pass has no cash value; it cannot be sold, refunded, upgraded, exchanged, extended, reissued, or used toward payment of other tickets.” Pretty straightforward to me.

    Furthermore, you 100% absolutely CANNOT purchase a buddy pass from any official SWA portal: telephone reservation, ticket counter at the airport, nor their website southwest.com. These are paper tickets issued to the employees, which the employee has sole possession of. The employee has to physically had you a ticket –and not anywhere near other employees, lest they get caught– in order for you to travel.

    Maybe the Sandoval got their tickets secondhand, from a friend of the SWA employee who thought they would profit on the side. Maybe the employee did sell it. I would hope that every employee would go over the rules of the passes to anyone using them, knowing that their job is at stake. Unfortunately, roomie says this isn’t always so, and employees have been fired for the behavior of their pass-users. (Rule #7: Customers using passes are expected to behave discreetly and professionally at all times so as not to draw attention to themselves or to their status as pass holders. Pass holders are expected to quietly comply with the instructions of working Southwest Personnel and not distract from the service provided to our revenue Customers.” OP totally broke that one.) Roomie also says coworkers have been fired when they’ve given a pass to a friend, and that friend has sold it, and the passenger mentions that they “paid good money for this ticket”. Even had to do it personally.

    SWA says the OP did nothing wrong. I think they did, to give cash/check/paypal to someone other than SWA (or legit travel agent) in order to buy a ticket at a crazy cheap price. One look at the pass and it’s obvious it’s not a regular ticket.
    It’s PURPLE for, pete’s sake!

  • Jesse

    @Brian C: the scenario you are presenting with a vehicle purchase and tickets purchased for travel are completely different and should not be compared. One is a service and one is property.

    This one is would be too hard to mediate. If Sandoval knew that the transaction he was making was illegal, he has nothing to say about it and should just take the loss and pay up for his return tickets.

    If he actually was taken by the employee, maybe Southwest could have tried to be a little more accommodating and given a better price then to Mr. Sandoval.

    A quick search on Craigslist shows that Southwest passes are being sold for a firm amount (300 Round Trip and 140 One Way) so this really is a problem for Southwest and that should probably be looked at by them.

    Regardless at this point it is done. Southwest in good faith could provide buddy passes to Mr. Sandoval to hopefully make them happy customers otherwise they will probably try to avoid SWA for life. At this point it wouldn’t be rewarding them for what they have done but just try to make them feel appreciated (passes can only be redeemed if there is room on the flight so SWA is not taking a hit on this).

  • DeVon

    I have used buddy passes to fly on a different airline, so I know how they work. Southwest didn’t have to do anything for this guy. Buddy passes are given to an employee to give away to family and friends so they can fly for free, although it’s on a standby basis. He would have never got caught if he didn’t open his mouth and tell them he purchased the passes , because they are not to be sold. The employee wanted to make a few coins, and the guy saved alot of money than if he purchased an actual airline ticket. He should have just chilled out and not made a scene. I am sure he knew what he was doing when he purchased them, so do not pass go…do not collect $200.

  • noah

    Wow, I’m usually pretty anti-consumer here, but I come out fully on the side of the consumer. While the value of the case is not likely enough for a lawsuit, I have no doubt the Sandovals would prevail in court if they went there. Apparently, the SWA employee sold them this pass claiming to have authority from SWA to do so. SWA disclaims that authority, but the Sandovals had no way to know that at the time they made the purchase. In most states, the law of apparent authority would almost certainly bind SWA to the deal. It’s SWA’s job to control its own employees.

    I’d suggest going to small claims court, except that SWA probably just won’t show up and won’t pay the judgment.

  • http://gottogovacationrentals.com Dave

    I think Southwest did more than they should have. If the ticket price is that out of line with what you can normally buy, you know the transaction isn’t on the up and up.

  • Sarah

    Unless this employee was working the ticket counter then you are wrong Noah. That is not how liability works in the law.

  • Andre K.

    I think SWA should have flown the family home and just put the burden back onto the employee who wrongfully sold them the tickets.

