Solve this hotel "riddle"

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Aug 28, 2015
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If you have a chance, could you guys read the attached paragraph, excerpted from a large hotel company's t&c and tell me what you think it means. I only see it meaning one thing but would gratefully appreciate your feedback. Specifically, in terms of deadlines.
 

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Grant Ritchie

Dependable adequacy :-)
Oct 1, 2014
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I'm guessing your confusion (and mine too) is over the first paragraph. It's worded in such as way as to lead you to believe that if you guarantee your reservation with a credit card, then you're a no-show, the "Property" will hold your room until the check-out time of the second day, and only charge your card for the first night to "determine the validity of the card."

Then, if your card is found to be valid, the "Property" will hold your room for a second day. How nice of them. And Ma and Pa Kettle won't expect to be charged anything... until the credit card bill arrives.

Then, M&P will find out that, sure, the room was held for two days, but if they didn't show up, they got billed for both those days! What a slimy way to dupe the unwitting.

Dirtbags. :mad:

 
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travellerdan

Guest
No, no, no. They hold the room for one night. You could even show up in the morning for a couple of hours and occupy the room until checkout. It makes sense as you would have paid for it and they make sure you would have paid for it by "authorizing" your card in advance.
 
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Neil Maley

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Dec 27, 2014
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I am reading it the way VoR61 is. But then there are so many other things in the terms, such as cancellation policies, some pre-paid are non-cancel able and non-refundable. I don't trust the vague statement in the first paragraph. If you are a no show in the first instance, I can't believe they aren't going to charge you for the first night. And then there is information

Cancellation Information
Cancellation policies and other information about specific room reservations and Properties may vary by Property and by the type of reservation and may entail a cancellation penalty or processing fee. To cancel or modify a reservation made online, please visit lhw.com. Reservations made through a travel agent must be cancelled through that agent, as the agency controls the record. For assistance with all other reservations, please contact LHW at 1-800-223-6800 if you are calling from the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands. Otherwise, please contact your nearest LHW Reservations Office. For all cancellations made through LHW, a cancellation number will be provided to you. A cancellation number is required as proof of cancellation, but will have no effect on any cancellation penalty or fee that may be due pursuant to the applicable cancellation policy. Please note that reservations cannot be canceled via e-mail.

Have you called to try to determine what the heck they mean? There is just too much conflicting information in the t & c. When a lawyer is confused about t and c, there is something wrong with them!

You know we are still waiting to find out what happened with your flights.
 
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VoR61

Jan 6, 2015
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Of equal concern to me is that they can give away your room if you hold without a card and arrive after the cancellation deadline! So if it says 6PM the day of, or 6PM the week before, or the month before even = lost reservation.
 
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Jan 5, 2015
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Of equal concern to me is that they can give away your room if you hold without a card and arrive after the cancellation deadline! So if it says 6PM the day of, or 6PM the week before, or the month before even = lost reservation.
I don't see the issue. Hold it with a card if you're going to arrive late.
 
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VoR61

Jan 6, 2015
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I don't see the issue. Hold it with a card if you're going to arrive late.
It isn't about arriving late. If the property says the cancel by date is a full month before you arrive, with no card offered to hold they will no longer hold the room(s). Thus you have to give them a card well before you arrive.
 
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Jan 5, 2015
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It isn't about arriving late. If the property says the cancel by date is a full month before you arrive, with no card offered to hold they will no longer hold the room(s). Thus you have to give them a card well before you arrive.
It says the cancellation time...which they don't explicitly state but is usually 6 pm.
 
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VoR61

Jan 6, 2015
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It says the cancellation time...which they don't explicitly state but is usually 6 pm.
Right. But I'm seeing more hotels that say 4PM or even the day before. And of course, there's the ones that specify weeks or a month.

But in all my reservations, we know we can show up later than 6PM and still have a room. We do hold with a card, but for the "no card" option I envision flat tires, traffic, etc. and having to stop what you're doing and remember to call. But as you said, you can just hold with the card ...
 

JVillegirl541

Verified Member
Nov 21, 2014
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Depends on your invoice and the stated terms if you have reserved a room with a promo that had extra conditions ;)
 
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Oct 5, 2015
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With card guarantee: held until check-out time next day (guest may be charged for that night)
Without card guarantee: held only until cancellation deadline
The will authorize HOLD only to verify if the credit card is good.
They do not say they will complete the charge if you don't show up.
 
