PayPal account inaccessible due to new rules. They refuse to help. I can't even close my account.

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Jul 2, 2020
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To combat fraud banks and money services have to follow new rules. When an account holder logs on, a new additional process is needed. PayPal sends a one time number to the account holder's mobile 'phone. No one thought out what an account holder does if they do not have a mobile 'phone or if an account holder lives in an area where there is no mobile signal. Any normal person would accept that they could not use PayPal in future and would use a land line or post or email to communicate with PayPal to close the account. This is made impossible by PayPal.
This is where PayPal demonstrate that they are at best managed by incompetent people, or at worst purposely make it impossible for disgruntled users to
contact them to resolve matters so that PayPal can continue to use account holder's funds when the account holder wishes to close the account.
I will list what action I have taken which
amounts to many hours which add up to days.
After much effort I did find an address for PayPal's CEO. A legal notice to them is ignored.
Their 'Chat Box' is manned by people who are little better than computers which are programmed to answer questions with answers that are designed to address common questions. I came to the conclusion that failure to resolve problems are by design not accident. I was advised several times by different operatives to 'phone my problems to their 'dedicated' helpline. After literally 4 minutes of being given various options a
recorded message cuts in and states, "That due to coronavirus problems, this help line is not manned". The call is then terminated. Many other company's operatives work from home as indeed does the UK's Crown Prosecution Service.
If one finds an email address after much diligent searching the answer that one receives does not address the email that is sent. It seems that the email is answered by a computer.
Eventually I trapped a chat line operative to admit that she was not allowed to escalate my complaint. She then agreed to send me an email giving my present account transactions. She would not close my account and insisted that there was a zero balance when there should be about 700$ in the account in pound sterling. I did not get that email.
So two months later here I am using this forum. Can anybody help please?
 
Jul 2, 2020
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To combat fraud banks and money services have to follow new rules. When an account holder logs on, a new additional process is needed. PayPal sends a one time number to the account holder's mobile 'phone. No one thought out what an account holder does if they do not have a mobile 'phone or if an account holder lives in an area where there is no mobile signal. Any normal person would accept that they could not use PayPal in future and would use a land line or post or email to communicate with PayPal to close the account. This is made impossible by PayPal.
This is where PayPal demonstrate that they are at best managed by incompetent people, or at worst purposely make it impossible for disgruntled users to
contact them to resolve matters so that PayPal can continue to use account holder's funds when the account holder wishes to close the account.
I will list what action I have taken which
amounts to many hours which add up to days.
After much effort I did find an address for PayPal's CEO. A legal notice to them is ignored.
Their 'Chat Box' is manned by people who are little better than computers which are programmed to answer questions with answers that are designed to address common questions. I came to the conclusion that failure to resolve problems are by design not accident. I was advised several times by different operatives to 'phone my problems to their 'dedicated' helpline. After literally 4 minutes of being given various options a
recorded message cuts in and states, "That due to coronavirus problems, this help line is not manned". The call is then terminated. Many other company's operatives work from home as indeed does the UK's Crown Prosecution Service.
If one finds an email address after much diligent searching the answer that one receives does not address the email that is sent. It seems that the email is answered by a computer.
Eventually I trapped a chat line operative to admit that she was not allowed to escalate my complaint. She then agreed to send me an email giving my present account transactions. She would not close my account and insisted that there was a zero balance when there should be about 700$ in the account in pound sterling. I did not get that email.
So two months later here I am using this forum. Can anybody help please?
FOLLOW UP FROM ORIGINATOR.
I have followed the advice below and sent this to PayPal. (I have already used the first and lower level email to receive stupid replies.)