  • Steve

    @Brian C: I don’t think your stolen car analogy is perfect, either. The clear difference here is that Southwest did not lose money when the employee chose to sell the buddy passes, since the passes were already valid for free travel. (Moreover, in your hypothetical scenario, it would have been just as illegal for one person to give away another person’s car for free as it would be to sell another person’s car; that’s not true here. As far as I can tell, SW employees can give away the passes for free, no problem).

    The bottom line is this: demonstrate to me how Southwest was harmed by this employee selling his buddy passes, and I’ll be more sympathetic to them. I’m not seeing it, though. There was absolutely nothing illegal about what these travelers did; nor was the employee’s decision to sell them illegal. It was against SW’s rules, of course, and on that basis I have no problem with seeing this employee punished, as severely as SW deems appropriate. But when it comes to this family’s case: how is it any worse for SW that they bought the passes than if they’d been given them for free, which is totally within the rules?

  • Mike Z

    @Steve, you are correct as the airline already issued these tickets for FREE travel. I keep reading “illegal” and other words implying that the OP was scamming someone. First, it is not illegal for an employee to give these tickets away. (there is no law they will be prosecuted for) This is why they are called “buddy passes”. They would be called employee passes and require ID to fly if they were only for the employee. Also, you eluded to a box on the ticket that you check if someone was using them unaccompanied. Right there shows that these are meant for non emloyees who may travel without an employee.

    Second, I keep seeing that the OP knew they were wrong. Well if they are buddy passes, you know that they are for travel anywhere, but may not have realized that giving someone money for them would result in confiscation. Also, if they knew the deal, then they wouldn’t have complained in Baltimore. They would have just taken the train to NYC and flown back on the tickets.

    And as usual, people keep thinking that the OP bought tickets from SWA. What they did was buy tickets that were free to be given away. Everything has cash value to someone. if the employee needed money for his rent, then why not make a little extra $$, especially when the CEO is making millions and you are making $8 an hour. You were given the tickets as part of your benefits package, so make some cash.

    Last, SWA says in their response that the OPs were not at fault, so if the company acknowledges that they did nothing wrong, why do people on this board continue to say they did? not paying attention?

  • flutiefan

    “How does it hurt SWA?” SWA likely lost revenue, since it is feasible that the OP would’ve purchased tickets on SWA if they hadn’t come across the Buddy Passes. (Not a guarantee of course, which is why SWA didn’t go after the OP to pay back the portion that he already flew, and SWA isn’t going after a lawsuit or damages.)
    Whether the OP knew or not, ignorance isn’t bliss and SWA was well within their rights to follow their own policy. It’s not SWA’s fault that someone broke the rules. Illegal or not per state/federal law, it was a clear violation of stated SWA policy, which is written directly on the ticket.

    and Mike Z (“if they knew the deal, then they wouldn’t have complained in Baltimore”), that is SO not true. You would not BELIEVE the number of people who act irrationally even knowing they’re on Buddy Passes. Cursing, throwing things, slamming the counter…seen it all.

  • flutiefan

    For what it’s worth, the Manager NEVER states that the OP “did nothing wrong” (that was the agent in BWI, who clearly misspoke or made a mistake, if you believe the OPs version), and in fact apologized for the BWI agents.

    Nowhere in the written response (which is the only thing that cannot be distorted by “versions” of the facts) does SWA say the OP is not at fault.

    That’s all stated by the OP, not by SWA. Food for thought.

  • DJP

    There are details t this that are missing.

    1. How did Sandoval get the tickets…were they purchased from someplace that seemed legit like a SWA ticket counter or travel agent or were they purchased under the tabel?

    If they were purchased from someplace he thought were legit then there is an expectation on the airlines and Sandoval and his family are innocent people in the middle of this.

    2. How Southwest handled this after confiscating the buddy passes.

    They do not know the passanger history. They could be friends with them and the emploee really gifted them the tickets but because the Sandovals dont travel much they had no idea of the ins and outs of these tickets.

    Could a ticketing agent did this as an end around the system in trying to rebook them on a cancelled flight?

    Sotuthwest reaction is that thesepassangers were on on it. What they are in essence doing is abandoning the passangers…this isnt anything different that United did this to people onto Denver where they were forced to detour to Cheyemme and Scottsbluff only to discover their plane left them in the morning.

    There is an expectation that if you are traveling from A to B and back that you will get back.