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Aug 28, 2015
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Thank you for the replies. I was in transit and am finally here. This is what the hotel pulled, so I need to get dispute ready. We were supposed to arrive 6am on Friday. I booked the hotel beginning Thurs. night so the room would be ready upon arrival. We missed our flight so would be arriving Sat am, instead. I booked through Amex FHR. I understood I would be charged for the night we were not there. Based on the above policy, the hotel cancels your reservation if you don't show up by checkout on the next day, if they don't hear from you. I am interpreting the policy in its strictest sense. That would be 12 pm, Hawaii time on Friday.
On Friday 11 am NY time, I called Amex and asked them to let the hotel know I would be arriving Sat am instead, and I noticed the hotel had already charged Thurs night, as expected. About an hour later, 6 am Hawaii time, Amex calls back to tell me I won't believe this but the hotel cancelled my res. We were stunned. She adds that the hotel could still accommodate me in the same room but it would cost 2x the price, for my own reserved room. I refused and had to dispute the $600 they charged for Thurs. I had no problem paying for it so long as our agreement remained the same and they would accommodate me. My position is they broke the agreement prematurely, they didn't wait until the above-stated time before cancelling and doubling the price so there is no way I am paying them for a room I couldn't use. They seem to have cancelled the reservation before I was even scheduled to arrive in the first place (We had told them it would be a 6am arrival).
Amex also added it was very rare a property would not contact them or me before doing something like this anyway. Mind you this is December and I was nearly on my way to the airport. Luckily, there was a cancellation somewhere else I liked. Should I even bother to contact the hotel at this point? As soon as the charge posts I will dispute it, of course.
 
Aug 28, 2015
3,729
2,899
113
New York
More concise version: Room was guaranteed with credit card, as para. 1 states, the hotel charges the first night and holds it until checkout the day after scheduled arrival, in my case 11/12 noon Friday. They cancelled my reservation at least as early as 5 am Friday. They may not keep the cost of the first night. I wasn't even supposed to show up until 6am and would have not been even allowed to use the room I paid for if I had.
 
Oct 5, 2015
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Can we answer all your questions without knowing the PROPERTY?
I guess every rate and every reservation type can have its own rules.
 

VoR61

Jan 6, 2015
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Thank you for the replies. I was in transit and am finally here. This is what the hotel pulled, so I need to get dispute ready. We were supposed to arrive 6am on Friday. I booked the hotel beginning Thurs. night so the room would be ready upon arrival. We missed our flight so would be arriving Sat am, instead. I booked through Amex FHR. I understood I would be charged for the night we were not there. Based on the above policy, the hotel cancels your reservation if you don't show up by checkout on the next day, if they don't hear from you. I am interpreting the policy in its strictest sense. That would be 12 pm, Hawaii time on Friday.
On Friday 11 am NY time, I called Amex and asked them to let the hotel know I would be arriving Sat am instead, and I noticed the hotel had already charged Thurs night, as expected. About an hour later, 6 am Hawaii time, Amex calls back to tell me I won't believe this but the hotel cancelled my res. We were stunned. She adds that the hotel could still accommodate me in the same room but it would cost 2x the price, for my own reserved room. I refused and had to dispute the $600 they charged for Thurs. I had no problem paying for it so long as our agreement remained the same and they would accommodate me. My position is they broke the agreement prematurely, they didn't wait until the above-stated time before cancelling and doubling the price so there is no way I am paying them for a room I couldn't use. They seem to have cancelled the reservation before I was even scheduled to arrive in the first place (We had told them it would be a 6am arrival).
Amex also added it was very rare a property would not contact them or me before doing something like this anyway. Mind you this is December and I was nearly on my way to the airport. Luckily, there was a cancellation somewhere else I liked. Should I even bother to contact the hotel at this point? As soon as the charge posts I will dispute it, of course.
Here's the timeline I get from your post:

All times below are HI time (-5 hours from NY) ...
Room booked for Thu night
Checkout is 12 AM Friday
Friday at 6 AM you asked Amex to change to Saturday
Friday at 7AM Amex says it's cancelled

The policy states that a room held with Amex would be cancelled at check-out time the following day. So, if the above times are correct, they cancelled at least 5 hours too early ...
 

JVillegirl541

Verified Member
Nov 21, 2014
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You really need to tell us the specific name of the property so we don't spin our wheels. Lots of properties do seem to have "enhanced" rules during the Holiday. Also your invoice may have spelled out any special terms attached to your booking.
We need to see that too :)

Amex has enormious pull, why aren't they fighting this battle for you??
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
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New York
www.promalvacations.com
I agree about Amex and I am not surprised that there was a hotel problem, based on that ridiculous wording at Leading Hotels. Have you contacted Leading Hotels, since THEY are the ones who have that confusing policy, not the hotel?

And should be fighting this for you too since they booked you !
 
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