You will see after reading the below that I have cause to complain about the employees of PayPal treating me very badly. I suspect that the reader of this message will continue to do the same. I state this because I have learned a lot about PayPal while spending many hours trying to resolve what is in effect a simple issue. It is clear that the employees of the various help sections are trained to block complaints. I now have been forced to seek help from a professional outside source. I will be using them to seek compensation from PayPal for the many hours that I have wasted and the harm that PayPal is continuing to cause me. I now have the addresses previously hidden by PayPal and I am following the advice, given by the advocate, by starting at the lower level and then gradually escalating the process until my problem caused by PayPal is resolved. This will give me the necessary evidence when I later seek compensation.
I copy below the details of my complaint sent to my advocate who advised me of the correct process to follow.
 
Jul 2, 2020
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Im not sure what sort of “legal notice” was sent but they may refuse to communicate with you directly because of it. If you threatened to get a lawyer involved, their legal team will await contact from your lawyer.
From the originator. Thanks for your reply. I operate under UK Law. I accept your comment regarding PayPal's executive refusing to reply. I suspect that they rely on people giving up pursuing their complaint at the first hurdle. The normal next step after their refusal to respond would be to employ a solicitor or make a civil claim in the courts. Both of these are time consuming and expensive processes which so far has deterred me from using these methods. Using Elliott .org's suggestions I may get evidence from their replies to pursue the matter further should they refuse to act correctly and send me a statement of my account.
 
Jul 2, 2020
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FOLLOW UP FROM ORIGINATOR.
I have followed the advice below and sent this to PayPal. (I have already used the first and lower level email to receive stupid replies.)

You will see after reading the below that I have cause to complain about the employees of PayPal treating me very badly. I suspect that the reader of this message will continue to do the same. I state this because I have learned a lot about PayPal while spending many hours trying to resolve what is in effect a simple issue. It is clear that the employees of the various help sections are trained to block complaints. I now have been forced to seek help from a professional outside source. I will be using them to seek compensation from PayPal for the many hours that I have wasted and the harm that PayPal is continuing to cause me. I now have the addresses previously hidden by PayPal and I am following the advice, given by the advocate, by starting at the lower level and then gradually escalating the process until my problem caused by PayPal is resolved. This will give me the necessary evidence when I later seek compensation.
I copy below the details of my complaint sent to my advocate who advised me of the correct process to follow.
FURTHER FOLLOW UP FROM THE ORIGINATOR
I received what I presume to be an automated response from PayPal email address . This advised me to log into my account to correct matters. They have made this impossible for me to do. I now have taken the next step and wrote the following to the email address jrainey

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Dear J Rainey,
You will see from the below correspondence that PayPal are trying to evade their legal responsibilities. The reply from your company copied below (3rd July 2020 0734) places me in an impossible position . It suggests logging into my account to use the email address listed on my account. PayPal refuses me access to my account due to PayPal imposing new conditions. Contract law dictates that before changes can be made to an agreed terms of an existing contract then the new terms must be agreed by both parties. The first time that I became aware that you had unilaterally changed the terms of my contract with PayPal was when I tried to access my account. My experience trying to resolve this matter in a reasonable and amicable way resulted in showing up PayPal's methods as either incompetence or purposeful fraud. I seek two things.
1) a written statement of my account showing all transactions from the time our contract started to the present date.
I enforce my demand by requiring PayPal to give me the details held on my account as required by the UK law regarding companies being required to give any personal details held by a company . This is known under UK law as a Subject access request.
2) Compensation for the time wasted by myself because of the failure of PayPal to resolve my complaint in a timely manner. Your records will show that if one accepts that a working day is 8 hours then I have spent over a day trying to resolve this matter.

I copy below the correspondence sent to your [email protected]

 
Jul 13, 2016
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I am afraid your long emails, accusations and threats are hindering the solution. Your desired resolution is to gain access to your Paypal account and remove the remaining balance, correct? Threatening legal action and insisting on vague compensation is going to get your letter sent straight to Paypal's legal department who will do nothing until you actually bring a suit against them.

You should start over using our contacts and make it a brief and non-accusatory letter. The CS rep does not want to wade through paragraphs to figure out the problem. Simply state you have lost access to your account and Paypal's verification protocols cannot be used by you (state why). Ask nicely for help--remember that the customer service rep is not the bad guy-he/she did not set up what you perceive as Draconian practices.

