Do I deserve a refund for a hotel shower that didn’t work?

Showers not included? / Photo by Muig - Flickr
The Hotel Universo in Florence, Italy, describes itself as a “hyper-modern” property where you can be surrounded by “bright colors and pop art-inspired prints.”

Presumably, that also includes working showers.

But when Ben Backes checked in for a recent three-day stay, he found that might have been asking for too much.

“Our first morning there we noticed the shower valve handle was stiff and hard to move,” he says. “The second morning it broke right off.”

Backes called the front desk right away. A hotel representative said the Universo was fully booked, so his family couldn’t be moved to a different room.

“Then they sent a porter up to try to pound it back in place,” he says. “That didn’t work. Later, they informed us they couldn’t fix it.”

He decided to accept the fact that his room didn’t have a shower. (Would you go without showering for two days in Florence? Well, I grew up a few hours’ drive north of Florence, and I can tell you the locals probably didn’t think it was a big deal to skip a shower. But I digress.)

He decided to wait until the day of his departure to resolve the problem. And here’s what happened next:

When I went to check out I asked the front desk if they would lower our bill because we couldn’t shower for two days of our stay.

The response was less than friendly.

The owners were upset about the shower, which they said had worked when we arrived. He intimated that we broke it intentionally and not only would they not refund any money but I should count my lucky stars they weren’t charging me for repairs.

Nobody did anything improper with that handle. It was simply worn out.

Wow. If the hotel thing doesn’t work out, I’m sure they can always open a car rental franchise.

Shower handles break — it’s called wear and tear. If Backes were a rock musician, I might see things the hotel’s way. But we was taking his nephew and niece on a high-school graduation trip to Italy. Come on.

What does Bakes want?

At the time I checked out, I probably would have been satisfied if they shaved 50 euros off the bill. But because of their “customer service” I wouldn’t mind more.

The whole bill for three nights was right about 500 euros. But I don’t know, this is my first time having a problem like this… I don’t what would be a fair trade for six showers.

Neither do I.

I think this problem might have been handled (no pun intended) differently. Having 100 percent occupancy in Florence in April is rare, but not unheard of. I think it’s far more likely that the hotel didn’t have any accommodations in Backes’ room class.

Even so, some properties have a hospitality suite they can make available to a guest who doesn’t have a working shower. My point being, I think Backes may have given up too soon after his shower stopped working.

I’ve never heard of a hotel paying a guest after the stay for an amenity that should have come with the room. But I suppose it’s possible.

I’m more concerned with the hotel owner’s statement — as relayed by Backes — that he was lucky that he wasn’t being charged for the shower. Backes has filed a complaint with the Florence Tourist Offices and disputed this charge on his credit card, neither of which will probably do much good.

What do you think he should do?

  • ExplorationTravMag

    I didn’t know my opinion would offend you so much, Clark.

    First of all, yes, a travel agent would have chosen a different place to stay.  Also, travel agents have more clout than you give them credit for.  An organized group of travel agents can make or break a hotel/inn/B&B/Cave/Covered Wagon, whatever… While an innkeeper might not give a rat’s behind about a customer they know they’ll never see again, they DO care about what a travel agent thinks because this is someone who has the ability to send them more customers.

    Secondly, and this is just my OPINION, anytime you travel anywhere but your home country, the laws change as does ones familiarity with them.  Even road warriors can get caught in a vice like the OP did if they’re in a different country.  What is a minor annoyance to an innkeeper here could be an arrestable offense in another country and no one wants to spend time in a foreign jail.  Using a travel agent might have helped this be resolved more favorably as there is an intermediary who is in a greater bargaining position.

    My guess (and it’s just a guess, not fact, not based on personal knowledge or anything like that) is they made this booking through one of the hotel search engines and didn’t know what hotel it was until after it was paid/booked, thus not able to make a change.

  • ExplorationTravMag

    See my response above to Clark…  Pretty much answers yours, as well.

