“Unintentional things can and do happen during flights”

“Unintentional things can and do happen during flights”
By | October 29th, 2013

Before I tell you about Justin Cohen’s case, there are one or two things he wants everyone to know. He likes kids. He’s a former teacher and has a “high tolerance” for unruly youngsters.

Except maybe on an overseas flight where he’s seated next to a kid that doesn’t stop whimpering, whining and screaming for the entire trip.

That’s exactly what happened to Cohen last week. He says he was seated next to an enfant terrible on a US Airways flight from London to Philadelphia, and he wants to know if he can be compensated for the torture. His final destination was Dayton, Ohio, and his connecting flight was uneventful, he says.

Let’s get right to his story. The screaming started before takeoff, when the flight experienced a one-hour ground delay. It got worse once the flight was airborne. Apparently, the parents didn’t know how — or didn’t care to find a way — to silence their offspring.

Cue the first video, above.

“I did mention my discomfort to the crew, but the flight was pretty full,” says Cohen. “The crew just said they’re used to this happening and have learned to tune it out.”

Flight attendants tried to silence the irritable child by bringing extra snacks and drinks.

“Nothing worked,” he says.

On the flight, the roar of the jet engines mixed with the cacophony of the child’s screams.

“Honestly, I wish I’d thought of asking for another seat,” adds Cohen. “The flight was booked pretty solid. I did my best to blare .mp3s on my laptop to no avail. I left the flight with a pounding headache. The child was louder than the music.”

It gets worse.

Let’s watch another video. The screams really get loud at the 20-second mark.

Cohen contacted me the day after his flight and sent me these videos. He wanted to know what he should do.

I suggested sending a brief, polite email to US Airways asking it to address the noise levels on his flight.

Here’s its response:

It is relatively easy to provide good customer service when an operation is running smoothly. We know the test of quality service occurs when we are faced with flight irregularities and problems such as you experienced. We are truly sorry for the delay of Flight 729 and the inconvenience it caused.

Your frustration with our failure to operate this flight as scheduled is understandable. It is not our intent to create difficulties for our customers and we make every effort to avoid flight interruptions. However, I am glad to see that you were able to make your connection flight to Dayton with no delays.

Additionally, I’m sorry to hear you were frustrated and unhappy with another passenger on your flight from London to Philadelphia.

I can understand your frustration with the situation. However, we cannot take responsibility for the actions of another passenger. Unintentional things can and do happen during flights, and it’s unfortunate that you and another passenger were involved in this situation. I’m sorry I am unable to honor your request for compensation for this situation.

Based on what you’ve said, it appears our flight attendant didn’t handle the situation with the quality customer care you expect. I apologize and understand your frustration. I’ve shared your feedback with our Inflight leadership team to help improve our service.

How nice of US Airways to acknowledge Cohen’s flight from hell. How not nice of it to do nothing more than “share” his feedback.

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The question is, can I do any better?

Well, at the moment, US Airways and I have something of a love-hate relationship. I like the people I work with over there, and I think they tolerate me, but they’re livid that I refuse to support their wrongheaded, anti-consumer merger with American Airlines.

Let’s just say they probably aren’t going to do me any favors.


But I wonder what Cohen’s bank would think of these videos, if he chose to dispute his credit card purchase? It might agree with him that the product he paid for wasn’t the one he received, although it should be noted that the only seats advertised as “quiet” are the ones in first class.

Some of you will express sympathy for the parents and the baby, which was undoubtedly irritated because of the changes in air pressure and environment. I feel for them, too.

But eight hours? You don’t have to be Parent of the Year to keep your kid quiet for at least part of that time.

Update (8 p.m. EDT): US Airways has responded to this post. I won’t bury the lede, as they say in journalism: They won’t change their answer. But an airline spokesman also offers a few useful insights. Here’s his email, which I’ve republished with his permission.

As a former flight attendant who has dealt with hundreds of screaming babies on flights, I have found there are three basic reasons kids scream on planes:

1. They don’t like to be restrained in seat belts because they are not used to riding in a seat without a safety seat, or being held in a parent’s lap (over 2 years old). This is an issue of not preparing the child appropriately for the airplane environment or not purchasing a seat to use the car seat in. This isn’t your family mini-van on a trip to the store, folks. It’s a closed airplane with hundreds of people around, for eight hours, when folks are trying to sleep.

2. The child has a nasal or ear infection, and the pressure changes are creating excruciating pain in their head because their ears won’t equalize. Most often, it is a long-planned family vacation and the ‘runny nose isn’t that bad, so we’ll be fine.’ Needless to say, another issue of not making the tough call for the child’s safety and maybe not realizing the horrendous pain the child is suffering because of the ear block. It can result in serious ear/hearing damage. That may have been the case here as families returning home with kids who get sick on vacation get ‘destination fixation’ and just want to get back home ASAP – to the dismay of their seatmates.

3. A combination of 2, then 1. The child hurts, then goes into full-tilt meltdown mode when trying to be calmed down, which results in ever-escalating parental attempts at restraint.

So, as anyone who as ever endured a screaming child for this many hours can attest, it is no fun. But compensation? And you have all seen what happens when airlines ask parents with screaming children to deplane – we are seen as ‘anti-family’ and crucified in the media. We are all in a no-win situation with screaming kids. We need the parents to save us from this mess. And when you see well-behaved kids on planes – isn’t it a delight?

My fix for this as a crew member many years ago (assuming it isn’t ear block, but rather a restraint issue) was to ask the parent if I could hold the child … I would then walk to the back of the plane and the child would see they were being separated from their parents and cry even louder because of the separation. I would hesitate, then take the child slowly back to the parent, making sure they could not see them until reunited. Almost always, they quieted immediately because they now had the security of their parent. The separation was far worse than the restraint, and they gladly submitted to the seatbelt when next to mom and dad. When the child acted up, I simply asked the parent if they wanted me to take the child for a short walk, and the child almost always quieted down immediately.

The only fix for the ear block was anti-histamines and a few minutes time … they would open the sinuses, and induce drowsiness which almost always resulted in their repeated yawning (opening the Eustachian tubes) then nodding off. I would never give anything to a passenger’s child, but as a parent, I often made sure my infant son was ‘clean and green’ with anti-histamines 45 minutes before boarding. He was an angel (a sleeping one at that) … and we also traveled often so he got used to being in a seat with his own belt.

Sorry, Chris. A lot of empathy here, and a few ideas of what worked for me, but parents with screaming kids should discuss the reasons for the behavioral outbursts with their family doctor. These are not normal. There can be real medical reasons for acting out.

(Note: I’ve also edited this post to reflect that this was not an overnight flight.)

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  • As much as I feel sorry for anyone who would have had to listen to that for 8 hours, sometimes $%&# happens. Maybe I should go to the hospital where my son was born and ask for a full refund cause the lady down the hall wouldn’t stop screaming while giving birth. Couldn’t those nurses have done a better job of shutting her up? Next time, bring noise canceling earbuds. Some things are just not under our control

  • Cybrsk8r

    Noise cancelling headphones are a fallacy. They should be called “noise reducing headphones”. They will not totally cancel out sound in your environment.

