Can this trip be saved? He didn’t inspect the car – now they want $700

September 27, 2010

Bogus car rental damages seem to be a recurring theme on this site. This week’s edition of “can this trip be saved” takes one of those cases in its crosshairs.

Meet Andrew Schultheis, who rented a car from Alamo in Washington earlier this year. When he picked up his vehicle, no one offered to walk around the car with him, which is pretty normal. (I rented a car twice this week, and not only did they not offer to inspect the car, they refused to when I asked them to go over the vehicle.)

Then again, Schultheis didn’t go over the car, either. And that’s where the problem begins.

The next day at a parking garage, an attendant pointed out a scrape on the front bumper. Knowing I did not do it, I ignored it, figuring the damage was already on the car when I rented it.

I did not hit anything and where the scrape was located made it virtually impossible to accept that anyone else hit it while it was in our possession, based on where we parked the car overnight.

Upon return, Alamo stated the damage, specifically to the right bumper only, was my responsibility.

Schultheis has spent the last few months fighting the claim, but Alamo is persisting. It wants $700 for the damage, which now includes the scratch, plus new cracks on the side of the bumper that were never pointed out to him or acknowledged when he returned the car.

I accept the fact that I should have gone over the car before I left. But, are they responsible to go over it with me?

I cannot, however, accept responsibility for the other damage that they included after I returned the car.

Alamo has shown him photos and repair records, but they do not prove that the damage wasn’t pre-existing, only that the damage was noted on his vehicle when he returned it, and that it had been repaired.

On one hand, I think Alamo’s claim may be inflated. But on the other hand, Schultheis is responsible for any damage that happened to the car while it was in his possession — whether he saw it happen or not.

A poll of more than 500 readers showed a slim majority supported a mediation. Just over 57 percent wanted me to get involved; about 42 percent were opposed.

I’m still on the fence on this one. I’m going to have to mull it over some more. Stay tuned.

Update (10/5): It’s been fixed. Just got the following note from Schultheis:

I received a message from my contact at Alamo saying that they have decided to drop the claim against me. I am not sure exactly what you did or how, but I do know that had I not seen your article and contacted you, this would never had happened. Your personal involvement, I am sure, is what led to this decision. For this, I am incredibly grateful for your help.

There is no doubt that I will be much more diligent the next time I rent a car. And, as I mentioned before, I have subscribed to your weekly emails and have already gained insight in to becoming a more informed traveler.

(Photo: p alestrina 55/Flickr Creative Commons)

Steve Surjaputra

Since Alamo can not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Schultheis caused those other damages, they should not charge him $700. They don’t even have proof that the scrape on the front bumper wasn’t pre-existing.

Chris, I think you should take the case (Maybe you need to change jobs and become a lawyer :) ).
Liz S.

Hi -
This seems to be the Washington Alama scam! We retned an Alamo car in Washington for 1 day & they tried to shake us down for a charge to “repair a scratch.” — which we definitely did NOT put there! We had our insurance agent tackle this one; he succeeded because our mileage at return did not match their records — the car had been driven another 50 miles after we returned it!! Someone else damaged their car! I think that Alamo is doing this to a lot of people.
Datanerd

I think you should get involved.
Mel

I am always ambivalent about these types of complaints on your site, Chris. I have a hard time w/ people who say “well nobody checked it out.” Then why didn’t the OP do it himself, since he obviously knows someone should have? Why didn’t he look? Take pics? Ask the representative to sign a statement that he refused to review the vehicle? Customers have to take SOME responsibility. If you rent a car, you assume responsibility for that vehicle and for returning it in “the same condition” which you cannot do if you don’t know what that condition is to begin with.
http://www.roamingtales.com Caitlin @ Roaming Tales

I voted yes to mediation because I think the onus should be on the rental car company to prove the damage happened in the renter’s possession. It should not be up to renter’s to prove their innocence. It’s extremely bad practice for the rental company not to walk around the car with the renter and in my opinion, this should void any claims they might have.
Scott

Here are a few suggestions for your reader Chris.

1. Ask Alamo to supply a copy of the estimate and color photos of the damage. Make a note of the mileage on the estimate and see if it matches up with the return mileage of the vehicle. Take the estimate and photos to a reputable body shop and ask them audit the estimate as to fairness. If it is overinflated, and they want to just get make the claim go away, they can make a compromise offer.
2. If they would rather fight, advise Alamo that the burden of proof is theirs, either to you or a court of law. If they can’t prove it, they lose.
3. File complaints with both the FTC and their local Attorney General.
4. Turn the matter over to the insurance company and let them fight it out.
Eric Zawid

I am canceling my Alamo rental now for my next trip. Not risking their lack of providing proof. National has always been good to me.
SirWired

If you don’t inspect the car before you leave, the case is lost. Alamo is going to say the car was fine when the OP left, and it was most certainly damaged when the car was returned. Alamo will almost certainly have “records” “proving” that there was no damage prior to the rental.

