How long is too long for an airline ticket refund?

Talk about an airline delay! / Photo by Phil Ostrow - Flickr
Question: We have been trying to get a refund from Southwest Airlines for almost one year. It’s a refund that Southwest fully admits it owes, but always finds another excuse not to pay. I hope you can help us.

Last spring, my family had tickets to fly from Fort Myers, Fla., to Milwaukee, Wis. When we arrived at the gate, a Southwest agent told us our flight was oversold and that all seats had been assigned. We were denied boarding.

They informed us that we had two options: either accept a refund of the cost of our return flight and find our own way home, or take the next available flight from Ft. Myers to Milwaukee, which was not until two days later.

We took the refund. The agent wrote a check with the numerical amount of $1,387.20. However, she wrote the dollar amount in long-hand as “One Thousand Three Hundred and Seventy Three 40/100.” Therefore, there was a discrepancy in the two identified amounts written on the check.

In all the commotion that was occurring with a number of passengers trying to deal with this same issue, we did not notice Southwest’s error in writing this check. We only discovered the error when we were notified five days later that our bank refused to deposit the check because the dollar amount did not match the legal written amount.

We contacted Southwest by phone, and were told they would write a new check. But we’ve gone back and forth for months, and I’ve been getting passed from one department to another. We’ve also reported this to the Department of Transportation. Still, no check.

As a result of Southwest Airlines’ denying us boarding rights to our scheduled flight, we incurred significant costs to obtain four one-way tickets on another airline. Because we were forced to buy one-way tickets with less than seven days advance purchase, we had to pay the highest rate possible. Can you help us get our money back? — Greg Melgares, Milwaukee, Wis.

Answer: Southwest should have written you a check in the right amount when you couldn’t board. But that’s not all.

Have a look at the airline’s travel policies. Its contract of carriage (PDF download) spells out Southwest’s obligations when you’re turned away at the gate, a process referred to as involuntary denied boarding. Check out section 9 under “Service Interruptions.”

You were entitled to more than just a refund for being kicked off your flight. You should have received twice the sum of the value of your remaining flight coupon or you could have opted for flight vouchers for the same amount.

No question about it, Southwest shorted you.

I’m surprised the Transportation Department didn’t get involved in your case. The involuntary denied boarding compensation requirements are part of federal regulations, and they are well-enforced by the government.

If this ever happens to you again, don’t allow yourself to be processed by a ticket agent. I understand there were crowds at the airport — after all, it was spring break — and that the agents seemed overworked. But this is what they do, and you shouldn’t feel bad if they’re having a stressful day.

Stop the process. Pull up the airline’s contract of carriage on your cellphone and read the paragraphs about involuntary denied boardings. Don’t let them hurry you up and force a resolution. Read the check and make sure it lines up with what the contract says.

I contacted Southwest on your behalf. It called you and apologized, saying the person responsible for your refund had left the company and that your refund had “fallen through the cracks.” It overnighted to you a check for the correct amount and a $500 travel voucher.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

     If you are talking about bad check laws, the attorney general has no authority in a case like this.

  • AAmerican1

    No, I’m not talking about bad checks but rather no checks as described in this case. The AG, at least in the state I reside, has the authority to take action against a business who withholds a refund due a consumer or does not remit in a timely manner, usually no longer than 90 days.

  • flutiefan

     i simply don’t believe them, or a couple other people were late and/or got held up in the TSA line.

    and SWA wasn’t asked about their version of events, they were only contacted about the check discrepancy.

  • flutiefan

     you really do need to relax. i said in my very 1st post that these were my theories, and what was likely possible.

  • jmastron

    That’s probably true about the dates and old compensation, but in that case it should be 3x 1/2, the 2x in compensation plus the refund of the ticket (as I understand from reading the regs, after compensation you retain the ticket, and as with any schedule change are entitled to elect to not fly and get a refund on a non-refundable ticket).  Am I wrong there?

    But either way getting the credit card company involved immediately would have been a good idea.

  • flutiefan

     then why did they throw that part in there?

  • flutiefan

     then why did they throw that part in there?

  • TonyA_says

    The IDB compensation would be 2x one-way fare.
    The remaining value of the ticket is one-way fare (or ~1/2 of the original, full round-trip ticket).

    I think they bought the roundtrip ticket for $346.80 each. That’s why when they were bumped, SWA paid them 2x of the one-way fare which is exactly the same as the roundtrip fare as DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION (cash or check).

    Their unused return trip ticket is still worth half of roundtrip fare or ~$173.40 each. But they are not going to get that in cash. They should get that as travel funds in their SWA accounts.

    So all in all they should get 1.5 times the cost of the roundtrip ticket or 3x the one-way fare (some in cash, the remaining in travel funds).