  • Cheap ones might not. I have a pair of Shure’s and had my wife scream as loud as she could and I could not hear a thing. Honest. So I’ll give you that the majority problem don’t work well and the majority of people probably aren’t willing to pay $70 for a pair that do. But they do exist. Especially if you can find a pair that are foam and will expand to form a complete seal. Not sure how that would do with cabin pressure though

  • Cybrsk8r

    Every time I see a story like this, it reminds me of a flight I was on. There was this kid across the isle and one row forward. He sreamed bloody murder as the plane took off. At first, I felt sorry for him because I thought he was scared.

    But as the flight wore on, I began to realize that he just didn’t want to have his seatbelt on. He was happy as a clam as long as he could stand on the seat. But then we hit some rough air and they put this kid in the seat and fastened his seatbelt, you’d have thought someone was pulling this kid’s fingernails off with a pliers. That’s the way he was screaming.

    So, eventually, his mom un-does his seatbelt, and the kid is once again happily standing on the seat. Do I really have to tell you what comes next? I will anyway. We hit a pretty big bump, and this little snot-nose wound up in the isle about three rows from where he started. At this point, I wasn’t feeling much sympathy for this kid.

    I made sure to tell the FA what happened and gave her my name and phone number, so, when the parents sued, I could tell the court it was the parents who un-buckled their kid.

  • sirwired

    I agree he probably had a horrible time, but what was US Airways to do? Turn the flight around? I don’t think there’s anything to mediate here. Notice they didn’t even offer him a voucher.

    To parents: Never, ever, take a young child on a plane without, at the least, Children’s Benadryl on hand. A couple of doses of prescription cough syrup would be even better.

  • John Baker

    I think the OP has a legitimate issue but he’s approaching the wrong party. The issue is with the parents that failed to parent and control their child (for the record I have 3 all of which have flown repeatedly without drugs and without the issues shown).

    I’m not sure what the OP expected US Air to do. There’s no throwing them out at 40,000 ft. They aren’t diverting the plane and landing for a screaming infant.

    US Air maybe the worst when it comes to customer service but I happen to agree with them this time. The OP’s issue should be with the parents not US Air.

  • commentfromme

    I feel very strongly that it is long overdue for airlines to create a “family and child” section, and an “adults only” seating section. I think Justin Cohen’s best revenge would be to start a You Tube campaign and attempt to get the video to go viral, while promoting the US Air image within the video as revenge. Maybe then airlines will take note of the experience they provide. The screamer and his family could have been moved to the back row cornerseating, and every seat around them cleared out and shifted.

  • Ribit

    FTA: However, we cannot take responsibility for the actions of another passenger.

    This is great news of US Air passengers.
    If there is an open seat in first/business class, go sit in it.
    If the food served in first/business class is better, go grab a tray.
    But I doubt that US Air would not let these things happen without admonishing the passenger.
    At a minimum, the parents should have been notified that they were in danger of never flying again on US Air.

  • Mrs Compton

    On flights like this (and we’ve all endured them) I put earplugs in before I put my noise canceling headphones on. Not perfect but it takes the screech factor down quite a few decibles.

  • Justin

    John,

    I’m the OP and it might not be popular for me to comment on my own story. However, let me respond to a few of your comments, as I feel a burning obligation.

    1) U.S. airways can mitigate these scenarios by refusing boarding if a child is unruly / sick or ask parents to disembark if the behavior continues before takeoff. I know these two suggestions aren’t going to win me the popularity award, but passengers need not suffer for parent’s lack of prior preparation.

    2) The child was kicking chairs (in videos above), throwing a fits, and the staff never intervened beyond a SINGLE attempt to bring some extra snacks. In another video taken, a crew member walks by with a look of horror on her face, but never speaking to the family. Issues involving children are of sensitive nature, but the crew does have an obligation to speak up after complaints are lobbied.

    Ultimately, Airlines lack of foresight to have “Family Sections” creates these situations. Alternatively, secondary options include:

    – Moving families with unruly children to back of plane for the added comfort of most passengers. – I was in Row 19 and I PROMISE first class was within earshot.

    – Keeping a few crayons or paper on hand to “distract children”.

    – Asking parents to get up, take child to restroom (silent area), and attempt to gain control of the situation.

    My two cents here. While I understand the family possesses a lot of blame, U.S. Airways blind eye doesn’t win awards either.

  • John Baker

    Justin … I’ve heard a number of people suggest “family sections” but I’ve never heard someone actually lay out how they would work. As you pointed out, “screaming kid” fills the entire airplane with noise. Its kind of like the old days with a smoking section … What a joke! Smoke doesn’t know its supposed to stop at row 12 and what about the guy in row 11. He might as well be in the smoking section.

    My advice. Go to the local courthouse and file a small action claim against US Air and “John Doe” if your state allows. I’m sure US Air will gladly cough up the name of the passenger to be released from the suit. Go get your money from the parents.

  • MarkKelling

    “On the overnight flight” US doesn’t offer overnight flights coming from London, even with the hour delay it was not overnight.

    “I did my best to blare .mp3s on my laptop” I hope he meant through his headphones.

    Things happen on flights, as US noted in its response. These days, the flight attendants aren’t going to do much about it unfortunately unless you are in 1st with the other passengers they want to keep happy.

  • Airline were certainly quick enough to admonish me when my small dog got barky before flight. It’s curious they weren’t as efficient with this child’s parents.

  • Cam

    I voted no as it seems he didn’t ask to move seats whilst on the flight.

  • Jim Zakany

    I don’t agree with the “family and child” section – a logistical nightmare – but shaming via video is probably the most effective action.

  • MarkKelling

    Unless there is a wall with a door the noise will not be confined to that section. And when was the last time you were on a plane with enough empty seats allowing for the reshuffling of passengers? For me that was in 1999.

  • Ariel J Potischman

    I have a pair of $300 Bose noise-cancelling headphones, and while they block out the majority of sound, they wouldn’t work in this scenario. Sorry Brad, but even the best products can’t block out all of what a screaming child can produce.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Ok, I got a real problem with the OP filming this family and then posting it on the internet. Does he have their consent to show their child? If I caught some guy filming my kid, I would assume he’s a pervert and I would probably end up in jail for my reaction.

    That said, I have been seated next to a kid who was like 8 or 9 who SHRIEKED for the entire flight while Mommy played on her iPad. When an FA asked her to quiet the child, she replied, “He’s autistic.”

    The captain got involved after the kid chucked a cup of orange juice at a FA. Miraculously, when Mom unplugged from the movie and started paying attention to him, he started behaving.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Even in FC they won’t really intervene until it becomes a safety issue. Trust me on this one. That story I wrote below occurred in FC.

  • Jim Zakany

    I don’t think we, the flying public, want to encourage arbitrary, judgement-call denied boarding events.

    The child’s parents had her flanked and were trying to calm her. They were very stressed – the last thing they needed was a flight attendant telling them the obvious. I don’t think a coloring book was going to be the elixir in this case.

    Family sections are a terrible idea for the airlines – they aren’t going to happen. And I want the lavatories open for people who need to use them.

    Others have had worse flights. Just be thankful that bodily fluids weren’t involved.

  • Andrew F

    Family sections — are you kidding? A single unruly kid wakes up 5 newborns. Now what? Crayons don’t usually help with kids THAT distressed. Restrooms… do you want the family to spend the entire flight there? If they couldn’t control their kid at the seat, what makes you think she’d quiet down in the loo?