  • andi330

    If the shower was important to him, he should have asked to be walked to another hotel when informed that his current one was full and he couldn’t be moved. Or he should have asked for the discount at the first indication that there was something wrong with the shower. By staying in the room and not asking for the discount as soon as the shower issue and paying the bill, he limited his options. Especially since many people in Europe and other countries around the world don’t understand the American need to shower or bathe as often as we do.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HMW3OTJSBDWWRKIEKEKWWM7BEA bc

    Hourly rate hotel might be a little extreme but for sure they overpaid for the quality of hotel they received. 3 day stay, does that mean two nights? That makes it 250 euros a night (even for 3 nights at 170 euros a night it seems overpriced) I was just in Florence a year ago and found a lovely apartment for around $100 US very close to Il Duomo and the Medici Palace. 

     What they paid for is being at the steps of Il Duomo and it looks like the hotel is riding on the location to drive business. 

  • 1pop

    …yes, they should’ve knocked a few euros off his bill; most places would…but, c’mon, this is ITALY!

  • SoBeSparky

    Wrong.  TripAdvisor is a customer satisfaction survey of actual guests with guest photos featured, not just the perfect studio-like shots by the hotel’s advertising agency.  So do you want to stay at a particular hotel when room guests are more satisfied at about 200 others?  Absurd. 

    If you have a choice in our capitalist system, you speak with your dollars, in this case USD$200+ per night.  Why would you knowingly eliminate over 200 hotels which provided a better total overall stay than this one?   Price, location and facilities are all serious considerations.  With over 200 to choose from, certainly  a better choice could be made.As a quick specific example, it took me about four minutes to find two hotels at the same price point ranked #6 and #24 within 700 feet of the Hotel Universo.   

    The premise that rankings and the choice of hotels are random events is false.  You have a choice.  You have tools.  If you do not use the tools to make an informed choice, then you have created a random event.  I would rather make an informed choice based on tools at hand than trust random probability theory.

  • wew1981

    But in Italy closets count as a room, thus your tax basis goes up.  I lived there for three years,  most individuals have moveable wardrobes rather than closets since they are’t taxed.

    Lack of closets is a way to reduce their property tax.

  • backprop

    Hmm, someone sounds offended, and it wasn’t Carver Clark Farrow II.

  • ClareClare

    As I’ve noted before, I live in Italy, and am of Italian descent, so here goes:
    Italians (and the farther south you go, the worse it gets) don’t get that when you politely point out a problem to them, they should try extra-hard to help you. Instead, it just registers in their Italian heads that you are a wimp and they can just walk all over you.  That’s why nice people from Kansas, and quiet little old English ladies (e.g.) get mistreated AND ripped off left and right over here. 

    Unfortunately, the correct thing for the OP to do was to rant and rave, loudly and dramatically, in the lobby where everybody could hear him, on Day #1, and keep at it until he got some sort of resolution.  (An Italian would have done this instinctively; and the manager would have resolved it even faster because they’re more quick to help their own.)  Since we Americans are generally civilized, we don’t tend to behave this way–but this is the only thing that works with these people.

    I agree totally with the poster here that said go after them, and teach them a lesson!  It’s polite tourists from honest countries who get ripped off, day after day after day, while this sort of trash walks into the back room smiling, and thinking proudly, smugly, that they showed those stupid tourists a thing or two!  They will NEVER STOP this unless people push back!  And don’t write off the Florence Tourist Office; that’s a halfway decent city by Italian standards, so somebody might actually read the complaint!

    Honestly, this manager sounds like one of my relatives… 

  • ExplorationTravMag

    You’re most likely correct, bc.  It just looks like they didn’t research this well at all.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    You don’t seem to understand how rankings work.  There could be 400 excellent hotels listed and somebody would still come in at #203. It is inevitable.  (There could also be 400 lousy hotels meaning the top-ranked ones would only be slightly less horrible.)

    To say that nobody should ever stay at something ranked that low is ludicrous.  
    A) Better options may be booked 
    B) This particular place may be more desirable either because of location, rate, etc.

    You are saying that of the 400 hotels Trip Advisor lists for Florence, at minimum 200 of them must be completely dismissed as being totally unacceptable.  And, guess what…if you had your way and 200 closed tomorrow, hotels you thought were acceptable yesterday would by default end up at the bottom of the Trip Advisor rankings tomorrow, turning them from a place you’d have considered to unacceptable. 

    Your comments also ignore the details of the actual letter. He never really gripes about the hotel beyond the shower breaking. He was actually happy enough with it a paltry 50 euro credit would have fully satisfied him.  How would Trip Advisor of helped him in this case unless there were a ton of reviews specifically griping about the management or showers?

