Who’s really to blame for these absurd luggage rules?

Just the mention of the words “baggage” and “rule” in the same sentence is enough to raise the blood pressure of the average air traveler.

But Ellie Duram’s story is special. It’s a series of run-ins with pure airline ridiculousness that it merits a closer look, and prompts a bigger question: Who’s responsible for the sad state of affairs, when it comes to luggage?

Let’s start with an incident that happened a few months ago on a Delta Air Lines flight from Wichita, Kan., to Detroit. Duram was spending a week with her sister, so she paid Delta $25 for a checked bag.

“At the luggage carousel in Detroit, everybody else on my flight picked up their bag and left,” she remembers. “After an hour my bag had not shown up, so I went to the baggage claim office. The gal asked me: ‘How long has it been?’ When I said an hour, she said: ‘It’s only been an hour? If it doesn’t show up in two hours, you come back and tell me.’”

Two hours later, still no sign of her missing bag. Her sister was circling the terminal, waiting to pick up Duram. Finally, she returned to the luggage office and asked again. An airline representative radioed someone and assured her the bag would be there – and sure enough, two hours and fifteen minutes later, she was reunited with her luggage.

Duram asked Delta to refund her $25, but it refused. After all, it had transported her bag from Wichita to Detroit; just not at exactly the same time as her.

New government rules require an airline to refund your baggage fee if it loses your property. But it wouldn’t have done her any good. Delta and other airlines typically only consider a bag “lost” if it’s missing in action for more than 21 days (have a look at Delta’s customer commitment).

Duram is baffled by the silliness of Delta’s refusal, so she decides to carry her bag on her next flight to Atlanta (again, on Delta). After her flight landed, the fun began.

“The compartment directly over my head, where my bag was, would not open,” she says. “The pilot showed up and pounded on it. He couldn’t get it pryed open either, so he said: ‘I’ll need to call a mechanic.’”

The mechanic finally opened the compartment, but she missed her connecting flight and ended up spending the night in Atlanta at Delta’s expense. Delta even threw in a voucher for the trouble, because somewhere along the way, a Delta representative said she’d also been bumped from her connecting flight. (Technically, hers was a “mechanical” delay, but Delta treated it like an involuntary denied boarding situation – either way, airlines are required to compensate customers when those happen.)

And then, the kicker — when Duram tried to redeem the voucher, she encountered a common but aggravating problem: the phone reservation fee.

“The cost of the flight was $483 so with my $400 voucher I figured I would need to charge $83 to my credit card,” she says. “Wrong. They charged $108 to my card. Why? Because I phoned in my reservation!”

That’s right, a $25 fee applies to each phone reservation. And the only way to redeem the voucher is by phone.

If you didn’t hear yourself exclaiming, “That’s ridiculous!” as you read Duram’s account, then maybe you work for an airline.

Her story is as absurd as it is common.

Here’s what should have happened: Delta should have coughed up Duram’s luggage fee without her having to ask for it. The $25 fee is paid with the understanding that the bag will be delivered with the passenger.

That might have prevented her from wedging what was probably an oversize bag into her overhead compartment on her next flight, and maybe she would have made her connecting flight to Wichita.

And then Duram wouldn’t have had to deal with the preposterous voucher redemption system that requires users to pay a $25 usage fee. (You’d think an airline as sophisticated as Delta would figure out a way of allowing online redemptions – unless, of course, the phone redemptions were a profit center.)

I don’t mean to pick on Delta. The same kinds of stories are told about other legacy airlines, who have their own kind of logic and sense of customer service that defies any convention.

But what’s truly amazing – ridiculous, really – is that we let them. So-called watchdogs say these dumb rules are necessary in order for an airline to turn a profit. Airline apologists who specialize in collecting useless airline miles say any criticism of the rules comes because we really don’t have an insider-level understanding of the airline business, which is apparently required in order to comment on anything an airline does, no matter how outrageous.

And, of course, we passengers perpetuate this system because we pay for it without questioning it. Perhaps that’s the most ridiculous thing of all.

  • TonyA_says

    Those in AGIFORS are experts. I worked with a number of them.

  • Carchar

    I’m surprised Daddy didn’t have to sit with 2 children. I thought there would not be enough oxygen masks for Mommy and 3 children should there have been an emergency.

  • MarkKelling

    Sorry Paul, but I fly regularly on multiple US based airlines and NOBODY checks luggage size anymore.  If you get it through the TSA security checkpoint it gets on a plane.  I have seen people drag more luggage on a plane, such as extra large suit bags, as carry on than I could fill with everything I own.