    I can surely understand — it sucks to be in the situation you were in. But that’s the nature of mass transit: you get from point A to point B; anything beyond that (arrive on time, peace and quiet) is an optional extra you may or may not get.

  • Extramail

    I admit I didn’t even click on his videos because who wants to willingly watch such a display if you don’t have to!

    I took my kids on long flights numerous times when they were little. I even flew to Hawaii once with one of my kids when she was 6 and we flew in first class. I got the requisite dirty looks as we stopped in first class but I was complimented on how well behaved she was when we got off because I knew how to handle my child and I did. The secret did not involve drugs; I expected my children to behave, I brought entertainment or I flew at night when I knew they would sleep. Stuff happens and I admit I cringe every time I see a kid get on my flight but the least the airline could have done is offer him miles if he’s a frequent flyer.

  • Chris Johnson

    Thank you! Every time I mention something like this, people look at me in horror and say, “how could you drug your kid???” It’s Benadryl, people, not Ecstasy.

    As a side note, as much as his experience sucked, I have no idea how this is any bit USAirway’s fault and what mediation would do. Maybe if he was supposed to be in first class and got bumped down to coach through no fault of his own, he might have a case.

  • I’m sure the OP isn’t the only person who was impacted by the child’s actions. The sound of a child screaming like that cuts through me like a sharp scalpel, sorry to say, but I’m sure I’m not the only one. Does everyone get compensated? Would you base it on proximity to the child? Sometimes this happens, as it has happened to me, though maybe not to this degree. Still, my ire was directed more appropriately to the parents, not the airline or staff. Never considered asking for something from one (the airline) for the actions of another (passenger).

  • SoBeSparky

    London to Philadelphia is not an overnight flight. No change to my vote, of course, to mediate. An airline has “secret” ways to deal with such passengers for the future, one of which is to put this incident into the passengers’ records to discourage future bookings.

  • Justin

    Hello John,
    Thanks for replying. I’m keenly aware of the smoke not stopping at “row 11” theory. However, seating families in the rear does create a barrier. Noise travels, but from back to front, the distance is greater.

    Also, putting up a curtain to separate children from the “distractions” that may set off temper tantrums is a suggestion. There might be coloring books, simple activities, and so forth available geared towards children.

    Flight attendants could also have juice, cookies, and other snacks on hand to soothe children in these areas.

    No solution is guaranteed but airlines can make a concerted effort.

  • ChBot

    Chris,
    Based on the response you’ve published, it seems that instead of a short and polite email asking for a precise compensation, the OP sent a laundry list of complaint, hence diluting his main point (the unruly kid and the lack of action towards the parents by the flight crew).
    Am I wrong ?

  • I find airline staff worried about doing anything beyond required safety measures. I had this when a man refused to let me put my seat back for 8 hours en route JFK Madrid. Staff did nothing but a gentle ask. They then asked if the captain should get involved, I still regret not saying yes. My children were born overseas and I say this with understanding: truly the staff could have asked the mother to walk the child around for a bit, or give her a lolly pop!!! The man also could have demanded someone get involved, or moved his seat. I probably would have pinched the kid, shhhh

  • Jeanne_in_NE

    Justin – just a question, please: The story says that you were seated next to the child. The videos show a young woman (?) to your right and the family across the aisle from you. At least I think that’s what the video shows. Is that correct?

  • Justin

    Jim,

    Having a background working with youngsters, kids sometimes need to be moved to a quiet area for a few moments. I’m not advocating using the bathroom as a staging area for the entire flight. I am implying that providing a temporary space for children to regain composure and calm down works. Even if a couple of minutes.

    Second, parents may be frazzled on occasions but certain actions exacerbate situations:

    Examples:

    Avoid taking a young child to a loud or scary movie and then acting surprised the child is distressed. – It happens often.

    Flying with a sick or unruly youngster. I know we all have obligations, but sometimes adjustments are necessary. Delaying a flight until the child is well, bringing medication if necessary, or ensuring adequate sleep are a few precautionary measures.

  • William_Leeper

    As a photographer and videographer, I will share a bit of law with you. An airplane is considered a public place just as is a train, or a bus. It is perfectly legal to video/photograph in a public place without consent or compensation. There are a few regulations as to what a person can do with that video, but all of those involve commercial use, and this is clearly taken from a mobile device, and is not commercial quality.

    As for the rest of your comment, believe it or not, defense of a third person is a defense to most all assault charges, and in many jurisdictions, that includes defense from a perceived threat.

  • Jim Zakany

    I have a son who is handicapped (mental and physical). Sometimes I catch flak for quickly correcting him because he’s “special” (I can pick up subtle cues that he’s going off long before they become noticeable by others.) I try to impress upon him that he has to act like everyone else, even if it’s hard for him to do so.

    Yes, some autistic children shriek uncontrollably. Aren’t you glad you’re not him? Be thankful you’re not the parent of such a child.

    But like you explained, that child reacted well to correction, so there’s little excuse for not trying that sooner.

    In the videos above, the parents had their daughter flanked and were actively addressing her.

  • John Baker

    @jimzakany:disqus Thank you for continuing to parent your child even though he’s not the same as everyone else and doing your best to make him a member of society (before anyone wants to jump me… I have a child on an IEP and another child on a 504 plus my wife is an intervention specialist).

  • Justin

    I’m the OP and my letter to U.S. Airways was a very concise and short 336 words.

    Two interconnected issues were addressed:

    1) The behavior of the child and lack of action by the staff.
    2) The delay which may or may not have exacerbated the sequence of events above. The delay also factored into almost missing my connecting flight. A 2.5 Hour delay between ground and air gave me 9 minutes to reach the next flight. Luckily, it hadn’t left for one reason or another.

    If you so request, I’ll gladly post the letter here.

    Regards.

  • Jim Zakany

    The videos are short and, frankly, not that bad. I, too, didn’t watch them initially for much the same reason – but I couldn’t comment until I had.

    I’ve had flights where my children were complimented and some where they weren’t. I’ve flown with very well-behaved children and terrible adults.

    Do you really think the airlines ought to give out prizes for others on your flight being jackasses? Almost everyone would get something!

    (Maybe this isn’t as silly as I thought.)

  • Raquel Hickman Thiebes

    This is an industry wide issue not a US Airways problem, so I don’t know how you could mediate it? There are really only a few things to point out….one, do parents know how to soothe their children when they are overtired, scared or have ear pressure/pain (there are things you can do)? Second you either have to remove the problem and not allow little ones on flights or have a separate section for parents and their little ones. I see no other alternative. Luckily, as a parent, I can condition myself to either offer help or shut out the “noise”.

  • John Baker

    Yea … I rode the whole way home from the UK in FC (award ticket) with a special needs adult manhandling my seat & make “noises”.

    PS… The parents opted for the back row so it would bug a minimum number of people… and no I didn’t complain when I landed either

  • Justin

    The seating setup was as follows:

    8 total seats in a row. My seat and the woman were separated by an aisle way. The middle contained four seats where the family was placed. On the opposing side were two more seats.

    The child occupied the seat closest to the woman and I for a duration of the flight. Moving spots every now and again. So we were closest in proximity being the same row and “next” to the child.

