Do I deserve a refund after volcanic eruption?

When Chile’s Puyehue volcano erupted last fall, prompting airlines to cancel numerous flights, Donna Vogeler-Boutin decided her planned Christmas vacation in Bariloche, Argentina, would be too risky.

She canceled her flights and asked her hotel, Lirolay Suites, for a full refund. But instead of offering her money back, she says Lirolay quietly pocketed $700, the amount she pre-paid for her accommodations, without explanation.

Vogeler-Boutin wants my help with a refund. But I’m not sure if I can — or should — get involved.

Here’s her side of the story:

More than 40 days our from our reservation I had to cancel because of volcanic activities. It would have even be doubtful that LAN would fly into Bariloche if the problem continued with the volcanic ash an we would have lost the entire amount of our stay.

Our stay was for December 24th to December 29th, maybe the 30th. I cancelled on November 13th and they took $700 from our Visa. Outrageous!

But did they tell her the hotel was nonrefundable? Actually, yes.

I did sign a guarantee that I would be coming. And I had NO DOUBT I would be there. But I had NO IDEA we would be having a volcano problem.

Vogeler-Boutin emailed the hotel, asking it to consider an exception to its policy. She sent me the correspondence. While the property appears to have responded quickly to an earlier inquiry about whether it was pet-friendly, it did not acknowledge her request for a refund.

“I have heard nothing back from Lirolay Suites and I’m sure they could care less,” she says. “They have my $700 because of a volcano.”

I’m conflicted about this one. The hotel should have responded to her request one way or another, no question about it. But is she entitled to a full refund?

A look at the location of her hotel on the map shows that it’s quite a distance from Puyehue — a nine-hour drive over the mountain range. What’s more, there’s no evidence the hotel was out of commission during the holidays. Vogeler-Boutin appears to have canceled her vacation as a precaution, not out of necessity.

If she’d bought travel insurance (anything except a “cancel for any reason” policy) she wouldn’t be able to make a successful claim.

The Lirolay may not owe her a full refund under its policy, but it does owe her an answer. It could have also offered her a partial or full credit for a future stay — although that’s not necessary.

Vogeler-Boutin seems to want more than her money. She wants the world to know what the Lirolay did to her.

“I pity your bad Karma in your business,” she wrote to the hotel. “I shall be reporting this to a travel ombudsman and will ask them to publish this for the world to see as well as put my comments on your business practices on the Internet.”

I don’t know if that motivates me to get involved in this case.

(Photo: Puyehue/Flickr)

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  • andrelot

    There were other airports open, she could have flown there and taken a drive of 6-8h to Bariloche.

  • TonyA_says

    The airport HAD been closed for a long while since she cancelled in NOVEMBER. Since her first night was 24DEC then 45 days prior should have been 9NOV. So here’s an article on the web that could have changed her mind earlier.

    Sunday,
    November 6th, 2011

    The Volcano Observatory of the Southern Andes (OVDAS), National
    Service of Geology and Mining (SERNAGEOMIN) – reports Caulle cord activity in the last 24 hours.
    The volcanic alert level is red: minor eruption. Eruptive process
    of low intensity and stable trend.
    The dangers listed in the current volcanic warning levels are reduced
    to fine ash falls that can cause some problems in air traffic, depending on the atmospheric circulation and possible
    lahars side, with the occurrence rainfall and / or melting processes. The main channels that can be affected by lahars
    are Nilahue northeast rivers and buttresses southeast basin and channels Gol Gol National Park Puyehue.

    Nearly five months of activity has covered the high plains of Argentina
    in gray ash. High winds can lift this ash back into the air, occasionally disrupting air travel in
    Argentina and Uruguay.

    The usually chilly river temperature of six degrees has been raised
    to an average of around 45 degrees by the eruption. The eruption also forced the evacuation of
    3,500 people from around the site, while a ten kilometre exclusion zone was also set up.

    Flights have been cancled, and at least 7 regional airports closed.She cancelled 40 days prior, or on 14 NOV, 5 days late. So yes, you don’t need to be clairevoyant. You just have to know you had  to cancel 45 days before your stay to AVOID penalty fees. Operator FAIL here.

  • TonyA_says

    But she didn’t want to. That is tantamount to INVOL REROUTE. Look below at my post to Bodega. I have a link to the airline memo that allowed cancellations with refunds.

  • TonyA_says

    Try to route a flight from the USA to Esquel. Good luck finding one.

    The re-route was AEP-NQN-BRC where the NQN-BRC is over land (on a bus). I posted the LAN memo.