This should be a lesson that unless you have purchased the overpriced CDW, NEVER drive a car off the lot until you inspect it. If you find damage, NEVER leave the lot until somebody at the rental car place signs off on it.
Rich

Get involved, because it’s a virtual certainty he didn’t do this, and whenever anybody pushes back, especially the media, the rental companies usually drop the whole thing.
John

Their burden of proof is met. They have a rental contract with “No Damage” on it or a clean walk around. They also have “after” pictures with the scrape that was shown to the OP on return. The OP has admitted to both of these as fact.

Some of these can be pretty smelly but the rental car company pointed out the damage on the return of the car. They compared to damage to the inspection that the OP signed. There is damage present now that isn’t on the contract. Their case is proved.

I don’t see any reason for Chris to be involved.
sweepergrl

The last three times I’ve rented a car, the agent has refused to walk around the car with me and inspect it. The agent at the airport counter said she was the only one working and couldn’t leave the counter unattended. Both non-airport rentals said that they were too busy to take the time to walk around. To be fair, there was a long line in both cases. I walked around and took lots of pictures, but I’m still half expecting a bogus claim. Not much you can do when the agents refuse to inspect the car.

Help him out, Chris
Phil

If the renter was too lazy to check the car prior to leaving the Alamo property, then perhaps Alamo has a claim. When one signs the rental agreement it states that renter is responsible for damage, that should have put up a red flag for this renter and he should have made sure that there was no damage, if the renter had done his job, he could have called an Alamo representative over to inspect the damage, sign off on it, and this problem would not have perhaps occured.
Tim@OKC

Here’s what I was told by an Alamo “Manager” when they tried to pull this scam on me:
a. Alamo Corporate policy is to NOT provide a vehicle inspection form to note damage on, in the rental vehicle.
b. Alamo Corporate policy is to NOT have employee’s walk the car w/renters prior to leaving the rental lot.
c. Alamo Corporate policy is for the renter to note damage on the rental form, however they generally don’t explain that to customers during rental process.
d. Alamo rental lot gate agents are discouraged from asking renters IF they have noted damage on rental form prior to their leaving the rental lot. However, they ARE encouraged to try and sell extra’s such as GPS rentals, Road Service rentals.

Now those may only be his interpretations of their policies, but he was pretty emphatic about the fact that the onus was on me to prove I didn’t scratch the vehicle, or pay up.

I vote that you mediate this one.
Eric

Wow, Tim. Sounds like I won’t be renting from Alamo anymore.

If the agent refuses to do the walk around, I do my own and then take the form back inside and tell him/her sign off on any pre-existing damage. I would never drive a car off the lot without checking it.

Maybe someone should create a downloadable, generic, rental inspection form, so you can do your own inspection and then return to the rental counter with the form and have the agent sign off on it. I’m going to see if I can come up with something like that.
Chicky

Yeah, mediate. I’ve rented from an airport Alamo in HSV. I’ve never had an employee offer to walk me around the car. The cars are parked in the parking deck, where it’s a little dim, lighting-wise, so minor scrapes would be hard to see. What I do, is before I ever even unlock the doors, is to walk around the car with my cell phone, taking pictures, with my rental contract propped up on the window. I also tell the agent at the desk I’ll be doing that. I make sure I get a photo of the tag, too, to eliminate any “confusion.”
I also take photos of the car when I fill it up with gas before I return it. So far, I’ve never had any problems, fingers crossed.
I think the burden of proof is on Alamo, too, and considering the numbers of claims like this that have popped up recently, it sounds like a way to get more money. Scott had good suggestions, too. I’ll certainly remember them. And keep taking photos of the cars.
Aaron

The burden of proof should lie on Alamo to prove that he damaged the car. How do *they* know the car wasn’t previously damaged? This is robbery. You should TOTALLY mediate this.
Sarah Di

I think you should mediate. Asking for the estimate and previous inspection reports might be enough for them to stop what they’re doing. Yes, the customer should have inspected the car before leaving, but I still think it’s worth mediating.
LadySiren

I’m of a mixed mind on this one. While I truly hate the scammy nature of car rental companies these days, it’s the OPs fault for not inspecting his car. This is especially true if the OP is any kind of regular visitor to this site. Seriously, it’s all about CYA nowadays if you’re the traveler, so how can you NOT take the time out to walk around your rental vehicle with a digital camera? Shame on the OP for being lax in covering his butt, and shame on the travel industry for making it necessary to do so.