    Mind you, people in front of the child were SAINTS! On a trip to the lavatory, the woman subject to being kicked made a comment how she was SICK of her chair being SLAMMED / Kicked / Pushed by the upset youngster.

    My video doesn’t capture everything, but the root of displeasure is evident.

  • bpepy

    Putting your seat all the way back is VERY inconsiderate and uncomfortable for the person behind you. My 6′ 3″, long legged husband flew from Paris to Washington Dulles several years ago with a man’s head almost in his lap. He could hardly walk off the plane he was so cramped! He’s too polite, I think. I would have refused to let the man completely recline. I think its just common courtesy to not recline so far that you are seriously impacting your neighbor to the rear.

  • Sorry to disagree, your contract with the airline gives you the legal right to put your seat back and to use the space for storage under the seat in front of you. Very tall people might want to consider one of those new preferred seats which on this flight were $110 one way

    Thank you,

  • Jeanne_in_NE

    Okay, it was 2 – 4 – 2, and you were in the window seat across the aisle from the family?

  • Jim Zakany

    We all do what we can, because we have to.

  • Jeanne_in_NE

    @Christopher Elliott: I voted NO, do not mediate. Why?

    1) Mr. Cohen was not seated directly next to the little girl. I’d say that the people directly in front of the little girl have more of an argument than does Mr. Cohen for compensation, since it was their seats being kicked and jostled, all while having their eardrums assaulted.

    2) It is not the airline’s job to pacify children who cannot be pacified nor to provide entertainment for children. That is the job of the parents. Since Mr. Cohen is a former teacher, surely he has encountered children who simply cannot learn because of issues related to their upbringing. The videos he posted show parents who were engaged with their child, not ignoring her. They were ineffectual, true, but it’s not the airline’s job to teach parents how to parent. As a teacher, he should know just how hard it is to teach parents and how very unwelcome any advice would be in that regard.

    I agree, it was the flight from Hell. I both sympathize and empathize with Mr. Cohen. I’m sure that I would have attempted to teach some parenting skills out of sheer desperation (and failed miserably). But sometimes, life just sucks. Especially when you fly an airline that really doesn’t give a flying ________.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Agreed. I think the creep who videoed this little girl is a whiner and needs to put his big boy undies on and grow up.

    I noticed in the video that the parents switched seats. They were trying, unlike iPad mom in my story.

    And really, he’s lucky it wasn’t my kid he was filming.

  • Jim Zakany

    There is absolutely no verbiage in your carriage contract that refers to putting your seat back. Nor are there any state or federal laws guaranteeing you such a right or privilege.

  • You’re right, Jim. I think you’ve stumbled upon the latest unbundling idea. Why not sell the right to recline your seat? For a $20 fee, your airline could unlock your seat, giving you the ability to recline? US Airways, are you listening? You could make millions!

  • Raven_Altosk

    Would you want some perv filming your little girl?
    And then putting it on youtube?

  • Jim Zakany

    With ever-decreasing seat pitch, the airlines will have to eliminate that two-inch recline for safety reasons.

    As it stands, there are serious safety problems with the current seat and aisle dimensions. If a modern aircraft were a building, it would be condemned for being a fire trap – yet escaping a fast-burning fire is the most relevant escape scenario in an aircraft.

    I, honestly, do not understand how or why the FAA tolerates the breaching of OSHA and NFPA code, except as a calculus to trade lives for dollars.

    (Makes me wonder how much someone else is making for my life.)

  • Raven_Altosk

    How do you know the kid did not suffer from mental health issues and/or autism?

    If that was the case, are you saying special needs children should be banned from flying?

  • Raven_Altosk

    I still think you’re a creep for filming this and putting it on youtube. How do we know you’re not just some sicko who likes to video little girls?

  • William_Leeper

    Raven…u missed the point…I didn’t say it was right, nor ethical. I said it was LEGAL! Once he videos it, he owns copyright to it, and can do as he wishes.

  • Chris Johnson

    No I wouldn’t, but in a public place, all you can do is shield your child from the camera, or as you suggested, do something that would cause you to end up in jail if you actually knew the guy was filming your child.

  • I’m not sure it’s necessary to call Justin a creep.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Would you want a stranger filming your kids and putting it on youtube?

  • Justin

    Raven,

    I find your comments quite slanderous and without merit.

    Please convey how publicly admonishing lack of parental oversight and crew intervention border on creepy.

    If I were using the video for nefarious purposes, I certainly wouldn’t be contacting an ombudsman for mediation, let alone PUBLISHING my name!

  • Justin

    Yes. 2 – 4 -2 with the children at the end of the seat nearest to our 2 seats. Thus the woman and I were adjacent to the child, separated by the walkway.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Sit down, Yale boy. Yes, I’ve researched you. You’ve been out of a classroom and into consulting so telling the ombudsman that you’re used to “unruly” kids is a lie. You may have taught high school biology, but clearly this little girl is beyond unruly. It looks like she has some issues.

    Slanderous? You’re filming a kid, who may or may not have issues you are unaware of, and then putting it on the internet for all the pervs to see.

    I have a problem with that.
    And therefore, I have a problem with you.

    “Admonishing bad parenting?” well…it looks to me like the parents tried to “contain” the child.

    In your other comments you suggested that parents not fly with kids. How do you know that these people were not returning from active duty or a funeral or other family event? Who are you to judge?

    Please, take your sanctimonious nonsense and exit stage left.
    And take down the videos.

  • Justin

    If I possessed the technical understanding to blur out the child’s face, you bet I would have taken corrective action.

    None the less, I do not, and the fact remains the video isn’t being used for nefarious purposes. Demonstrated by the fact I contacted an ombudsman, and my name is utilized in the story.

  • Georg Köster

    you are right. Noise canceling for $300 would have totally failed in this case. But Shure head phones are in-ears that are noise isolating. Just like foam earplugs only with music. I have tried both in a number of situations and the Shure’s came out on top with blocking out any kind of noise everytime.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Be warned: Benadryl can have a backwards effect. When I take it, it makes me hyper, not sleepy. Pediatrician recommended we give Baby Girl a dose or two at home before using it in flight.

    She’s fine on it, but for me, it’s a no-go.

  • Raven_Altosk

    And now the back pedaling begins…

    Take the video down.
    Problem solved if you’re either too ignorant or apathetic to learn how to use basic video editing software that you can even download for free online…

  • Annie M

    I voted no and for a simple reason – he should have asked to have his seat moved, plain and simple. I also don’t know why he didn’t think of it especially since he said the flight was “almost” full. Almost means there were empty seats and he could have been moved very easily and it would have made more of an impact on the parents of the child than sitting and suffering through it.

    People need to take some responsibility for finding a solution to a problem. I tell all our clients if there is a problem when they are at a hotel, don’t stew about it until they get home – get a manager and try to get it fixed. If the manager can’t fix it, call me so I can try and fix it while there. Don’t suffer and come home and complain about it – it’s too late at that point. A seat change would have resolved the problem. How could you not think of it?

    The video makes it appear at least the mother is trying to do something for the child. I am willing to bet that the child’s ears were hurting her. I learned with my kids to bring a nose spray because their ears can get clogged and it hurts. So if that is the case, what can the stewards do?

    Mr. Cohen should have asked to have his seat moved – that would have been a very simple solution. If they compensate him, they would have to compensate everyone with close seats to this child.