    What Southwest should have done is to have them cooperate with their investigation and get them home without holding a gun to their heads and robbing them of $1000.

  • John

    There is only one circumstance that I can envision under which the OP should be entitled to receive anything from Southwest. And that situation would be if the OP went to the ticket counter at WN, spoke to an agent in uniform, and purchased what he thought were legitimate tickets, while the agent pocketed the money. If this was the case, then yes, I think that not only is WN liable, but also that agent should go to jail. But…we don’t really know what the circumstances of the OP’s purchse were. My guess is someone offered to make a deal with him and he was stupid enough to fall for it.

  • Kevin

    There are three ways to look at this:
    1) The OP bought the “tickets” honestly and did not know that they were getting them against the rules.
    2) They knew what they were doing was wrong BUT given that it is the airline that actually provides their employees with this option, it is the employee that should pay the added expense.
    3) They knew what they were doing was wrong and it is on the OP to pay the added expense.

    If the OP bought the tickets honestly, then this is a no brainer. BUT we were not given that information.
    Assuming that that portion was left out on purpose, and that they knowingly purchased these “tickets” from a friend, then we get to options 2 & 3. Personally, I’m a believer that the airline gave these to their employees as a perk and if they get abused, then they need to take it out on the employee, not the customer.

  • Brian C

    @Steve

    “@Brian C: I don’t think your stolen car analogy is perfect, either. The clear difference here is that Southwest did not lose money when the employee chose to sell the buddy passes, since the passes were already valid for free travel. (Moreover, in your hypothetical scenario, it would have been just as illegal for one person to give away another person’s car for free as it would be to sell another person’s car; that’s not true here. As far as I can tell, SW employees can give away the passes for free, no problem).”

    I completely disagree; Southwest is out the full fare this family would have paid had they purchased their tickets through legitimate channels. Regardless if these passes were sold on a “space available” basis only there is opportunity cost for SW. If the Sandovals had purchased their tickets on SW they would have paid more than the buddy pass rate.

    You can rationalize that “SW” accounted for these passes to be used by the employee all day long, but at the end of the day SW is out money because these are paying customers would otherwise would have bought full fare tickets directly from the airline.

    @Jesse

    “@Brian C: the scenario you are presenting with a vehicle purchase and tickets purchased for travel are completely different and should not be compared. One is a service and one is property.”

    My car analogy may not be perfect and yes one is a physical item and one is a service but isn’t theft of property not equally as illegal as theft of services?

    @Jeanne in NE

    My apologies, I assumed this was a “Vote Yes if I should mediate this” pole.

  • Steve

    @Brian C: “I completely disagree; Southwest is out the full fare this family would have paid had they purchased their tickets through legitimate channels. Regardless if these passes were sold on a “space available” basis only there is opportunity cost for SW. If the Sandovals had purchased their tickets on SW they would have paid more than the buddy pass rate.”

    My point is that the revenue from the buddy passes is $0 for Southwest under any circumstances in which they’re used. If this family had received them as a gift, for free, from a Southwest employee (which is perfectly allowable under SW’s own rules), SW would have earned $0 from them. (For that matter, if this family had paid the employee $10,000 for the passes, SW still would have received $0 for them). Of course SW would have earned more money if this family had paid the going rate for airfare – that’s not in dispute. But that fact is only relevant if the buddy passes themselves were invalid.

    The bottom line for me is this: if someone decides to give me something for $X (or in this case for free), and they are comfortable with that transaction, why should they then be allowed to tell me that I cannot subsequently resell it at a profit? What business is it of theirs what I do with what they gave me?

    I can understand why SW doesn’t want a large secondary market in buddy passes to exist and undercut their ticket prices. That’s perfectly reasonable. To me, that market tells me that they’re too generous in the buddy passes they provide to their employees and that they should cut back on those.

  • EllenB

    I think Southwest is acting very inappropriately here, and I would take them to small claims court over this, on the basis of Southwest’s poor fraud protection being at fault for this situation. If this was a clearly forged ticket, then the purchaser would be out of luck. But Sandoval had a valid standby ticket, which, yes, was sold to him in violation of company policies, but was still a valid ticket. It should not have been confiscated by Southwest. Pursue the employee that sold the ticket? Yes, of course. Invalidate the ticket, no.