    I am not sure the credit card company will side with you. And even if it does, you can only recover the portion of the ticket you are owed. I don’t think the credit card company will bat for your denied boarding compensation.

    Personally, my heart always goes to the passengers who are bumped when they come to the airport on time. That point is being disputed by people in this board. I have no evidence they were late. Anyway, IMO even if you get 3x one way fare, you will have an extremely hard time making that pay for a walk-up fare (to get home). Hence this is why I believe it is fundamentally unfair to bump passengers because of airline overbooking.

  • Michael__K

     You didn’t answer.  
    You think the OP’s paid cash (~2k+) for their tickets?

    Or do you think SWA ignored their own refund policy (why?)

    Are you trying to convince us that no one is IDB’d unless they arrive less than 10 minutes before boarding?

    I’ve personally witnessed a tearful family partially-IDB’d with  the spouses and children split up between flights on consecutive days.  They were already pleading their case before I arrived at the departure gate, which was 40+ minutes before departure.

  • Michael__K

    i don’t see any qualifications in your response to my post  (which had nothing to do with your 1st post btw)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    Really?  I’d be curious to see the statute. That’s a new one on me.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

      then why did they throw that part in there? _Flutiefan

    ———-

    Oh I don’t know, perhaps to provide context for the story?  If the story was, “I got a check from SW that was written incorrectly, everyone would wonder, why did you get this check, what was it for, etc.

    I find that people ask for sympathy only when their complaint is weak. But with regards to the cold hard facts of the OPs complaint, they are spot on. They don’t need sympathy, they need their money.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

  • TonyA_says

    @Michael_K:disqus
    If we can gloss over the terminology used by the OP (i.e. refund) and simply concentrate on the story; we can glean some remarkable resemblance or fit to Southwest’s COCs.

    SWA is proud to have a 10-minute rule. IMO the OP complied with the 10-min rule. Since he did comply with the 10-minule rule and he was bumped, therefore he was entitled to the Denied Boarding Compensation.

    SWA COC further states that IDB compensation will be in form of a draft (check). So that is exactly what happened.

    I wish to add that the check is supposed to be good the day it was written. The error on the SWA agent is an error of the company. The delay in righting the error was inexcusable. It violated the (spirit of the) law. The intention of the Overbooking law (14 CFR Part 250 Oversales) is to provide the victim with money so he can buy an alternative way (home).

    People are getting confused about several issues:

    (1) the OP’s use of the term refund. IMO lay people (those who do not work for the airline industry or participate in airline forums) will use a common word like refund to mean money they receive from the carrier. How many travelers will use the phrase Denied Boarding Compensation? That said, a real REFUND makes no sense since SWA’s own policy (Section 4C of COC) states the refunds will be returned as either travel credits or to the original form of payment (i.e. credit card). Therefore, one can conclude that the check issued at the airport could only be a Denied Boarding Compensation.

    (2) LATENESS. According to SWA, the pax is only late is they violate the 10 minute rule. Since the OP was paid IDB compensation it proves he was not late. Had he been late, he was not entitled to a check on the spot.

    What other people may be referring to is the probability of getting bumped. Some even go as far as BLAMING the pax for not checking in early to improve his chance of not being bumped.

    This is where I respectfully disagree. I believe that the existence and promotion of the SWA 10 minute rule gives the pax a false sense of security (of thinking he won’t get bumped).

    Ten-Minute Rule. Failure of a Passenger to obtain a Boarding Pass and be present, available, and appropriate as described in Section 6 for boarding in the flight’s boarding gate area at least ten minutes before the scheduled departure time may result in cancellation of the Passenger‟s reservation without notice at the Carrier’s sole discretion.

    In reality the aircraft is already being boarded (and the boarding groups well determined and populated) ahead of this time. Please note that if one checks in online as early as 24 hours before the flight, he can print the boarding pass with the BOARDING GROUP already assigned. In fact, if you pay $10 for  Early-Bird Check in, SWA will AUTOMATICALLY check you in 36 hours ahead of departure so you will get assigned a boarding position ahead of those who did not pay this fee. If you are an A-list customer of SWA, you will be in Priority GROUP A boarding and will get Fly-By Service (no or less waiting in line).

    The real issue and problem is OVERBOOKING. By the airline’s selling more tickets (confirmed space) that there are actual seats on the aircraft, the airline is gambling (speculating) that there will be enough PAID passengers who will NOT show up and therefore all the passengers who do actually show up will have seats.

    It is the airline that speculated, not the passenger. So how can that get twisted to blame the passenger for not being there early enough as to guarantee him a seat? The fact is if the flight is oversold, I don’t care how early everyone shows up, some of them will get bumped. It is a simple math problem.

  • TonyA_says

    Michael, I started a new post for you. There’s not enough space on this thread.