  • DavidYoung2

    Just FYI, Benadryl does nothing for our kid. Might help with some kids, might make some more hyper, with ours it did nothing (yes, we tried — bad parents, right?)

    Suggestion to parents: Kids get scared and bored. Bring NEW toys, books and games. Something to keep them entertained for the whole flight and will keep their interest because they haven’t seen them before. We used to bring foam sticker thingys that she used to decorated the plane (yes we pulled them off when we left). Gluesticks help make fun handpuppets out of air sickness bags, and they’ll give you as many as you want. Coffee stirrers make fun pick-up sticks too!

    Suggestion to flyers: Invest in GOOD noise canceling headphones. No it won’t eliminate screaming. Yes it will diminish it by 80% or more.

    Suggestion to F/As: Drink coupons.

  • Annie M

    It is a red eye flight, not and overnight flight.

  • Justin

    I think you’ve researched the wrong person. I neither attended Yale nor taught High School Biology.

    I am growing quite weary of your slanderous remarks regarding my motives and background..

    While everyone else can compose themselves professionally, your apparent lack restraint speaks volumes.

    I am going to refrain from commenting on your posts further until you learn to “Act like an Adult”.

  • bodega3

    A redeye flight refers to an overnight flight.

  • Justin

    Annie,

    Unfortunately, the flight was rather full. I did verse my displeasure, but was met with nonchalance fro the crew.

    Seeing the flight landed 2.5 hours later than expected due to various delays, I arrived at my connecting flight with 9 minutes to spare. Luckily, it too was delayed!

    I really didn’t have the time to argue my plight with the airline upon disembarking.

  • Annie M

    Justin, the obvious solution was to ask to have your seat moved. How you didn’t think of that is beyond me.

  • DavidYoung2

    When you’re in public, you’re in public. People can film you, record you, photograph you. Act accordingly.

    And I think this person was just documenting a terrible flight. Happens all the time with no ill intent. In fact, the GoPro, designed to document your every observation on film, is one of the hottest items on the market. Also, they have this thing called YouTube with billions of hours of random video that people shoot for, well, just no reason (although the cat videos are funny.)

  • Not sure complaining about ALMOST missing a flight is a good idea. I ALMOST won the lottery the other day, but I didn’t. You either made the flight, or you didn’t. Perhaps the reason your first flight was delayed was also a factor in why your next flight was also late. I’ve almost missed many flight, but count myself has happy when I make them after all…

  • Justin

    Raven,

    Let me make two things CLEAR.

    1) Mr. Elliott asked I post these videos to YouTube as a medium for hosting.

    2) I have now grown weary of your lack of discourse, inability to act like an adult, and downright slander.

    I believe it’s time Mr. Elliott or a moderator assist with a lesson in etiquette. Until you LEARN to act like an adult, you need not participate in Adult discussions.

  • Justin

    Mr. Elliott,

    Might I request moderation of Raven’s comments. I believe her comments exceed the level of proper discourse.

  • Owassonian

    As a father of a 3 year old boy and a 6 months old girl, I would absolutely hate to see my kids in a video on youtube without my consent. But then one can’t blame others if one is putting the kids in the public eye, especially when they throw a tantrum, whatever may the cause be. We have to see the intent of the video. The little girl is seen only for a few seconds, though heard for almost all the time, to convey the point. The video didn’t appear to be taken for amusement or entertainment. I think the video was taken with sufficient care to not be creepy. My concern was for the co-sufferer in the aisle seat, who tried her best to tune out the disturbances.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Dude, don’t give them any ideas….

  • Raven_Altosk

    Yawn.
    Was I just scolded? Can you say it in your not-teacher voice, please?

  • Raven_Altosk

    You didn’t answer my question about the child having special needs and whether you feel that special needs children should be banned from flying.

    Hmm.
    Well then.

  • Justin

    I concede that raising the issue of a connection was secondary to the main concern. However, the factors were intertwined.

    Late departure + Late arrival equated to a fussy child and a nearly missed connection. I’m sure an extra 2.5 hours spent by the child grounded and in the air didn’t bode well. Those issues were a result U.S. airways.

  • Raven_Altosk

    I’m a guy, pal.
    And aside from saying you’re a creep for videoing a little girl who may or may not have issues, I haven’t broken any rules.

    So, sit down or leave the sandbox.

  • Stereoknob

    Solution: Child Free Zones. The idea of segregating your crotch fruit from my business/vacation trip and personal sanity is FANTASTIC. Also, then the kids can play with each other and keep each other happy. Perfect solution right?

  • Please remember our comments policy, which prohibits personal attacks. I don’t want to close the discussion on this important topic, but I will if I have to.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Well, my Google-Fu may be off today. No matter. I shall dig deeper.

  • Raven_Altosk

    All right, all right. I’ll stop calling the OP a creep, but I will not back off my statement of saying it’s skeevy to film someone else’s kid, especially in a situation where you don’t know the whole story.

  • PHXUSA

    I don’t understand something here, “The screaming started before takeoff, when the flight experienced a one-hour ground delay”.” It got worse once the flight was airborne”
    I voted Yes, not only for Justin but for everyone else who was within screaming distance.
    If this child was screaming during the delay Why did the FA’s and the Capt. allow the child and her parents to stay on board?
    I realize that this is US Airways we are talking about but still a child screaming on the ground and it gets worse during the flight?
    That should never have happened, a child like that is a screaming safety risk.I mean how can you hear the FA’s do their pre flight safety spiel when you have a child with iron lungs howling at the top of her voice.
    Children and their parents have been booted off of flights for less than what this child did for hours.
    Since it is US Airways we are talking about you probably won’t get much more than the vague email response that you got.
    Next time fly someone that US Airways doesn’t code share with.

  • bodega3

    In several posts he states there were no seats available to move to. Most flights these days leave full due to cut backs in frequency.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Unless it was a safety issue, I can promise you the airline did not want the bad press of “Family Kicked Off Flight” which happens every now and then.

  • Jim Zakany

    When we are asked to permit the filming of our son, we usually say, “no.” This is to protect his privacy and autonomy because he cannot make those decisions for himself.

    My son melts down in lines (although he made it through customs and immigration this last time without doing so – a first!). I would not enjoy having a random stranger recording his crying under those conditions.

  • Jim Daniel

    I fear mediation is an uphill battle, but I agree he’s entitled to some concessions by the airline.
    I recall a nonstop from SFO to YVR (Vancouver) with a child who started screaming as soon as we were on board. Her screams got worse as we gained altitude. The ENTIRE flight. As we were in line for Customs, the family was in line also and she was sleeping quietly in her fathers arms. Someone said to me, “don’tcha’ wanna’ just go slap her awake? “

  • PaulS98

    Raven, I believe this seems to be more of “your” issue about the video clips than anyone else’s in the long thread of comments. The videos are short and “innocent”. I know you believe otherwise, but can we focus on the particular case at hand?

  • $16635417

    He lost me on the “overnight” flight London to Philadelphia claim.

  • Jim Zakany

    A clean-and-hygienic zone might be nice. Wearing too much perfume would be a disqualifier, though.

    A non-flatulent row or two would be handy.

    People who bring fast food on board need to be segregated from everyone else. This I think we can all agree on.

    The sleepy/droolies group needs to sit together (they get first dibs on pillows and blankets).