  • DJP

    @Steve

    “The bottom line for me is this: if someone decides to give me something for $X (or in this case for free), and they are comfortable with that transaction, why should they then be allowed to tell me that I cannot subsequently resell it at a profit? What business is it of theirs what I do with what they gave me?”

    Based on this logic you are saying then its legal to download songs off of iTunes for say 99 cents and then set up your own web site where you then re-sell these songs for 10 cents each to as many buysers as can show up ?????

    I do believe you should be able to resell your tickets to someone else or transfer the name on the ticket for a nominal fee.

    @Brain C….the rules on these buddy passes are very open on who they can be transfered to in order to use. How the Sandovals got the passes is irrelevent. Southwest needs to take care of the source of this problem rather than blame the passangers. There is no evidence that they even paid for the tickets….as politicains operate…this is no different than when those in congress get contributions or other perks for putting clauses in legislation. Sandavals could say the money they paid was a thank you gift and not for the tickets….so Southwest doe not have the right to kill their travel since it is a legit way to travel.

    Southwest needs to address the employees on how this buddy system is implemeneted. They could put restrictions in where this is only used by immediate family members (parents, children, grandparents, grandkids, aunts/uncles and their children, or nieces/nephewes).

  • http://thevacationstop.com Steve M.

    I like the idea that Southwest should have allowed them to continue their trip and then garnish the wages of the employee that sold the pass for the value of the airfare. Once the money was reimbursed, fire the worker.

  • James Barnes

    I can’t believe some of these answers. They are not going to win in small claims court. On what grounds would they sue? They are a space available / Non-Revenue (Non-Rev) Ticket. They they were sold to this family the employee should have made sure they clearly understood the rules. They have been around for years. This family might have also paid Southwest. I don’t know how Southwest Buddy Passes work but US Airways buddy passes cost 10% of the cost of unrestricted airfare.

    Even if they were free….its still the employees responsibility to ensure that the people using the passes behave.

  • Raven

    @Tricia:
    Why make special efforts for “a family with small children?” Don’t you realize that other people have places to be, too? I was once gypped by a gate agent. My flight was cancelled on a Thanksgiving weekend a loooong time ago, and it was the airline’s fault. The gate agent lined up the entire flight, first the elderly, then people with small kids, then special needs people, then couples, and single travelers were pushed to the back of the line, no matter what our airline status. The agents then began giving out vouchers for hotel rooms and food. I saw a family of four–two adults, two small kids–get FOUR ROOMS. When they got to us, they were “out” of vouchers. Stay classy, Delta.
    Anyway, I HATE hearing “oh, I’d accommodate them because they have small children.” Keep the playing field fair, please. Just because I don’t feel the need to procreate doesn’t make me any less of a customer.

  • Carver

    @Steve

    “The bottom line for me is this: if someone decides to give me something for $X (or in this case for free), and they are comfortable with that transaction, why should they then be allowed to tell me that I cannot subsequently resell it at a profit? What business is it of theirs what I do with what they gave me?”
    ===========

    Actually Steve, there are any number of counter examples. Like any transaction there are terms and conditions which you accept as part of the deal. Try reselling food stamps or any other non-cash public assistance. Highly illegal

  • drrc

    @DJP there are two main reasons why airlines do not allow their employees to sell their passes

    1- The situation you see here. There is no way for the airline to be sure that the employee gives the purchaser all of the restrictions of the ticket. With travel agencies if they fail to advise the purchaser all of the restricions with the ticket the airline can and will go after the agency with a debit memo or even go as far as to strip them of the right to sell their ticket stock.

    2- Tax liability. If the employees are allowed to sell their passes they then need to pay to the government the applicable taxes. Since these transactions would be under the table there is no way to be sure exactly what was paid to the employee so that the government can collect their due. Several online travel agencies are being sued because they have been only paying occupancy taxes based on their contracted bulk rate with hotels and not based on the rate that the guest actually paid to them.

  • http://thirtysomethinggrad.wordpress.com andi330

    @DJP – There actually IS evidence that the passenger paid for the tickets. He said so in his original complaint to Chris. Apparently, he also said so to the SWA employees, when he complained that he kept getting bumped, which is also in the OP. The SWA employee explained to the customer when he complained, that he kept getting bumped because he was not a paying customer, at which point the OP told the SWA employee that he WAS a paying customer. It was then that the employee confiscated the tickets.