  • TonyA_says

    The OP probably never read and understood the hotel cancellation penalties. It’s like buying a gadget and throwing away the manual and read me first pamphlet immediately without reading. You know it’s suppose to be idiot proof; but it ain’t.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYR4YYOAPY4X3UUYLPCADARF3Q emanon256

    How do we know they didn’t acknowledge her?  What if she just didn’t like the response she got?  The fact that she made threats and contacted Chris over wanting a refund of a non-refundable deposit already makes me doubt her.
     
    A few times I have had to re-book a hotel, where it was after the cancelation deadline.  Each time I have called, asked nicely, and have never had a problem.  I always have them e-mail me a confirmation of the change.  In this case, the OP simply canceled and did it by e-mail.  In some cases a phone call is warranted, and can be followed up with writing.
     
    I don’t get why you feel the need to bash this property for following its own policy.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYR4YYOAPY4X3UUYLPCADARF3Q emanon256

    Perhaps they don’t want her as a customer.  I sure wouldn’t after that threat.  I’ve mentioned on here before, I used to supervise a customer service center.  We had an occasional e-mail where it was simply in our best interest to not reply to the customer. If someone is unreasonable, and it is clear they are just a complainer and will probably never even be a future customer, it is not always necessary to dignify them with a reply, it only adds fuel to the fire.  Just like she can take her business elsewhere, sometimes business need to fire their customers.

  • Lindabator

    She made the decision to cancel out of fear, not necessity.  It is NOT a requirement that the hotel refund her when the travel was over a MONTH later!  Seems like she was just using this as an excuse to cancel.

  • Lindabator

    Sounds like she cancelled BEFORE contacting them – not a smart move, as she incurs any penalties in that case.  What she should have done is contact them first – she had PLENTY of time!

  • Lindabator

    But she still purchased a nonrefundable and cancelled BEFORE asking for a refund or other arrangements.  This was due to fear, and she failed to use common sense.  Nonrefundable bookings are a debt assumed by the traveller, and if she wanted a refdund or something else, she should have asked for that BEFORE cancelling – she DID have plenty of time!

  • Lindabator

    ONLY if that is part of the contract – not just because you ASSUME it – and she should have ASKED for a refund or accommodation BEFORE cancelling – once a nonrefundable is cancelled, you have no recourse to ask for anything!  And she did have plenty of time to negotiate.

  • Lindabator

    That is a good point – and again, folks – always negotiate BEFORE cancelling – BEFORE penalties are incurred.

  • Lindabator

    Yes, I think she could have gotten some relief by ASKING before cancelling.  Most companies are more flexible than some believe – especially in cases like this.

  • Lindabator

    She had 6 weeks – she could have emailed a request – but instead she cancelled, and THEN goes back to them for something – they are probably far less interested after the fact – but would likely work with her beforehand.

  • Lindabator

    We get insulted everyday in our profession – Tony, truer words were never spoken.  And as someone who goes to bat for a client, I learned a long time ago you are NOT entitled just ’cause, and the nicer you are, the farther you get – perhaps she might want to consider that in the future! 

  • Lindabator

    Then don’t choose the hotel in the first place.  BUT – if you did, do NOT expect them to have to void the contract because YOU feel entitled to a refund!

  • Lindabator

    Absolutely – and if she claimed any legal action, they would NOT respond at all – so who knows just how nasty she got???

  • Lindabator

    You are only ASSUMING, based on HER word, that she was kind in the letter, and that it was even sent to the correct area.  How did she cancel?  That was where she should have started – asking for options BEFORE cancelling.  Not going back to them afterwards, and expecting a refund she was not entitled to.

  • Michael__K

    Chronology fail.

    Are you suggesting they didn’t respond because they knew she would be rude LATER?

  • Michael__K


    she could have emailed a request  

    —–

    You mean like this: ??


    Vogeler-Boutin emailed the hotel, asking it to consider an exception to its policy.

    Are you questioning Chris now?

  • TonyA_says

    Yes definitely her fault for not cancelling ON TIME. She had plenty of time after 5JUN eruption to do this.

  • Michael__K

    How do we know they didn’t acknowledge her?

    ——
    Because Chris says so:

    Vogeler-Boutin emailed the hotel, asking it to consider an exception to its policy. She sent me the correspondence….  [The property]… did not acknowledge her request for a refund. 

  • Michael__K

    You mean you can read her mind and you determined that the airport closure and 6 to 9 hour bus ride had nothing to do it?