  • disqus_wK5MCy17IP

    A passenger shouldn’t have to put up with having their seat kicked just because a child has “special needs.” There is no “need” to kick seats. If for some reason a parent insists that’s the case, then they should purchase the seat in front of them so their child can kick it.

  • Jim Zakany

    Yep!

    Earplugs, noise-cancelling headphones, and sunglasses. I’m good.

  • BillCCC

    If you had pinched my child I would have punched you in the face.

  • disqus_wK5MCy17IP

    You never know why a kid might be throwing a tantrum. I was once on a flight where a 4 year old ran up and down the aisles screaming because mom gave a bag of chips to his big sister. He screamed “chips!” for about 30 minutes. When the flight attendant finally got him back in his seat, next to dad, who was conveniently asleep through all this, he kicked my seat for 2 hours. When dad finally woke up, I asked him to have his son stop kicking my seat. Dad then kicked my seat for the remaining hour for the flight. All this because his mom wouldn’t give him chips.

  • Jim Zakany

    I think parents are better off talking to their doctors about this concern rather than hope some OTC medicine has a useful side effect.

    If the problem is congestion (which hurts as air pressure changes!) then a decongestant would work best. If it’s anxiety or stress, there may be better medicines.

    Benadryl is a zoom-pill for my daughter. Works great for localized insect-bite reactions, but it would not be a calming drug for her!

  • BillCCC

    I am sure that ‘someone’ was the bravest person in the world.

  • disqus_wK5MCy17IP

    Sure, you can film someone else’s kid when the parents take them out in public. But that doesn’t mean you should do it. Nor does it mean it should be put online. OP seems to be doing this to shame the parents, which isn’t any better than àmusement or entertainment. If the point was to get compensation from the airline, the videos didn’t need to go online. If he felt there was some compelling public interest here, OP could have posted audio, and at most a screenshot with the child’s face obscured. You know, maybe afford some consideration to the parents, which is what the OP is complaining they didn’t do for him.

  • Jim Zakany

    When my son was little he cried uncontrollably while we were waiting to take off. Everyone in our row found somewhere else to sit. As soon as we took off, he shut up and went to sleep.

    He just wanted to move. He was frustrated that we were just sitting there.

    One of my better flights, actually. Had a whole row to spread out.

  • rwm

    +1000

  • passportsandpushchairs

    And the same goes for sound. There is nothing in the contract that promises you a quiet, peaceful flight, even in first class.

    I was reluctant to watch the videos because, as a proponent of family travel, I was worried I would see the parents sitting there with headphones on, zoning out. But what I saw was a child (a young child) and parents who looked as if they were trying to calm her down. Her screams were absolutely irritating, and I feel badly for anyone who flew around her. But, like every person regardless of age, people have bad days, and she likely had no other way to express it. Maybe she was sick that day, who knows? Was she a lap child?

    I don’t think USAir has any responsibility here; there was no empty seat to switch him to (and that really wouldn’t have eliminated the sound) and they wouldn’t land early just to calm a screaming child.

    Unfortunately everyone has the right to travel, whether you want to see those people on your plane or not. The good news is no flight lasts forever.

    I can also almost 100% assure you those parents were more horrified than anyone else on that plane.

  • MarkKelling

    Depends on what my kids were doing at the time.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Agreed.
    But we’re not talking seat kicking here. We’re talking about this little girl having a meltdown and some random dude filming it, then putting it online.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Kids throw tantrums.

    The adults in your story needed the slaps, though.

  • Ian Parrish

    Two words for OP: EAR PLUGS!

    In fact, I can recommend a particular brand that works wonders for me…Mack’s PillowSoft Ear Plugs. There was a crying baby next to me on my flight from Japan last night…with those in, I didn’t hear a thing. I also have a decent set of noise canceling headphones. You don’t need Bose, you can get reasonable head phones for less than $100.

    The reality check is that there will always be children and babies on airplanes. They will probably cry. In fact, when you plan your travel, you should assume that they will cry. There is nothing you or the airlines can do about it. Don’t expect compensation in this case. In fact, I can’t fathom what Chris thinks there is to mediate here. Trying to shame US Airways into coughing up a voucher would be a waste of his political capital. Save that for a real case to mediate.

  • Jim Zakany

    I’m familiar with the developmentally-delayed folks in my area and let me tell you – if they’re hell-bent on kicking your seat, it’s getting kicked and there isn’t anything anyone can do about it.

    Yes, it sucks. No, it’s not right.

    But “should” just doesn’t factor into it.

    This is what makes DD folks challenging.

  • Jim Zakany

    Peltor Skull Screws
    Monoprice Noise-Cancelling Headphones

  • bodega3

    I am questioning the need for Chris to request these from the OP and posting them here.

  • Justin posted the first video on YouTube and sent me a link to it. Then he sent me the rest as .mov files. I suggested that if he wanted me to excerpt from the other videos, he might want to post them on YouTube. He posted them, and I embedded them.

  • CubsFan007

    Really? Thats the best you can do? I watched all the videos and the little girls is rarely visible (other than her feet kicking the seat back). And why would he subject himself to such ridicule?? Stick to the facts.

  • bodega3

    Can you scramble the child’s face?

  • Justin would have to do that on his end. I’m just embedding the video here, not hosting it.

  • PHXUSA

    US Airways stinks out loud in general and I am sure you are right, they didn’t want to look bad. But which is worse, publicity for booting a family off of a flight or this sort of beating by their potential customers.

  • Grant Ritchie

    Jim,
    I have to disagree. DD, autism, and Asperger’s are coming to be the new-millennium excuse for bad behavior, and they shouldn’t be. As an Asperger’s adult with a now 43-year-old Asperger’s daughter, I realized back in the 1970’s that you just don’t put up with it. My daughter made the toddler in the videos look like the baby Jesus, and I realized early on that she was my problem, not the general public’s. Whenever her screeching started up, I either took her some place away from other folks or, if I couldn’t do that, made sure nothing was wrong with her, then held my hand over her mouth until she ran down. No parent should EVER inflict an ill-behaved child, DD, autistic, Asperger’s, or otherwise, on innocent bystanders.

  • Grant Ritchie

    Why?

  • bodega3

    Because this isn’t the OP’s or Chris’ child. The adults are one thing, but this is a little girl and honestly, it is wrong.

  • Grant Ritchie

    Raven,
    Of course, special needs children shouldn’t be banned from flying, but they SHOULD be controlled, as should any child. As an Asperger’s adult with a now 43-year-old Asperger’s child myself, I can tell you that it is possible. Whenever my daughter used to act out at that age, either mom or I would first make sure that nothing was actually wrong, then hold her with a hand firmly over her mouth until she either fell asleep or decided to behave. No parent(s) should ever inflict a child like that on innocent bystanders.
    P.S. As an aside, our methods gifted my daughter with a terrifically well developed set of lungs __ as her husband can attest. :-)

  • tomjuno

    This has certainly been one of the most wildly entertaining threads on the Elliott site in a long, long time, both on topic and (mostly) off topic. And I don’t even have a horse in the race – having never taken a screaming child aboard with me, nor been discomfited by one on a plane. Thank all of you in the travelling classes for a lively time. Though in the Justin vs. Raven dust-up, I kinda lean toward Justin. Raven, who has offered perceptive comments in past threads, is rather pushing it this time round with that word “creep”. It’s loaded, that word is. You need a lot more going for your argument when you use it. Mind, I don’t think Justin deserves anything from the airline – it’s a crapshoot when you pile aboard with a bunch of strangers – and I suspect he didn’t really expect anything, other than being allowed to vent about a crazy-making, but almost impossible to correct, experience.