    I’ve never seen an SWA buddy pass, but if flutiefan’s description is accurate they don’t look anything like a real ticket (I’ve never had a purple airline ticket have you) and they state very clearly on the pass that they are not for sale. If the OP had simply kept quiet about purchasing the pass, SWA would likely not have known, and would have let him complete his flight. He told them he purchased them, which is why they got confiscated.

    I didn’t vote because I couldn’t decide if this customer deserved anything or not. Certainly, the employee who sold the passes to him shouldn’t have. That’s a matter for SWA to deal with and a whole separate issue really. I find it hard to believe that the OP really didn’t know he wasn’t buying his tickets from SWA. SWA does not sell buddy passes, so he would not have been able to purchase them from SWA’s website or a ticket counter. In fact, either Chris edited the customer’s letter or the OP completely left out how he purchased the passes. It seems more likely to me that he bought the tickets either from someone he knows or off a site like ebay or craigslist. If the latter, he should have known better. You can’t buy real plane tickets from a site like that.

  • Phil Kipnis

    Simple… they state standby, they also state that they are bound by the terms on the ticket that is quite specific. The end user (not customer as they did not pay Southwest for passage) failed to read or by their own admission follow the guidelines. Southwest could have had them prosecuted for fraud or possession of stolen property. The employee was stealing from his employer by selling what was not a salable item. It goes on and on, both sides taking positions. The real answer is read the terms on the ticket. If you don’t meet them than good luck. Had it been United, Delta, US Air or American they would have called the cops and then charged them with full WALK UP round trip fairs and likely got it in court. Wake up people, if it smells bad it’s bad…..

  • Tom

    They need to sue to employee who sold them the worthless tickets. Might be tough to collect because he likely no longer has a job.

    Going after Southwest would be like suing Sony claiming that the TV you bought stolen from one of their truckers was defective.

  • BucksterSF

    “”I like the idea that Southwest should have allowed them to continue their trip and then garnish the wages of the employee that sold the pass for the value of the airfare. Once the money was reimbursed, fire the worker.”

    Absolutely the right solution. The employee knew the rules and should pay. Then fired.

  • Adele

    The “fair” way to handle this would have been to fly the passengers home at the walk-up fare, and deduct the full price of the fare from the employee’s paycheck.

  • noah

    “Unless this employee was working the ticket counter then you are wrong Noah. That is not how liability works in the law.”

    –sigh. I don’t really want to get into a legal argument, but if the SWA employee held himself out as an agent of SWA and the SWA didn’t do anything to prevent him from doing so, that is exactly how liability works in the law.

  • David Z

    didn’t do anything to prevent him from doing so

    Or “reasonably” couldn’t?

  • Steve

    @Carver: “Actually Steve, there are any number of counter examples. Like any transaction there are terms and conditions which you accept as part of the deal. Try reselling food stamps or any other non-cash public assistance. Highly illegal.” But accepting food stamps or other government assistance is not the same as purchasing a product. The reason it’s illegal to resell food stamps, etc, is that they’re provided by the taxpayer and are subject to need. I see what you’re saying, but I’m speaking strictly of transactions between a consumer and a business.

    I know that many businesses impose additional terms and conditions on purchases, but IMHO those terms are often unreasonable, and I question whether they should be legal.

    @DJP: “Based on this logic you are saying then its legal to download songs off of iTunes for say 99 cents and then set up your own web site where you then re-sell these songs for 10 cents each to as many buysers as can show up ?????” No, because the salient difference is that in your example you’re talking about something akin to counterfeiting. That would be like saying that it’s okay for a SW employee to make copies of his buddy passes and sell them. Of course I don’t believe that is legal or ethical.

    The kind of thing I’m talking about is this: I buy a CD at the store for $10. I later sell that CD for $15 (and I didn’t make a copy of it beforehand, so I no longer possess it in any way). That’s perfectly legal and acceptable (though I’m sure the RIAA would love to clamp down on that, too, as clueless and hostile as they are to consumers). The CD became mine when I paid for it at the store, and I have the right to transfer it to another person should I want to. I can give it away or I can sell it for as much as they’ll pay me.