  • Joe_D_Messina

    Sorry, but I don’t see how you’ve really addressed any of the questions at all.   If anything, you’ve muddied the waters even further. Where is the “arrestable offense” stuff coming from?  It clearly doesn’t apply to this case.

    The OP sounded happy enough with the hotel beyond the shower breaking. He even took that in stride. The management’s attitude is what got him upset.  How would a TA been able to foresee that outcome? Sure, it’s POSSIBLE they could have, but it doesn’t sound particularly likely. 

  • ExplorationTravMag

    So now you’re either a law enforcement officer or attorney licensed to practice in Italy?  Must be nice to be completely familiar with every law in every part of the world…

  • SoBeSparky

    Apparently you are not aware of TripAdvisor, what customer satisfaction ratings mean, and do not have significant travel experience.

    TripAdvisor loads every hotel from every reservations service and any other source into its system, whether or not it has any reviews.  You could discover this on your own.  There are, according to TripAdvisor, 472 hotels today you can book in Florence.  TA includes them all, even 32 which never have received ratings. Travel Weekly, the industry’s newspaper, lists only 365 hotel properties.  

    Are you being argumentative or simply oblivious when you say all these hotels could be excellent?  Or just playing a game of sorts?

    Customer satisfaction means the entire experience, for whatever reason.  I could say I had a wonderful night in the Miami Beach Fleabag Inn, except for the fact I received 100 bites from bed bugs.  I read Ben’s Universo comments.  This hotel did not provide Ben customer satisfaction. Period.  

    You have taken my language and twisted it, such as, “…at minimum 200 of them must be completely dismissed as being totally unacceptable.”  Never said that.  Creating straw man fallacies is not a credible way to present your positions.

  • RetiredNavyphotog

    I sure hope he does a review on TripAdvisor.  A bad review on this website, along with looking at other reviews, would definitely keep me from staying at this hotel.  Some of the descriptions given this hotel on TripAdvisor:  “awful,” small rooms and gloomy,”dark and dingy,” and my favorite, “don’t stay here unless you want your stuff stolen.”
    Pretty well sums things up.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    Maybe you want to read backprop’s comment above, because that’s how you’re coming across. You’re normally a very logical poster, but that’s not how you’re acting now.

    There are no foreign legal issues in this case. Period. Nothing even hinted at. So, why are you talking about “arrestable offenses”?  All this because a couple people disagreed with you that a travel agent would have prevented the OP’s problem?

  • AUSSIEtraveller

    should had got the plumber to fix shower when 1st noticed not ask for a refund.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    “You have taken my language and twisted it, such as, “…at minimum 200 of them must be completely dismissed as being totally unacceptable.”  Never said that.” 

    Really? Then how do you translate this other statement you made?

    “Most experienced travelers and users of TA would never pick a hotel ranked in the middle of the pack of a large city.”

  • Joe Farrell

    She is 100% correct- and when I did this in Rome with a problem in my room very similar to this – a tub but the tub LEAKED water all over the floor.  I added a few choice italian words into the mix about the owner’s parental lineage that they don’t know about treating guests as guests and giving the guest the best room in the house when they insult them and treat them poorly – all in heavily NY accented Italian – you would have thought I owned the place.  My wife was treated like a queen . . . 

    different cultures have different values – being nice is NOT one that plays on the Italian mindset when there is a problem.  

  • backprop

    Someone put bedbugs in your Cheerios this morning?

  • ExplorationTravMag

    Clark?  You have two logins? Wow, talk about Type A personality… (Or is that dual personality?)

  • TonyA_says

     How about an armoire with drawers?
    Since that is not built-in then it’s furniture, correct? That’s a lot better than a made-in-China metal rack on wheels.

  • TonyA_says

     Yes, Piazza Sta. Maria Novella is an EXCELLENT Location for three (3) main reasons:
    (1) It is near the train station.
    (2) It is near the PARKING area (note Florence has ZTL so you cannot just drive in beyond certain areas).
    (3) It is very close to the market and the flea (open) market

    Walking to any tourist spot is also near.
    On the other side of the plaza (across the Church) is one of the good gelatos, too. Of course, there are a lot more gelato places in Florence.