  • AAmerican1

    Everyday is a new learning experience. In Texas our AG, under the consumer protection division, will investigate a citizens complaint with or without a statute on the books. Part of the Don’t Mess with Texas campaign. However, Texas did add a rebate / refund statute in 2007 which can be found in Section 605 in the Texas Business and Commerce Code.

    In addition one might consider there could be a violation of both SOX and The Uniform Unclaimed Property Act (Escheatment) in that there was an outstanding uncashed check that should have been reported.

  • AAmerican1

    Everyday is a new learning experience. In Texas our AG, under the consumer protection division, will investigate a citizens complaint with or without a statute on the books. Part of the Don’t Mess with Texas campaign. However, Texas did add a rebate / refund statute in 2007 which can be found in Section 605 in the Texas Business and Commerce Code.

    In addition one might consider there could be a violation of both SOX and The Uniform Unclaimed Property Act (Escheatment) in that there was an outstanding uncashed check that should have been reported.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000411983318 Jen Goodman

    Actually, legally, the bank is bound by the written amount not the amount in numbers. The written amount is the legal amount of the check. I wonder what bank was used because here at Wells Fargo, we would have accepted the check.

  • TonyA_says

     Hey good point. In the bank we used to process a lot of checks, I saw (and was told by) the outsourced ENCODING company that they only READ the numbers and keyed it in to print an extended MICR line and create a digital record for deposit. This thing happens so fast because the checks were on a mechanized belt.
    Nevertheless, since the difference of the written amount and the amount in numbers was small, the OP should have gotten his money much earlier than 1 year.

  • jmastron

    I respect the thought that the credit card company might not allow a full chargeback in the end (though they may still be a helpful tool in pushing the airline to do the right thing), but I really believe you have the right to a refund (cash or the original form of payment), not just a travel credit, if you choose not to take the rebooked flight (in addition to the 2x or 4x etc compensation).  The DOT’s website at http://airconsumer.dot.gov/publications/flyrights.htm#overbooking says:

    “You always get to keep your original ticket and use it on
    another flight. If you choose to make your own arrangements, you can request an
    “involuntary refund” for the ticket for the flight you were bumped
    from. The denied boarding compensation is essentially a payment for your
    inconvenience.”

    And Southwest’s CoC calls for a refund of an otherwise-nonrefundable ticket in an involuntary reschedule, as do virtually all airlines; same as any other schedule change that entitles you to get a refund.  And even if the CoC didn’t, basic consumer law would allow such a refund, and THAT part will almost certainly be upheld by a reputable credit card company.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    Tony

    You can say this until you are blue in the face.  Some folks just don’t get that as long as airlines overbook, someone may be bumped, regardless of how early they get there.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    AAmerican1

    I skimmed the statute.  It seemed drawn specifically towards rebates, which of course is not the issue before us.  Obviously I can’t speak to all states,  but I am very skeptical that  this is something that an Attorney General or District Attorney would get involved in.  With regards to checks, law enforcement is generally focused on fraud. Otherwise they view it as a civil matter.

  • Michael__K

    Tony, Thanks for fleshing out what I was getting at in such thorough detail.

    I suppose skeptics can still try to argue either that SWA sometimes ignores its refund policy and issues checks when it should be crediting plastic, or that the OP received a check because he paid in cash (how many people really spend ~$2,000+ on airplane tickets and pay in cash though?)

    I find it incredible that someone would assert that either of these possibilities is the “most likely” one here.

  • TonyA_says

    Even if you actually buy a SWA ticket with CASH, the refund policy is (per SWA COC 4.C.2):

    Carrier shall make eligible refunds in the same form as the original payment. Refunds for Tickets purchased with a credit card shall be processed for crediting to the same credit card account no later than seven business days from the date the refund request is received by Carrier. Refunds for Tickets purchased with cash will be issued by check no later than 20 business days after the refund request is received by Carrier.

    It clearly states that you won’t get CASH back as a refund even if you bought your ticket with CASH. You will get a check.

  • Michael__K

    Right, that’s exactly what I meant.  A skeptic could argue that the bad check the OP’s received was in fact a refund for their cash ticket purchase. 

    I’m curious how many passengers pay in cash for ~$2,000+ in plane tickets?  More than 0.01%?

  • TonyA_says

    I am a skeptic, a devout one :-)
    Since the OP was not disputing the amount of the payment then the reason for the payment is irrelevant. What is in dispute is the AVAILABILITY of the funds – whether the check was negotiable or not.

    The debate whether the OP was late or was bumped is only an interesting side story. Either way SWA will pay you something.
    Even if the OP was late and was responsible for being bumped, he  was handed a check and that check better be good. That check is indisputable.

  • Michael__K

    Amen