  • phil55

    I’m annoyed that the OP (or maybe Chris) writes that the flight was overnight. “On the overnight flight, the roar of the jet engines mixed with the cacophony of the child’s screams.” West bound transatlantic flights are always during the day, and USAir flight 729 from LHR-PHL in particular departs at 11:25am and arrives the same day at 3:50pm.

    It sounds like the OP is trying to mislead the reader into believing that this was happening at night while he was trying to sleep. I agree that this was an unfortunate situation that I would not want to be put in, but to twist the facts to try to make it seem worse than it was discredits your argument.

  • Thank you. I’ve been on a streak since Friday. But nothing beats the entertainment value of yesterday’s post on “free” things when you travel. Boy, that made everyone a little crazy, didn’t it? And here’s how I see it: If I can’t be right, then at least let me be entertaining!

  • Raven_Altosk

    The OP lost all credibility with me the moment I viewed the videos and noticed he did not bother to blur the face of the kid.

    And, if he claims ignorance on that, then the simple answer is not to post it or just post the audio.

  • Raven_Altosk

    My question was hyperbole to this OP who seems to think that kids are the only badly behaved people on an aircraft. Clearly he hasn’t flown IAH to LAS during New Year’s….

  • Raven_Altosk

    My point exactly.
    The OP lost all creds with me when I watched the video. Since the parents don’t tell him to stop or even really notice him, dollars to donuts that he was doing it on the sly…and that makes it worse.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Maybe you could un-embed it until he does so. He only has a few hundred hits on his youtube channel. You garner much more traffic…

  • Raven_Altosk

    Look at the video. It doesn’t look like the parents notice that this guy is filming. The angle he is holding the camera leads me to believe he is holding it like he’s watching a video, not trying to make one.

  • Jim Zakany

    You can see the daylight in the recordings. This wasn’t at night.

  • Jim Zakany

    I agree that autism is often used to excuse poor behavior. But I also know some severely disabled kids who cannot be controlled at times. When they go off there’s no one, including their parents, that are going to stop it.

    I know dozens, and most do NOT have that trait. But a couple of them do. That’s no fun for anybody.

  • gracekelley

    Boeing’s will

  • gracekelley

    Then they’d be sued for denying boarding based on
    discrimination against the child and the parents.
    2 as a FA I can tell you we are very limited on what we can due to the fact we can be fired when the parents complain.
    If it were me traveling as a passenger paying I’d have said something to the parents. What did you want the crew to do?

  • gracekelley

    Then the airlines will be sued for discrimination of making parent’s and kids sit “in the back” it is a sue happy world we live in. Lawsuit reform could fix a lot of issues in this country.

  • gracekelley

    No FA wants to be sued for dropping a baby or child or for having a child up in the aisle if things get bumpy. If passengers weren’t so quick to sue over everything things could be different. Im sorry for your experience I know it sucks I once had a kid kick my seat for 5 straight hours and his parent’s actually laughed when I said something. This is a no win situation.

  • gracekelley

    I dont think he’s a creep he just wanted to document. However, it’s a civil issue with the parents IMO. Also, I think it’s highly inappropriate to place anyone’s images online without their knowledge.
    Since you can’t get pretzels I doubt they are gonna start stocking crayons as he’s suggested that’s the parent’s responsibility. I personality carry crayons but that’s on my owm accord because I have a 4 year old. I’m always happy to share. I wouldn’t expect every crewmember to have them though sometimes your pilots can barely afford dinner so don’t expect stews to stock up on art supply but it never hurts to ask.

  • Grant Ritchie

    If the parents were that concerned, they could have held the child on their laps with a hand over his or her mouth until he or she fell asleep or decided to behave. It worked for me 40 years ago. It can work for any parent who gives a damn about their fellow human beings.

  • twres

    So you are willing to make excuses for the child’s behavior by saying she might have a condition, but then turnaround and are quick to label the OP as a creep, (all conclusions made just based off this one article)? This is a double standard.

  • gracekelley

    That had me scratching my head as well.
    Ear plugs, then place noise canceling headphones on and your golden until they start kicking seats!

  • Grant Ritchie

    Oh come on, Bill… that’s funny! :-)

  • gracekelley

    Yes and everyone not “allowed” in certain zones will promptly retain lawyers and scream discrimination

  • phil55

    You must not understand what a red eye flight is.

  • gracekelley

    Their are several companies that offer charters for not much more than commercial then you can be the only one in the cabin. Viola problem solved. Net jets is my favorite. Just saying

  • gracekelley

    More than logistics its discrimination. You can’t force people into a certain section for reproducing that’s asinine.

  • Raven_Altosk

    I said it was CREEPY to film someone else’s kid and then post it to the internet.

    It’s pretty obvious the parents are TRYING. It’s not like Mom is sitting there watching a movie and eating bon-bons.

  • gracekelley

    If they do divide sections up id like to see one for shoeless stinky feet and toe nail grooming and a section for folks that like to prop their feet up on the person’s seat in front of them and one for people that put their feet on tray tables. While were at it a sectiom for electronics as well so you can assign the most aggressive fa to work it! Yes sections do sound nice though.

  • frostysnowman

    I also have a kid who does not get sleepy from Benadryl. It’s not a perfect solution by any means.

  • technomage1

    I agree with Justin on the video. It’s a public space. You have no reasonable expectation to privacy. You can’t control your kid for 8 hours you deserve a public shaming like having a video of your ineptitude posted. Plus it’s a good way to show the magnitude of the problem.

  • commentfromme

    When an airline takes flight reservations, they are aware of every passengers birthday. They could start assisting the problem by placing groups with passengers of a certain young age at the back ( or the front ) and work towards a center point. Is it a perfect solution? No…but it would help. And noise does not often carry more than a few rows due to loud engine noise. The OP did say there were empty seats on his plane also. I dont see this as discrimination.

  • frostysnowman

    But where do you start the age range? And what is the cut-off age for kids to be in that section? My kids are 13 and 8 and well-behaved, and they don’t want to be near the screaming toddler, either. It’s like when the planes had smoking and no smoking sections, but you could still smell the smoke no matter where you were on the plane, especially if you were just a row or two behind. The people in the same spot near the “small kid zone” would have the same issues. It’s not logical.

  • Bill___A

    Airlines need to stop “not doing anything about” these sorts of things., These parents obviously do not know what is unacceptable and what is not. They need to be booted off the plane if they have not prepared/raised their kid properly. Hundreds of other fare paying passengers should not be made to suffer over the poor judgement/abilities of the parents.

    The only ones able to boot the parents off the plane are the airline staff. They need to be empowered to solve these sorts of problems before they get out of hand.

    Although the article notes that the premium seats are the only ones that are “advertised as quiet” I can assure you that airlines in general do not do anything in the premium cabins about this sort of thing either.

    Maybe it is awkward, but the only thing that’s going to work is to repeatedly boot these sorts of people off the plane until they learn what is expected of them.