    On the other hand, when I fly European airlines I have actually had my carry on weighed at the gate and been told I could not take it on the plane because it was too heavy. Luckily I was flying 1st and had a spare bag in my luggage to split things up and the two bags were then acceptable.

  • Cybrsk8r

    So, let me get this straight.  If you buy one of these fares, the airline can just say, “Sorry, we sold too many tickets”, and just leave you standing at the gate, with nothing, and keep your money.  I don’t care where you’re from, that’s illegal.

  • emanon256

    The airline would first ask for volunteers since they are overbooked.  And from what Tony posted, they still have to follow the rules for denied boarding.  So if they are oversold and have can’t find volunteers, and this person gets denied, they would get compensated or re-booked.  However they agent told me some of the non-published are not eligible, they are literally space available tickets, but they are ultra-cheap.  As the saying goes, sometimes the cheap comes out expensive.  I would rather pay more for an advanced seat and not press my luck.

  • TonyA_says

    There’s a good explanation to this delayed baggage problem

    Take a look at the typical Delta flight schedules from ICT to DTW. Here are some of them for tomorrow. Notice there are NO DIRECT FLIGHTS. You either connect in MSP or ATL.

    05APR-TH-1A ICTDTW(ICTDTT) CT ET                
    1*S#DL4802   ICTMSP- 600A 750A  *8 CRJ 0E
    2*S#DL2198      DTW- 835A1121A   8 319 0E
    3*S#DL 948   ICTATL- 630A 933A   7 319 0E
    4*S#DL 748      DTW-1055A 105P   8 332 0E
    5*S#DL4802   ICTMSP- 600A 750A  *8 CRJ 0E
    6*S#DL 881      DTW-1020A 107P   9 320 0E
    7*S#DL 948   ICTATL- 630A 933A   7 319 0E
    8*S#DL1082      DTW-1220P 222P   9 737 0E

    Let’s assume that the OP took the MSP route. Look, further, at the INTER arrival times of MSP-DTW. See how they are spaced about 1.5-2 hours apart. Note: flights from ATL have a similar pattern.

    05APR-TH-1A MSPDTW(MSPDTT) CT ET              
    1*S#DL2240   MSPDTW- 615A 902A   9 757 0E
    2*S#DL2198   MSPDTW- 835A1121A   8 319 0E
    3*S#DL 881   MSPDTW-1020A 107P   9 320 0E
    4*S#DL 142   MSPDTW-1135A 223P   9 319 0E
    5*S#DL 883   MSPDTW- 155P 440P   9 320 0E
    6*S#DL2014   MSPDTW- 330P 616P   7 757 0E
    7*S#DL 887   MSPDTW- 525P 814P   9 M80 0E
    8*S#DL 946   MSPDTW- 730P1016P   9 320 0E
    9*S#DL 570   MSPDTW- 930P1209A#1 9 320 0E

    Now consider the possibility that the OP had a tight connection in MSP and her bags did not make it on the same flight she was taking.
    Ask yourself this question – “would her bag most likely be in the next flight about 2 hours later”?

    Airlines are NOT required to do Positive Passenger Baggage Match (PPBM) for domestic flights unless it is from/to DCA (the seat of absolute power). Therefore, your bags do not have to travel in the same flight as yours.

    That’s probably why the Baggage Assistance personnel asked someone who had access to the Delta’s Baggage (Scanning) System. They knew it was on the next flight and told her to wait 2 hours after her arrival. What’s the point of making her fill up a PIR form when the bag was arriving an hour later after she complained?

    This brings about another point – so many of you jumped to nasty conclusions without even considering that the lowly paid baggage attendant was correct. Maybe you are wrong and she was right.

  • TonyA_says

    Joe, they probably saw the bag scan on the next flight. Hence the 2 hour wait. It was not lost.

  • TonyA_says

    Also remember you are in the bottom of the totem pole with these E-class fares. If a lot of folks need to be reaccommodated, you might end up sleeping in a seedy motel.

    However, at least you earn SkyMiles and MQM on PUBLISHED E-class fares. What a consolation? ;-)

    The biggest issue is people need to know how to SPOT these E-class fares.