I’d vote no, as much as I don’t want to.
Teresa

In all these cases, both the rental company and the renter have responsibilities if they want to assert their rights.

The rental company needs to state its contract terms clearly, provide lighting and shelter in which to inspect the condition of the car, and cooperate with the renter in recording the condition, most likely including providing a standard form to note damage on.

The renter needs to inspect the condition of the car in a way that accords reasonably with the circumstances of the pickup (one can’t expect them to do a detailed exterior inspection if it’s dark and pouring rain and they’re not allowed to bring the car indoors).

Based on my recent rentals, the rental companies seem to be deliberately avoiding their responsibilities these days. Perhaps they need a judge or a government agency to tell them they need to do better. If they don’t — for example, if pickup locations are always too dark to make damage visible — then they can’t really claim that damage must be the responsibility of a renter because that renter didn’t examine the car well enough.

So if Mr. Schultheis has any evidence at all that Alamo was less than 100% forthcoming in helping him inspect the car at pickup, I think he has a case, and I’d encourage Chris to take it.

In this day and age, there’s no longer any real cost barrier to taking detailed exterior images of each car pre- and post-rental. It makes sense for this to be the responsibility of the rental company rather than the renter.
Dan

I’ve read enough of these stories on your site to believe that you should mediate every damage case. If a scratch cost $50 or some nominal charge, then ok fine. But too many people are coming here with stories entailing claims in the hundreds of dollars — claims that I just can’t believe are legitimate. A $1000 scratch repair isn’t a scratch repair — it’s a new bumper.

I have to wonder if the car rental industry is trying to create an environment where people are so paranoid about BS damage claims that they find it easier just to take out the overpriced CDW/LDW and not worry about it. If so, that’s bad business and needs to be stopped.

Oh, and Andrews claim that they’re inflating the damages *after* he returned the vehicle? That’s BS. He should only be liable for the damages noted upon vehicle return.
andi330

While I sympathize and would hate to have to deal with this myself, unfortunately, since the customer did not inspect the car before he left, he is ultimately responsible for the damages. If he had a form showing the existing damage, or had taken pictures of the car when he picked it up, that would be one thing, but it sounds like he has no evidence beyond, “it couldn’t have happened while I had the car.” Sorry, but I don’t think you should mediate this one.
Barry

My vote is for “mediate.” While it’s hard to tell who’s actually at fault here, having an impartial 3rd party sounds appropriate in this case.

On a side note, I’ve began the practice of just circling the entire car on the damage form if the agent won’t do a walk around. I did this with a UHaul several years ago that was completely dented up and the agent had no problem signing the form. If the agent is too lazy to walk out to do an inspection, he might not have a problem signing the circled form. Once you have that, it’s like the entire car is “damaged” and you can’t be responsible for anything new when returning it. So my advice is turn the tables – rather than the agent pressuring you to sign a form with no damage without an inspection, pressure him to sign a form with “all damage” and let him come out to prove otherwise.
Monica

I voted no simply because the customer admitted he knew the car should have been inspected, yet didn’t take the time to do it the right way. He knew that this situation could have happened, but did not actively try to prevent it. He also said he ignored the Alamo rep when they pointed out the damage and “assumed” the damage was already there and noted from a previous renter. I would have argued that on the spot, not when the repair bill came.
Steve

I vote yes. Should the renter have taken the time to inspect the car? Sure. But that doesn’t make it okay for the rental car company to pursue a bogus claim (which is what this sounds like, based on Alamo wanting payment for damage that was *not* pointed out at the time of the return).

It sure seems like there is very little you can do to protect yourself against car rental scams if the employees refuse to inspect the car or sign off on preexisting damage. Yes, you can document it yourself and take pictures, but all that seems to do is encourage the companies to back off – I don’t think it legally protects you.
Jake

I said no. Since he didn’t check before, it’s he said/they said. While the most recent round of stories shows that some rental agencies aren’t on the up and up, the OP can’t provide a lick of proof that is the case here, just speculation.

Save your time for someone who deserves it, and consider this a lesson learned.
Brian C

I also voted that Chris should moderate this case.