    I don’t think this particular case is worth trying to sue over, or perhaps even worth Chris intervening, but only because Southwest did take steps to accommodate the customer here. I think charging them a discounted fare for the trip home is a reasonable solution.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Tom – “They need to sue to employee who sold them the worthless tickets. Might be tough to collect because he likely no longer has a job.”
    - – - – - – - – -
    The tickets were good. The tickets became worthless because (1) the Southwest employee sold the ticket and (2) the Sandovals mentioned that they paid money for non-revenue tickets.

    If the Sandovals read the terms that are clearly printed on the Buddy passes BEFORE paying for them, they would have know that they were entering into an “illegal” transaction since an Southwest employee was selling them.

    If the Sandovals read the terms on the Buddy passes AFTER they purchased them, they shouldn’t have stated that they paid money for these Buddy passes.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Adele – “The “fair” way to handle this would have been to fly the passengers home at the walk-up fare, and deduct the full price of the fare from the employee’s paycheck.”
    - – - – - – - -
    The easiest solution for Southwest and any other airlines that give free tickets (i.e. Buddy Passes) to their employees is to eliminate them. Of course, this isn’t fair to the employees that follow the rules.

    Another solution is 1) to take the fare difference from the employee’s paycheck or benefits (i.e. 401k, pension, profit sharing, bonus, etc.); 2) the employee is fired; 3) the employee loses their pension, company matched funds for 401k\etc;

    I know that this is severe but it make some of these rules breakers to think twice about selling some buddy passes for a few hundreds if they are going to lose their pension, etc. I am sure that the unions will be opposed to by using the line that if the airline pays their members more money then these employees won’t be forced to sell their Buddy passes.

  • David Z

    but IMHO those terms are often unreasonable, and I question whether they should be legal.

    Unfortunately only a judge from a court of competent jurisdiction can truly answer that, short of explicitly violating any applicable law. Contract law, though, is very flexible.

    Somewhat to be expected, many (if not all) legal agreements put the provider in a stronger position over the consumer. If anything, lawyers try to write them that (hopefully) won’t alienate judges if ever they come to dispute.

  • SA

    Southwest owes these passengers absolutely nothing. The passengers are wrong for purchasing the passes, and for misbehaving at the gate. And if they didn’t read the wording and rules on the passes…well, they are just too stupid to be traveling!!

  • flutiefan

    If Chris likes, I can send a picture of the actual buddy pass, so everyone can see what it looks like.

    @Steve “The CD became mine when I paid for it at the store, and I have the right to transfer it to another person should I want to.”: What about the fact that the buddy pass explicitly states : “This pass is the property of Southwest Airlines and must be surrendered upon request.” The pass was never the property of the Sandovals, according to the terms & conditions of the ticket itself. They may have thought they were, but again ignorance doesn’t excuse them.

    The fact is, if they’d behaved properly, this wouldn’t have happened at all. SWA agents don’t confiscate tickets lightly.

  • visionmaster88

    I work for swa and the fact that they made it out of smf to bwi, tells me one thing, they knew what they were doing because they had to have been told in smf at the ticket counter or gate that there names were added to the standby list when they checked in. if you thought you had bought confirmed tickets would you not at that point say, what do you mean i’am standby i paid for a seat !

  • flutiefan

    Exactly @visionmaster88! On SWA buddy passes, they were either added to the list at the ticket counter or the gate. The ONLY person who could issue an actual boarding pass is the gate agent, and usually not until 10 minutes before departure. Even if the flight was barely full and they were cleared right away, didn’t the family find it odd that they HAD to see a gate agent to get their boarding passes? Most people know you can get your boarding pass online or at the ticket c ounter or the self-serve kiosk. NOT Buddy Passes on SWA. Again, ONLY a gate agent can release and issue boarding passes for those tickets. So they HAD to have known that their tickets were not regular revenue tix.

    And like I’ve said before, THEY’RE PURPLE PAPER TICKETS! So obviously not regular tix.