An example:
Dear Paypal,
My name is [BLANK]. I have an account with [XXX dollars] that I am unable to access due to the new security measures and the fact I do not have a mobile phone (or whatever your reason is). Is there another way I can validate my account so I can access my funds? Thank you very much, I really appreciate your help in this matter.

Good luck!
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
23,405
23,376
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
You may have shot yourself in the foot by threatening " I now have been forced to seek help from a professional outside source. I will be using them to seek compensation from PayPal for the many hours that I have wasted and the harm that PayPal is continuing to cause me."

Once you threaten legal action, communications usually cease. if you hear nothing from them - you will need to contact the professional outside source you threatened them with to communicate with them.

If you actually sent that to the contacts - we really wouldn't be able to assist you - we don't get involved with any cases where legal action is involved.
 
Jul 2, 2020
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You may have shot yourself in the foot by threatening " I now have been forced to seek help from a professional outside source. I will be using them to seek compensation from PayPal for the many hours that I have wasted and the harm that PayPal is continuing to cause me."

Once you threaten legal action, communications usually cease. if you hear nothing from them - you will need to contact the professional outside source you threatened them with to communicate with them.

If you actually sent that to the contacts - we really wouldn't be able to assist you - we don't get involved with any cases where legal action is involved.
REPLY BY ORIGINATOR.
I disagree with your assessment particularly. as I indicated in my first post steps that I had already taken to achieve no responses from PayPal.
Having used the address made available to me by Elliott. Org and sending the email in the format that you criticise, I now have received a effusive reply from PayPal which has opened up a communication route.
I agree that one's first approach should be polite and show willingness to accept that there might have been some mistake, but PayPal like many other firms have built around them what can only be described as a Firewall to stop 'important' people in companies being bothered by dissatisfied customers. Elliott.com assisted me by giving me an address that PayPal does not publish. My letter outlining how badly I was treated would cause the 'important' person to realise that they had better sort this problem out because they would lose serious money if the matter went to litigation.
It actually is an honest way to conduct business by laying your cards on the table at an early stage. In law the phrase used is that a party has acted honourably.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
23,405
23,376
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
I don’t disagree with you, I am simply stating what our experience had been once litigation is threatened.

Has your contact resulted in restoration of your account? Please keep us up to date on the outcome.
 
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May 30, 2019
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Dear J Rainey,
You will see from the below correspondence that PayPal are trying to evade their legal responsibilities. The reply from your company copied below (3rd July 2020 0734) places me in an impossible position . It suggests logging into my account to use the email address listed on my account. PayPal refuses me access to my account due to PayPal imposing new conditions. Contract law dictates that before changes can be made to an agreed terms of an existing contract then the new terms must be agreed by both parties. The first time that I became aware that you had unilaterally changed the terms of my contract with PayPal was when I tried to access my account. My experience trying to resolve this matter in a reasonable and amicable way resulted in showing up PayPal's methods as either incompetence or purposeful fraud. I seek two things.
1) a written statement of my account showing all transactions from the time our contract started to the present date.
I enforce my demand by requiring PayPal to give me the details held on my account as required by the UK law regarding companies being required to give any personal details held by a company . This is known under UK law as a Subject access request.
2) Compensation for the time wasted by myself because of the failure of PayPal to resolve my complaint in a timely manner. Your records will show that if one accepts that a working day is 8 hours then I have spent over a day trying to resolve this matter.

I copy below the correspondence sent to your (snip)
I live in the US & wouldn't know how UK laws apply, however I do know that you upped the ante, and they are calling your bluff. You threatened legal action. You made a demand for time / cost other than your monetary damages. Sorry to say, but once you demand something other than your money and use harsh language, the courtesy of customer service (however thin it may have been) ends. I can't make any recommendation for self-advocacy other than to try to restart with reasonable language.

Sorry.
 