  • backprop

    Sorry that most people don’t think the world of “travel agents,” hon.  But get your facts right.

  • backprop

     Be kind.  There’s something wrong with her.  The whole travel agent industry is tanking.   Commissioned salespeople tend to get more obnoxious when that happens.

  • Extraneededmail

    I stayed at this hotel several years ago and had an exceptional visit but I didn’t have any shower issues either. We were too busy sightseeing. I agree that they gave up too easily and should have been more forthright about having their shower needs met while staying there and not after the fact.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    Not a credit card slip.  Unless you are a member of the loyalty program ( which implies you’ve signed a master contract) when you sign the contract at the front desk, you will see in the fine print a statement saying that you are responsible for all hotel charges.  The statement will continue with verbiage that you are responsible even if someone else is supposed to pay, e.g. credit card, airline voucher, master bill, etc.  If for any reason those sources of payment fail, you are personally liable.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

     I agree with the others and you who question why the OP just “gave up”
    and accepted the fact that they couldn’t fix the shower.

    _______________________

    Perhaps he is not experiences, not confrontational, etc

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

     For the record, Sobesparky is usually reasonable, but in this case, I concur that his logic escapes me.  If we accept his premise that “Most experienced travelers and users of TA would never pick a hotel ranked in the middle of the pack of a large city.”, then who exactly is filling up this hotel as well as the remaining 200 lower ranked hotels. I guess inexperienced people perhaps?

    The statement is further baffling in that it ignores that there are numerous reasons to stay at a given hotel besides the quality of the hotel itself.  Business travelers will stay at a hotel because it’s hosting a convention.  When I took the State Bar examination, the host hotel was the much vilified Westin LAX, at the time, easily one of the two lowest rated Starwood hotels in all of Southern California and remains one of the lowest ranked Starwood hotels in Southern California by traveler satisfaction outside of the Four Points chain.

    Similarly, leisure travelers may choose a less desirable hotel for numerous reasons, including geographic proximity to a desired destination.  For example, most of the hotels near the Santa Cruz boardwalk look like flophouses.  But they are often sold out because they are the closest properties to the beach.  While I personally wouldn’t go near one, I understand their allure to others.

    Neither the Westin LAX nor the Santa Cruz motels would ever top anyone’s list of great accommodations but reasonable, experienced travelers routinely choose those properties.

    I don’t know why the OP chose that particular property but I stand by my argument that we cannot make any assumptions without knowing the facts.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

     Bingo.  I was truly surprised by the reaction.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    I am not backdrop.  Now I am offended by that silly accusation. Use common sense. I post with my full name, disclose my professional, even the suffix to my name. To suggest that I am posting under two different names is contemptible.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    Totally with you. If he’d simply said “there were better options” I’d have completely agreed, but to say that  nobody should ever stay at a hotel in the 50th percentile was just over-the-top for me.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    Wow, and I thought it couldn’t get much worse. Because there’s no way that more than one person could possibly disagree with you?  It just has to be the same person with multiple accounts.

    I suppose it is here where I need to make clear I’m a separate individual from both backprop and Clark, as well.  

    And, btw, extra uncouth to make accusations like that about frequent, longtime posters. If it were somebody new showing up today and piling on, maybe I can see that suspicion arising, but we’ve all been posting here for quite some time, as have you.

  • Cybrsk8r

    So I guess Italians don’t consider bathing all that important?

  • Jonathan Woodman

    Before the Hotel Universo gets a completely bad reputation, I can say that I stayed there and had a wonderful stay.  They apparently treated Ben terribly, and folks should definitely consider that when choosing where to stay.  But I wanted to give a fuller picture of the hotel.

  • Bill___A

    They should have insisted the hotel come up with some solution at the time of the problem, or checked out.  Now that they have already stunk for three days, there’s not much to do about it.

    I remember one time I had to leave for an early flight and the shower broke that morning (one night stay).  I called the front desk and they said they would have it fixed “today” – which would have been long after my flight.  They could have offered me another room to shower in but didn’t.  It was foolish of them and an inconvenience to me -  I did let them and their chain know of my displeasure, but at no time did I ask for money back.  It wasn’t a “money” issue to me.  Everything doesn’t have to be about money.

  • BMG4ME

    He deserves a refund – just not a very big one.