I think a previous commentor made the best point. You need to request the prior rental contract and inspection and note the ending mileage on that contract and then look at the starting mileage of this contract. Where was this car between the previous rental and yours? If there are more than a few miles, I would say you have a strong case that the damage could have been caused by someone else.
My bet is that as soon as Chris gets involved Alamo will drop the claim.
Jeanne in NE

Chris (Elliott), how did *you* handle the situations where the rental agents refused to inspect the vehicle?

Eric’s suggestion that someone create a downloadable form for self-checking rental cars is a GREAT idea! I already have started taking pictures of everything (per suggestions on your forum), but a form or checklist would be very helpful, especially after a mind-numbingly long flight. Perhaps the “Hive Mind” can help?
noah

I rented a car from Alamo a few weeks ago at a location that does not have anybody working in the parking lot. You can easily call Alamo’s roadside assistance line to report pre-existing damage. If you cannot get help at the lot reporting pre-existing damage, you should call the company and report it by phone. Had Schultheis done this, he would not be having this problem. Don’t help him.
Roberto

Why would you take the consumer’s side on this matter? Alamo has produced an avalanche of evidence. What has the consumer provided?

For all you know, the consumer did the damage and just doesn’t feel like paying for it.
Mindy

I strictly use Alamo. In every instance, I’ve been given a damage form and advised to check the vehicle closely before leaving the lot. I mark any damage on the form and give it to he rental agent/gate agent before leaving with the car. I also take date/time marked photos from front driver and rear passenger of the vehicle before I leave and after I return the vehicle. I’ve been reading your column for way too long.

I’ve never had an agent walk with me. I didn’t know anyone still DID that.

In this case.. how does he know that the damage didn’t happen while parked? Virtually impossible is not totally impossible.
Steve

@Monica: “I voted no simply because the customer admitted he knew the car should have been inspected, yet didn’t take the time to do it the right way. He knew that this situation could have happened, but did not actively try to prevent it.” That’s an interesting perspective: because someone does not “actively try to prevent” themselves from being the victim of a scam, they deserve whatever they get? If someone leaves their front door unlocked and then their house is burglarized, should the police not investigate because, hey, everyone knows you should lock your house?

@Roberto: “Alamo has produced an avalanche of evidence. What has the consumer provided?” Alamo has produced evidence that the vehicle in question was damaged and that the vehicle was subsequently repaired (which, granted, is more than rental car companies sometimes provide)…what they have *not* produced is evidence indicating that said damage did not exist before this customer rented the car. And in any case, the question isn’t whether or not Chris should take the customer’s side – the question is whether this case is worth mediating. Perhaps if Chris gets involved and more evidence is given, it will show that the customer was responsible for the damage.

IMHO, this is exactly the kind of case that Chris should get involved in – it’s not a petty dispute over an unclean room or the lack of an ocean view, but rather a very real dispute over a significant sum of money. Either the customer *is* responsible for the damage and should have to pay up, or the rental car company is scamming him. One way or the other, I think it’s clearly worthy of a mediator.
Carol

Crikey! I travel frequently, but I can’t remember a time when a rental agency employee (usually the gate attendant) DIDN’T examine the car prior to rental. However, all these rental car horror stories are having me consider taking pics of the car WITH the agency employee standing next to it before I drive it off the lot.
Carol

Christopher,
Based on your personal situation mentioned in this post, what would you suggest the consumer do if the rental car agency refuses to inspect the car prior to rental? What would you do??

Time and date stamps are easy to manipulate, so I don’t know how much weight these photos carry unless it’s obvious the photos were taken on the lot.

Thanks!
Grant Ritchie

Chris has been harping on the importance of doing walk-arounds on rental cars for… how long? Along comes Mr. Schultheis, knows what he ought to do, fails to do it, then comes sniveling to Chris to bail him out. I vote “NO”. Let Schultheis eat this one. I’ll bet, by God, he does a proper walk-around next time.
John

@ Steve … They do have proof that the car wasn’t damaged. They have a signed contract from the OP with no pre-existing damaged marked on it. So, he stated, in writing, that there wasn’t any pre-existing damage. They also have photos after his rental that indicate damage. Their burden of proof is met. He is now responsible for proving that he didn’t damage the vehicle which he can’t do. It doesn’t get more concrete than this.
Mike Z

@Steve. I agree 100% with what you said.