  • TonyA_says

    According to my flight schedules, the last plane out of ATL for ICT departs at 830PM (DL1187). Since she stayed overnight in ATL, then she missed this last flight. If she was flying DTW-ATL-ICT then her flight would have likely been:

     FLT.NO      LEG      DEP  TR ARRIVAL TR  EQP  CITY   CT  MCT
      #DL 101   DTW ATL    535P EM  740P    S  757
      #DL1187   ATL ICT    830P  S  947P       319   ATL   DD   35

    If she was flying on Delta’s 757 then there might be a problem shoving bigger luggage in the overhead bins that are pretty “short”.
    In fact seatguru gives this warning on some of DL 757s:

    Overhead bins on this aircraft are small and can only accommodate two average-size suitcases and must be placed sideways.

    If so who is to blame? The overhead bin or the passenger?

  • flutiefan

     that wasn’t what you were talking about when you made it personal.

  • http://twitter.com/p7r Paul Robinson

    FAA rules are derived from ICAO standards, same the World over and true for everything from overhead bin capacities to the size of the lettering on the apron signs. Having read the ICAO Annexes I can see why – who would want to reinvent that pile of turgid nonsense? – but I also don’t see the point in doing that if nobody is going to actually implement it properly. The sizer is there for a reason – if airlines aren’t using them, no wonder there is chaos on boarding… :-(

  • flutiefan

    “Nobody, and I mean *nobody* at an airline is going to let something bigger than that into the cabin. ”

     i’m an airline employee, and even i have to LOL at that.

    although i personally (and many of my coworkers) do try to stop the Overhead Bin Hogs, we see customers on every airline bringing things on that would never fit in the box. many agents just don’t want the argument (not that it makes it right, just stating why).

  • flutiefan

     not “nobody”, Mark! i do!

  • http://twitter.com/p7r Paul Robinson

    That was a storm in a teacup, LHR T5 was not tested enough before it went live and there was much finger-pointing. Since that first week though, it’s one of the best systems going (allegedly).

    The OP’s point stands though, if the customer hadn’t been treated badly whilst her sister was driving around outside waiting for her, she wouldn’t have felt the need to cram into the overhead bins and all of this could have been avoided.

    Blaming it all on a stupid and/or ungrateful customer to me sounds like a real lack of compassion and understanding relating to her needs. The industry needs to do better than this.

  • flutiefan

     can you explain the success of the most heavily unionized airline in America, then?  since unions are the bad guys, after all, and you say they’re causing all the airlines to go out of business.  just wondering what your response is to actual facts and not opinions? (pssssst…. it’s SWA, by the way, who is the most unionized)

  • http://twitter.com/p7r Paul Robinson

    Seems like the confusion here then is a cultural one. I wouldn’t dream of trying to get through check-in or security in Europe (where I do most of my travel) with anything outside the regs, as it would just get binned at the airport most likely.

  • flutiefan

     BEAUTIFUL!

  • http://twitter.com/p7r Paul Robinson

    We’re going to have to agree to disagree: I still maintain it’s the airline who should have dealt with this. The customer bought a ticket, expected a moderate level of service, reasonably expected in the 21st century to not have to spend 2 hours researching the conditions/law relating to the travel service, and then got talked to as if she was a moron when things went wrong. It’s just not how service companies should work. I know you disagree, but there we are, it’s where we both stand on this.

  • TonyA_says

    The ICAO numbers you gave us earlier is even bigger (larger) than the FAA number. Now if I use the FAA size and check in with Alitalia or go try to enter HKG airport departure zone, I will be in trouble. That’s why I have 2 sets of handcarry. One I use in domestic USA and another (smaller and lighter) for Europe and Asia.

    In reality, in the USA, you can take whatever you like as long as it fits the overhead bin and lift it yourself. However, if you fly one of our small regional puddle jumpers, they will stop you and gate check your big bag. (Probably steal your laptop or iPod if you leave it.)

    This why I said the airlines decide their own carryon rules. Usually based on PROFITABILITY.

    When I use Delta INTL to go to inner France, they usually put a sticker (CABIN BAGGAGE) before boarding in JFK. That is to alert Air France not to grab my carryon in CDG since AF (intra Europe and domestic) standards are a lot more stringent that ours in the USA.

    If you get to know me better, you will realize that I am not an airline apologist or shill. I do sell Delta because lots of my customers depend on its route. I never worked for them, though. Peace and welcome here to the board. Cheers, Tony.

  • Sadie_Cee

    You have said it loud and clear!  The Walmart example is so, so true!

  • AUSSIEtraveller

    next time travel light or pay the fees & stop whinging.

    Airlines are going broke all over the wrold esp in Europe & USA, partly due to high oil prices, but also partly due to bureaucracy.