  • Anonymous

    This is Truly Rediculous.  If the passengers had no prior knowledge then they should not be penalized by having to pay more for the fare.  What if they have no more money and now they are stranded?  The employee who sold the tickets should be penalized or dealt with accordingly.  If I were to rewrite the policy here is what I would do.  If an employee was caught fraudulently selling buddy passes, and the passengers were unaware’s then I would confiscate the buddy passes, but then I would immediatly issue the tickets neccessary for the passengers to get where they needed to go for free.  Then I would turn around and charge the Bill to the employee that knowingly did it.   I think the scam would stop quick fast and in a hurry and customer relations would remain in good standing.   First time offence, the employee is charged the cost of the tickets out of their pay with a warning.  Second offence the employee pays for full fare price for all passengers plus the amount they made off those tickets.  3rd offense Employee pays for the cost of the tickets and is subject to termination.  If the employee refuses to pay or will not work out a payment plan with financial department then they are subject to termination.  I wouldn’t worry much as to whether the customers had prior knowledge or not because if you take care of it at the employee level then customer relations remain good, the company dosn’t have extra headace’s and the employees will see the example and wont offer it to the customer’s anyway’s.  Problem solved.

  • Anonymous

    This shows that American is lost their moral value now. It means people thinks that it is okay to buy stolen items as long as cheap. No guilty and no shame at all. If somebody sells something below market price, there should be something fishy. Especially this case, I don’t think those tickets are valid.

  • y_p_w

    Here’s a photo of a set that someone tried to sell in 2008:

    http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/southwest-airlines-buddy-pass-travel-anywhere

  • y_p_w

    I’m not sure why I’m revisiting such an old article except that it came up near the top in the “you might like” section.

    I remember flying standby before. I had a relative who was a travel agent and could get us some of those from the occasional ticket agent.  They were never resold, but we knew we were flying standby and never complained.  It always meant getting to the airport early and fortunately we never got bumped.  Typically if the flight was nowhere near being full, we got a seat assignment immediately.

    I just recently flew Southwest, and I got to the airport a little bit later than I would have normally hoped to be there.  I took the chance to use the facilities since the “A” group was boarding and I was in the “C” group.  By the time I back to the line, there were ample warnings that the flight was full and that any ticketed passenger who didn’t get in line 10 minutes before the scheduled departure would get bumped off in favor of a standby passenger.  There was a line of standby passengers who were probably hoping that some poor schmuck made a mistake.

  • vmacd

    The interesting comment here is the employee who said this is a “rampant problem” at Southwest.  It’s one thing for someone to be scammed by a rogue employee, it’s another for a company not to be accountable for transgressions by a number of employees. If this is indeed a rampant problem at SW and they are not doing all they can to rectify the problem and protect their customers, then they should be held accountable, not the passengers.

  • ajaynejr

    Regrettably tickets purchased from unofficial sources can turn out to be bogus. Even Disney confiscates tickets that it considers improperly obtained (I came to this page from a Christopher Elliott page entitled “Even Disney makes mistakes”.

    When the tickets are found to ge in violation of Disney’r rules, the guest is stuck with buying new tickets.

  • Chris Mcnulty

    I am a former airline employee. I went to law school afterward.

    As I see it they deserve nothing. I doubt they didn’t know they purchased employee passes..

    At most, the only “beef” they have is with the Southwest employee.

  • Allie

    Though the situation does dictate that the family had violated their pass rules, how are the recipients supposed to know that they are in violation. I was treated the exact same way in the Oklahoma City airport and told I wasn’t important because I didn’t pay. It was a gifted ticket, which is allowed, but if Southwest says they care about their customers, they should realize the way they treat any customer, negatively or positively, reflects their business. In this case it was poorly. Southwest may not owe non-revenue passengers a flight, but they sure as heck owe people common decency.