The car company has provided a damage claim and a repair bill. What they may not have provided was evidence that the damage was not there during any previous rentals. I would simply ask that they provide copies of all rental and damage claims or check in slips for that car for the past 3 months. if that damage is noted anywhere by anyone in that time frame then the renter is off the hook. If the damage was not noted by anyone, then it would be fair to assume that the renter is indeed liable for the damages. (and as someone else pointed out, check the mileage logs!)

Also, something has o be said about a company who does not wish to inspect the car before it leaves the lot. By not inspecting the car, it leaves a window open as to who damaged the vehicle. Was it done in the lot by another employee? Was it done while it was getting washed? The lack of a company inspection leave room for error.
Mike Z

@Carol, don’t be so sure about the photos not carrying any weight. Pictures taken on a cell phone follow a numbered order. I can very easily whip out my cell and show people, in order what photos were taken in what sequence because that is how they get saved. We aren’t talking murder trial here if a company pursues a claim. One only need to show the judge that the car was likely damaged before you got it. A sequence of photos would show just that. He may conclude that photo manipulation is possible, but not likely. (and sometimes a cloudy sky or even sunlight in the back ground will prove a time of day or date the photo was taken.)
Pete S

All the high rental rates and damage scams have lead me to rent much less often. I have been taking public transportation when I can instead of renting cars. It’s kind of fun.
When I do rent, before I drive the car off the lot, I take many photos with my digital camera. (Including the roof) I also inspect the windshield for cracks and dings. I also take photos as I return the car.
Steve

@John: “They do have proof that the car wasn’t damaged. They have a signed contract from the OP with no pre-existing damaged marked on it. So, he stated, in writing, that there wasn’t any pre-existing damage. They also have photos after his rental that indicate damage. Their burden of proof is met. He is now responsible for proving that he didn’t damage the vehicle which he can’t do. It doesn’t get more concrete than this.”

Bull. A contract may satisfy certain legal provisions, but it is not truly proof of anything. If I convinced you to sign a contract saying that the current president of the United States was Homer Simpson, would that prove that statement to be true? Concrete would be evidence that the car was in fact undamaged prior to the rental – and I’m talking photographs.

I also wonder when he signed the contract. The last time I rented a car, I purchased the LDW (partly to avoid scams like these, and partly because I wanted to protect myself against the event of a real crash – our auto insurance only covers us up to the value of our vehicle, which is a fraction of the value of the vehicle we rented), so I didn’t sweat the details. But the only thing I signed was at the rental counter before I had even set foot on the lot and viewed the car. And when I left the lot, an attendant scanned the sticker on the windshield but did not offer to inspect for damage or anything like that (to be fair, of course, I didn’t ask him because I had the LDW anyway…but since I was blocking an exit lane at that point I doubt he would have been thrilled to do it).

A signed contract is one thing – a contract that was signed before the renter could have ever seen the car (making the claim that a signature = proof that it was undamaged patently ridiculous) is another, I’d suspect.
Eric Murray

I am actually going through the same ordeal now, however my situation is slightly different. My wife rented a car from Alamo last Augusta and DFW to drive to ATL. Upon picking up the car from DFW an agent DID do a walk around with her, my wife noticed a small dime-quarter sized door ding on the rear driver side fender and pointed it out to the agent who told my wife it was already taken care of and she had nothing to worry about.

Upon dropping the car off in ATL at the airport, the agent spotted the dent and asked my wife about it, my wife stated that it was a pre-existing dent and the agent stated that it was not noted on the damage sheet when she rented the car. The situation escalated since my wife was well aware that she did point it out prior and the agent stated that it was “taken care of”.

About a month later we received a call from Alamo telling us that we owed them 2000$ for the damage to the car, my wife clearly explained the situation to the agent and the agent told my wife that they would check in to the situation and would contact us again. A year went by and no contact from Alamo was received either by phone or mail, until about a week ago when the collection agency started calling my wife, because Alamo referred the debt to them without ever giving us a chance to fight the debt.

On top of all of it my wife purchased the additional insurance which the agent on the phone, the one time they actually called, claimed they were not aware of this?

After reading MULTIPLE accounts of Alamo doing the same thing to other people, I am beginning to believe that it is an on-going scam by the company itself, anyone have any suggestions how to resolve this?
Elenor

I always very carefully annotate the rental form with all the scratches and dings on a careful inspection. When I get to the exit gate, I get out of the car and have the check-out person look WITH me at the stuff I’ve marked and sign the form. (What — s/he is going to say, hell no?!) I’ve never had a query — I kinda guess because anyone who pushes it that far is likely not a good prospect for a scam! I have not taken photos before, but I will also do that from now on.

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