    More rules, more costs & somone has to pay the costs & guess who that will be. Either passenger or airline goes broke.

    It’s really simple.

    Sometimes it’s good when airlines close down. It makes people realise that high wages/costs & low fares don’t mix.

  • http://twitter.com/BarbadosTrvlBlg Barbados Travel Blog

    The airlines can do a lot better and it sucks that you have to put laws in place to protect customers. The same customers that the airlines need to stay in business. It’s a simple A+B = C equation.

  • TonyA_says

    Isn’t this the reason why USA carriers publish a Contract of Carriage and a Customer Service Plan as required by US LAW. The moderate service you are talking about is published there.
    If you want them to UPGRADE their commitment then fine that is your opinion.

    You might not agree with the CONTENTS of these documents, but that’s the way we do business in America. This information is easily accessible from the airline’s website. No one is forced to fly Delta. If they want free baggage, there is always Southwest and JetBlue. My family flies WN and B6 whenever we can for domestic flights. Cheap and good.

  • TonyA_says

     It ain’t that simple.

    Warren Buffett on Investing in the Airline Industry:
    “… despite putting in billions and billions and billions of dollars,
    the net return to owners from being in the entire airline industry, if
    you owned it all, and if you put up all this money, is less than zero.”
    STUDENT: “Mr. Buffett, what prompted you to make an investment
    in USAir given the fact that this is such a cut-throat industry,
    and certainly not transparent and easily understandable?” 

    MR. BUFFETT: “Well, I think probably the best answer is temporary
    insanity.”

    “If there had been a capitalist down there [at Kitty Hawk the day the
    Wright brothers made their first flight] the guy should have shot down
    Wilbur!  I mean … [audience laughter].  You know… one small step
    for mankind, and one huge step backwards for capitalism!” 

    “But anyway…. So along comes 1989 and I’ve got a lot of cash. 
    And no one misled me in any way shape or form.  And I mean this was
    100% my decision [to invest in USAir].  And I put money in it. 
    Seth Scofield [CEO of USAir at the time], you can’t find a better human
    being or manager than Seth Scofield, but he is operating with revenues
    based on market factors and cost that are not based market factors, and
    that’s a recipe for a lot of trouble.”

    “So I now have this 800 [telephone] number, and if I ever get the urge
    to buy an airline stock I dial this number.  And I say my name is
    Warren, and I’m an “air-o-holic,” and then this guy talks me down on the
    other end [of the line]….”

    http://www.oocities.org/peopleplanes/Carrier/WB.html

  • MarkKelling

    OK.  Then you must be the exception these days.  Glad somebody still checks.

  • TonyA_says

    Mark, with WN’s 2 FREE BAGs, wouldn’t bringing in a huge bag seem over the top?

    WN incentivizes the crew for ontime and early departure. These folks take pride in their unique  boarding scheme (and won’t let an oversized bag get in the way).
    This is the reason why no other carrier cycles their aircraft more than WN. They fully understand the effect of carry-ons on turn around times. (Allowing 2 free bags is not only good for customer service, it is also good for operations.)

    Please read the charts from Boeing
    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_01/textonly/t01txt.html#fig1

    IMO this is the only airline (and perhaps B6) that gets IT.  No surprise Southwest has been profitable (despite 2 Free Bags).

  • Ann Lamoy

    I had an instance once when I was flying back East to visit family-SEA to BTV. When I got to BTV and waited at the carousel for my bag, it didn’t appear. When I went into the baggage claim office to fill out the paperwork, I happened to turn around and my bag was sitting right there. Apparently back at SEA they had scanned it on an earlier flight that connected through DTW (about an hour before mine got in). I hadn’t wanted to book that because it was winter and the connection was too tight. I was afraid if the weather was the least bit bad in DTW, I would miss the connection. So my bag made it to BTW before I did. :-)

    I LOL for a couple of days over that. (It was Delta btw)

  • Ann Lamoy

    I still check my bag. Mainly because I hate trying to shove it into the OHB, drag it out and down the plane aisle. I do routinely fly Delta and just two years ago got an AMEX Skymiles card simply for the benefit of getting the checked bag free. I’d still check even if I didn’t have the card.

    I fly often enough that it pays for the yearly fee. (and the places I fly to, Delta is usually the cheapest option for me. Wish I could afford a better option but unless my employer decides to start giving out raises that barely cover the COL, that isn’t going to happen.)