  • Angry Customer

    My experience with Buddy Passes had been positive until my flight out of the Oklahoma City Airport. I had arrived for a 6:30 am flight at 4:30 am to ensure that I was the first passenger on the standby list. Upon entering the airport, there were about thirty others in front waiting to check in. After a 30 minute delay of the staff opening the ticketing counters late, the groups in front were beginning to get frustrated. The SW ticket agents finally arrived and began the check-in process. After getting to the booth, I was told that my reservation for a standby seat had not been saved, although a reservation specialist had confirmed my seat for the flight. I tried to reserve a seat at the counter but was physically moved to the side by the supervisor and told to, “wait my turn so all of the real paying customers could be attended to first”. I didn’t think much of the comment at first and waited for 20 minutes without any assistance. As the time passed, more and more “paying” passengers arrived and were allowed to check-in before me. The same supervisor told me to re-enter the line behind 50 new customers. I had already been waiting to check-in for an hour and continued to be pushed back to the end of the line. Finally, I politely tapped the supervisor on the shoulder and asked him, “Why is it that every other customer gets to go in front of me when I have been waiting an hour?” The supervisor snapped at me and said “who do you think you are thinking you deserve priority when you paid nothing for that Buddy Pass?” Shocked at his response I politely yet assertively said “excuse me sir?”. Upon saying that, the man approached me, told me that he was confiscating my ticket on the grounds that I had given him “lip”. I am a 20 year old woman and by no means should a customer service representative ever consider the questions of a customer “sass” or “lip”. That is the terminology you use when referring to a child, not an adult, as I am. I told the man “There is no reason for you to confiscate my ticket, I was simply asking a question”. He informed me that I had “violated the terms of the ticket and that authorized him to take the pass”. Not only did not inform me of any way I had broken the rules of the pass, but he proceded to rip the ticket from my hand and walk away saying “if you want to talk to me, you can step to the side and not take that tone with me”. Now in tears, and again shocked, I immediately called my mother and asked what I could do. I went to the supervisor with my mother on speakerphone listening to the whole conversation, as he proceeded to attempt to discipline me for actions HE accused me of. My mother was appalled and tried to reason with the supervisor by asking his name and employee number, a request he rejected. He basically chewed me out saying that I was an entitled freeloader who should expect no decent treatment because of my non-revenue status. I told him plainly, “is this your idea of quality customer service, because it is not, in any way appropriate.” He responded with “Oh so you think YOU are going to tell me what good customer service is?” and walked away and threatened to call airport security on me if I didn’t leave the airport immediately. As I began to walk out in tears, humiliated in front of hundreds of other passengers, he told me “if you want to get your ticket back, get your father on the phone and he can talk directly to me”. Again, this is a disgustingly inappropriate demand for an adult woman. I am a capable adult and should not have to respond to a threat from an employee to “tell on me” to my parents. For all he knows, I could be on a standby flight to attend his funeral! Needing a flight back, I complied and called my father. He called the supervisors direct line and kept me on as a silent conference call so I could hear what lies the man passed along to my father. The conversation began with “this is the supervisor at OKC airport and we have your daughter here and there’s no real concern, she will be flying with us today.” Upon hearing that, it became very apparent that not only had I not done anything wrong, but this employee was abusing his position to intimidate and harass a customer. After careful review of Southwest’s customer treatment policies, I discovered that it is in their bylaws to never use a position of authority to intimidate or dismiss clients. This blatant bullying almost stopped me from making my flight home, but also came about for no apparent reason. I was utterly appalled at how I was treated and while walking through security, in tears, the TSA agent asked me if I was alright. I told him that a Southwest employee had harassed me at the ticket counter. Without hesitation, he said “I bet you’re talking about Greg, the supervisor, right?”. He mentioned how he had heard several complaints about his customer service and his history with being rude to customers. After landing home, I called Customer Service in Dallas to report the incident to higher officials. They told me that “because I was a non-revenue passenger, anything I wanted to report would jeopardize the job of the employee who had given me the ticket”. I was gifted the ticket by my aunt who works for southwest and is allowed to purchase the tickets for companion flyers. I asked the customer service assistant what I could do, and he basically told me nothing unless I wanted to have “negative consequences” for my aunt, meaning termination. I am EXTREMELY disappointed in how the customer service center responded because they essentially supported the actions of a verbally abusive employee and threatened my aunt’s employment for not keeping my mouth shut about the incident. I postulated the situation that if I were to be physically harassed or assaulted if the company would do anything about the situation. To my surprise, the man responded, “he didn’t physically assault you, so let’s not even go into what-ifs”. I told him that what he did to me was publicly humiliate me and verbally assaulted me”, and he said, “if you would like to file a report, I should remember that my aunt’s employment could be jeopardized.” In summary, I was not in violation of any of the terms of the ticket, was verbally assaulted, and degraded by a Southwest employee based on the status of my valid flyer’s coupon, and was still told by a customer service expert that I was wrong.