    And are you suggesting that if she waited to the last minute to make 100% certain that the airport was really still closed (as it was) that you would have supported her request to cancel and get a refund at that point?  Are you suggesting that the fact that the standard cancellation penalty climbs from 40% to 100% as time passes should have had no bearing on her decision?

  • Michael__K

    For someone who is suggesting we shouldn’t make any assumptions about her email, you’re making lots of assumptions about what was and wasn’t in her email (some of which are even contradicted by the article).

    FYI, we don’t have anyone’s word about whether or not the email was “kind.”

  • FirstClassRogue

    I did sign a guarantee that I would be coming. 

    She said she would be there, she could have traveled another way.  end of story. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYR4YYOAPY4X3UUYLPCADARF3Q emanon256

    Because she told Chris. Its just hear-say.

  • Michael__K

    Makes no sense.  No motive and the hotel could easily show otherwise.

    I don’t get why you feel the need to assume wild hypotheticals to bash the OP: 

    “i think she just wanted to cancel and was looking for a good excuse”
     ”if… she would have called… most likely the hotel would have been accommodating.”
    she told Chris. Its just hear-say.

    When I merely shoot down your hypotheticals, you seem to think I’m bashing the hotel (I’m not, I just think she deserved a response).

  • TonyA_says

    If you read the article carefully it never told us that she could have avoided all of this nightmare had she contacted the hotel 5 DAYS EARLIER. Th OP made a mistake and now she wants REVENGE on the hotel.

    The hotel has NO OBLIGATION to refund or return the PENALTY Charges. The hotel can legally choose to IGNORE the OP, too. Who wouldn’t if they are being threatened?

    Therefore I agree with you. Your points are REASONABLE. Ask nicely and you might get something. Well said.

  • TonyA_says

    Mike, the OP probably didn’t read the cancellation policy EARLIER. IMO (given the fact the airport had already been closed), she could have made the decision much earlier.

    There are actually websites out there that show the Puyehue Plume on a day to day basis. FYI that volcano has never stopped spewing ash since 5JUN.
    I have no idea why she waited that long to change her mind. IMO any reasonable person would have cancelled or rescheduled (for a long time later) their vacation to Bariloche if they see the animated map below.

    http://puff.images.alaska.edu/watch/movies/Puyehue/movie20000.shtml

  • Michael__K

    Too much stuff we don’t know, such as when she learned she could cancel her flights w/o penalty because of the airport closure.

    I’m amused that there are Monday Morning QB’s / experts here who (apparently continue to) think that she was jumping the gun by cancelling 40 days prior (or just looking for a convenient excuse) at the same time that you are pointing out that “any reasonable person” should have cancelled even earlier.

    [I really appreciate your research on this case BTW.  Without it we'd probably still have our heads in the sand arguing from incorrect assumptions]

  • TonyA_says

    Thanks for the kind words Michael.
    Here’s the way I internalized this case. I try to put myself in her shoes. What would I have done if I was in her position (given the limited information posted here).
    First I would have read the cancellation policy so I know where I stood.

    Then, I will make a judgment call if the vacation was still worth having. Bariloche airport closure and the 9 hour bus ride (airline re-route) from Neuquen was well known at that time. The continues spewing of dust by volcano was also well known (it still is spewing today). So no need for Monday Morning QBs. There was enough there to make me say NO WAY to continue with this trip even before November.

    If I can get out w/o penalty I will. In this case it must be done at least 45 days before the first day of stay.
    If I don’t have 45 days, and knowing I will be penalized 40%, I would have asked for a voucher (reschedule) good for a year. I would not have just cancelled knowing it was already too late to do that without a huge penalty.

    Mike, as I said, we went through a similar situation when that Iceland Volcano erupted. We rescheduled our trip 6 months later. The hotels and rented private transportation companies all acceded to our request.
    This (volcano eruptions or natural disasters) is normal for the travel industry. You just have to ask nicely and never threaten anyone.  So next time, it’s all please and thank you.

  • Bill Armstrong

    It was non refundable.  She already knows that. She asked them to make an exception, they should have replied, but then again, she knows it is non refundable.

  • Sadie_Cee

    We know when the OP cancelled, but as you said, we need to know the date she actually made the bookings. Is there any chance that the hotel would be able to rebook the room?

  • Sadie_Cee

    Disinterested professionals, I hope.

  • Sadie_Cee

    Would you believe that your response made me laugh for the very first time today?  I just couldn’t help myself.  Thanks!

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