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Jul 2, 2020
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I live in the US & wouldn't know how UK laws apply, however I do know that you upped the ante, and they are calling your bluff. You threatened legal action. You made a demand for time / cost other than your monetary damages. Sorry to say, but once you demand something other than your money and use harsh language, the courtesy of customer service (however thin it may have been) ends. I can't make any recommendation for self-advocacy other than to try to restart with reasonable language.

Sorry.
Originators reply.
Had I not upped the ante, as you put it, I would not have received a reply. By adding the statutory duty, requiring them to give me information that they hold on me, they have now been forced to respond. If you and I were in dispute I could easily overcome your weak attitude. Some sensible companies realise that the customer is their livelihood. Until such as PayPal realise this they will continue to lose market share. I am not advocating not using a first polite request, but when such as Pay Pal have machinery set up to deter people with a genuine cause to complain then one has to use legal force. Some replies that I have received to this leads me to suspect that the responders are working for those 'generous' companies sponsoring Ellitt.Org. I have a long history of dealing with commercial concerns, including all state organisations who are actually registered corporations (if you don't believe me check it out). Some behave honourably and try to help those they sell goods to or serve. Others like PayPal evade their moral and legal duty. In those cases a threat like that I made to PayPal achieves a response. Other cases require one to continue with the legal process to see it through to a just conclusion.
 
May 30, 2019
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Some replies that I have received to this leads me to suspect that the responders are working for those 'generous' companies sponsoring Ellitt.Org.
Um ...

We're volunteers here. My feedback was honest and sincere based on my prior experiences with PayPal as a customer and managing customer service issues at a completely unrelated organization, albeit in the US. My apologies if you aren't happy with it.

If you do some research on this board and elsewhere, you can learn that PayPal has to follow many multinational rules around avoiding financial fraud, and can be at times overzealous to ensure compliance. You may need a UK lawyer to understand the nature of your PayPal freeze and get your funds. Otherwise, my best recommendation is to reread Post #7. There have times were the end solution was a check cash-out of funds.

My thematic about trying to get more flies with honey applies -- if you threaten people or organizations or push with negative comments, you are more likely to get a negative outcome.
 
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Jul 2, 2020
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Originator's reply. Fair enough. I accept your explanation. I even accept PayPal's observation that they have to follow financial rules over which they have no control. What I cannot accept is the way PayPal is set up in the UK that stops one communicating with anyone who has responsibility to correct problems. It begs the question why I had to use the address provided by Elliott.org, which was not available elsewhere. I found after literally three days of persistent questioning that PayPal in the UK is set up so that people with genuine causes for complaint are ignored. The internet has many examples of other sufferers.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
9,904
10,711
113
San Francisco
It's always the same with internet-entity issues. A consumer is unhappy with the way they do business. The consumer thinks he can "change them" to operate in a way the consumer wishes. When the consumer is educated about how they operate, s/he often resorts to accusing us of being involved with the internet-entity. This is patently absurd.

A more helpful approach for the OP is to use the depth of knowledge and experience on this forum and figure out how to solve the problem.
 
Nov 27, 2019
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One issue here may be that it’s not entirely clear what the OP’s problem actually _is_. John, do you not have a mobile phone, and hence are now unable to access your account?
 
Jul 13, 2020
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2 things ...
You say you have 700 dollars in PayPal. And a toss away cell phone runs what 10 or 20 bucks. Why not just get a cheap phone and either go somewhere that there is good signal or connect via wifi ( t-mobile does a great job making your phone the same on wifi as hitting a cell tower so it does not look different to PayPal). Then just send all your cash to your bank. Seems to me that losing 20 bucks is better then 700.00.
I also could swear that they had the option to verify using a land line where the code is verbally given to you.
 

Dwayne Coward

Administrator
Staff Member
Director
Apr 13, 2016
858
1,375
93
St. Louis
The OP has been provided sufficient advice by our forum and the contacts to attempt to resolve this directly with the company. You may wish to consult an attorney if you believe the company isn't abiding by the terms of the agreement for your account. Closing this thread.
 
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