  • bayareascott

    The way they should have?  Why should the gate agent have had to put up with some idiot’s “quite a fit”?  If you tell 10 people to check a bag at the gate, 8 of them will practically throw tantrums.  No one should have to put up with that, and yet it goes on every day.  When are some of you travelers going to speak up when the guy next to you starts ranting and raving?  But you’ll bitch plenty when a gate agent is not “doing their job” and making people check their bags.

  • TonyA_says

    Ann, it also happened to me once. I found my bag in the middle of the floor after all the bags in the carousel were gone. It got there before me (on an earlier flight). That incident taught me to scan the bags at the floor before the carousel begins to go around.

    What happened to your bag and my bag just shows that  in the USA, there is no guarantee your bags will travel in the same flight with you.

  • TonyA_says

    Perhaps Delta can learn from y’alls Ryan Air or EasyJet. The words compassion and Ryan Air also don’t go together.

    BTW Delta gave her a $400 voucher and a free night’s stay. What would European airlines do? I don’t believe they will do more for delayed luggage since they will invoke the Montreal Convention. EC261 won’t compensate you if you miss a connection because you got you own luggage stuck. In fact, it the EU she wouldn’t have been able to get a large carryon into the cabin.

  • Steve_in_WI

    I think it’s absurd that airlines aren’t required by law to refund baggage fees if the checked bag doesn’t show up on the same flight. The fact that they eventually got the bag to its owner is not good enough.

    Reading about Ms. Duram’s experience with Delta gives me a new appreciation for Southwest, even when they lost my bag. I went to the baggage office after waiting about 15 minutes for my bag to appear (it was pretty obvious that all of the bags from the flight had arrived), and the person I spoke to was sympathetic and immediately got the lost bag process started. I would have been livid if she’d just shrugged and told me to wait around for another 2 hours. I also got what I felt to be fair compensation for the lost bag in about 6 weeks. I still don’t understand how a bag can simply disappear, but at least Southwest seemed to want to do the right thing once it did.

  • Sometime_flier

    No, actually, I *don’t* bitch about things when they aren’t necessarily by the book or not to my liking or whatever, thankyouverymuch. It happens. I just roll with it.

    I didn’t say gate agents should *have* to take that sort of behavior, but the sad fact is that it happens because there are always people who think the rules don’t apply to them. That still doesn’t mean it’s up to me or anyone else not in an official position to get involved.

  • Lindabator

    No – we are also discussing what she was/was not entitled to.  Tony is just pointing out the facts – you don’t have to like them, or even agree with them, but you do have to aknowledge them.  The fact that customer service reeks today – that’s neither here nor there in this case.

  • Lindabator

    SHOULD be being operative here – as I’m sure YOU well know as well :)

  • Lindabator

    AMEN!

  • Lindabator

    Again – I think he likes comparing apples to oranges, Tony.  Just forget about it.

  • Lindabator

    NO NO – the cancellation/no show referred to above is one made by the PASSENGER, not the airline.  If the airline cancels a flight, you are still covered.  This is just a bare bones ticket that you HAVE to use for that day, that flight, with NO pre-assigned seat(s), and cannot whine about it later.  (Guess we’ll see about that here sooner or later)

  • Lindabator

    Right – I think he saw the cancellation/no show above and misunderstodd – THAT refers to a cancellation/no show by passenger, not the airline.  If the airline has to cancel, all regular coverage applies.

  • Lindabator

    Actually, I did see something online that you can purchase a package which gives you the abaility to collect miles, so still confused on that point.  Either way – it is a nightmare!

  • TonyA_says

    Linda, Delta E (Economy Basic) published fares will earn 100% Skymiles and MQM. That’s the consolation prize.

  • jim6555

    My memories of flying on People Express do not include having to pay for checked bags. I believe that the first US based airline to institute this policy was Allegiant Air. In 2008, I paid $6.00 to check a bag on an Allegiant flight from St.Petersburg, FL to Greenville, SC. I paid this amount online. The cost would have been more if I had paid at the airport on the day of travel.

  • Dave_Z

    “I’ve lowered my expectations.”

    Nah. You just made them more realistic.

  • Dave_Z

    Understandable. If anything, a challenge is how to balance customers’ expectations with whatever available resources, especially if they’re arguably stretched beyond what they’re willing to bear.

  • y_p_w

    I don’t know if you would trust Wikipedia articles, but the article there claims that People Express charged $3 per checked bag on certain flights.

    American was definitely charging for the first checked back as early as June 2008.

    http://www.seattlepi.com/business/article/American-will-charge-for-all-checked-baggage-1274083.php