    If they really have to desperately fly, they need to find a way to get their kids to behave..and if they can’t..too bad.

    I’d say the airline should not only give a refund but airlines in general should come up with standard ways to deal with this increasingly annoying problem and have an industry agreement on what needs to be done.

  • bodega3

    A child that age needs their parents to handle their behavior. The parents are the ones who should have gotten up and walked around with the child, calming her I at least see the father restraining her from kicking the seat in front of them. But regardless of the child’s behavior, to show the child’s face is wrong. It should have been blurred before imbedding it here. I don’t have a problem with seeing the parent’s faces.

  • Bill___A

    It seems as though they had ample opportunity to get the kid off the flight as it was delayed an hour
    As to the “turn the flight around” idea, if they do that a few times, people will smarten up. It had to be done with smokers. Obviously flights are not turned around every day due to people smoking on the planes – they learned – some of them the hard way. Some of these parents need to learn the hard way too.

  • dave3029

    Just my two cents worth….

    (1) The individuals being filmed were in a semi-public place and the video has not been used for profit. Fair use standards apply regardless of how creepy someone finds it to be.

    (2) “Slander” is a legal term for spoken offenses and does not apply. Written offenses are “libel”.

    Our “resident attorney” (Carver Clark Farrow, I’m looking in your direction) can verify or refute both points.

  • Jim Daniel

    Not really, she said it so ONLY I would hear her.

  • Thoroughlyamused

    +1000. If this were a drunken adult or even a rowdy teenager they would be kicked off in a heartbeat. Also, flight crews are more than empowered to deal with the issue; they choose not to most of the time. Look at all the stories about customers getting on the wrong side of FAs; FAs can simply say they feel threatened and POOF, the passenger is gone. Why is it that children and their parents get a pass on being loud and disruptive?

  • mah

    If we accept the premise that the plane is a public space so that filming is acceptable, then I am not sure how you can expect the airline to discriminate against families-which is what you are asking for when denied boarding or “family sections” at the back of the bus are the solutions. I have made several trans Pacific flights with infants and toddlers with no issue (they learned to fly early) but have also endured flights where my neighbor encroached on my space by necessity, making for a very uncomfortable flight. Yet I do not advocate “size challenged” sections or frankly that extra seats are purchased. What is needed is humane seating space on all planes.

  • gracekelley

    Yes and every time a family has or is kicked off a flight there will be a similar story as to what compensation the family deserves and the airlines will be sued for discrimination promptly driving ticket prices up. It’s a no win situation for both sides. Not to mention all the articles that would and have criticized the big bad airline for kicking a family off of a flight.
    I’d love to see some outrage over people propping their stinky bare feet up on the seat in front of them or toenail clipping in flight or am I the only one bothered by smelly feet in a cabin…..
    Unfortunately, people forget that public transportation means they have to deal with the public.
    While I can sympathize with the guy for his terribly bad experience he’s a pin head in a needle stack if you start addressing bad behavior on aircraft, there’s usually an “offender” on 99.9% of commercial flights.

  • Jeanne_in_NE

    In Raven’s defense, he has a little girl himself, right around the same age. We all get fixated on particular topics, sometimes to the point of not making any sense and using hyperbole (like yesterday’s discussion on the dictionary definition of “free”?). Read Raven’s comments for what they are: a loving father of a little girl, and get back to the main point of the article.

    Mr. Cohen wants to be compensated for having had a horrid flight experience. I would add that the only rational reaction US Airways could have had was at the beginning of the experience and booted the family from the flight. Since Mr. Cohen only had 9 minutes to make his connecting flight, he surely would have missed that flight. Not sure if he would have found missing his flight to be better or worse than the pounding headache from THIS flight.

  • Thoroughlyamused

    No, you make the assumption that the kid suffers from some kind of condition that makes them extremely disruptive to everyone else on the flight. Hate to break it to you but there are kids out there who just aren’t well behaved and will be disruptive without any kind of condition.

    Regarding the filming, I don’t see an issue. The OP was trying to prove a point: a passenger was being extremely loud and disruptive during the flight, and the crew did nothing about it, and the parents didn’t have the ability to stop the behavior. It’s obvious that the intent was to illustrate a point to the flying public about misbehaving children, not anything ill-intentioned, as you so desperately want to accuse the OP of. Seriously, grow up.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    Since you asked :)
    #1. Yes
    #2. True but mostly irrelevant. Slander and Libel are siblings, both being children of the tort of Defamation.

  • Thoroughlyamused

    Being a loving father of a little girl doesn’t give anyone the right to be obnoxious and condescending. Calling someone a creep when it CLEARLY wasn’t the intention behind the video is immature, and quite frankly Raven needs to grow up. If he can’t act in a mature manner and detach himself emotionally from the situation at hand, he shouldn’t participate, period.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Normally, I’d be with you. However, I take exception to the OP’s decision to video (and post online) this “evidence.” Also, this “evidence” just hurts him–I don’t see aloof parents here. I see parents trying desperately to do something with the little girl.

    Loser Parents (and Lord knows I’ve been seated next to them) deserve to be booted. These folks just look like they have a little girl who may have some issues.

  • Justin

    I looked at my communication with Mr. Elliot. I’m not sure if he or I used the term overnight. None the less, London is +5 GMT and Mainland Europe is +6. At the very best, we’re talking VERY EARLY MORNING for those of us living in the U.S. I for one wanted a few hours of shuteye on a long international flight.
    What I got was an unruly child screaming her lungs out for the better part of 8 hours.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Yes, but in this instance, the OP’s videos sink his case. The parents are clearly trying to “box in” the girl, and calm her.

    I have little tolerance for aloof parents or those ignoring their problem children. The video proves these folks are TRYING.

  • Thoroughlyamused

    Someone else said it best, if you can’t control your kid, don’t fly. Yes, kids cry and throw temper tantrums, but hours of it on end is unacceptable and unfair to other pax. There are multiple steps a parent can take, besides drugs, BEFORE a flight to help ensure a more peaceful experience for everyone. It’s taking a little bit of a leap to assume that these parents were doing everything they could to control their child. And yes, I watched the videos.

  • Thoroughlyamused

    Plus, it was US Airways. In my experiences they are not exactly jumping at the bit to help customers.

  • Raven_Altosk

    I’m wondering if doing that would get the parents arrested when they touched down….

    But I remember my mother doing the same to my sister when she was little and we were on People’s Express.

    Anyone remember People’s Express? LOL.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Fine, film it. Don’t post it on the internet unless you blur the kid’s face.

    I grow older, not up.

  • Justin

    Raven’s irrational behavior is bewildering and quite unsettling. He has gone as far as PERSONALLY attack me, call me a “creeper” without basis, and attempting to dig dirt up on my life, not even associated with me.

    Look at his post where he claimed I studied at Yale, taught High School Biology, and quit teaching to be a consultant as some contrived way to belittle.

    What rationale person goes to those lengths ?

    Honestly, Raven needs some PROFESSIONAL and PSYCHOLOGICAL help. Nothing more nothing less.

    Per my experience, without video, I have no proof. Mr. Elliott suggested I post the proof online so he could link to the story.

    Also, I arrived at my gate at 5:45 and plane was scheduled for disembarking at 5:54. Luckily, the connection was DELAYED like every flight from start to finish on U.S. Airways. Worked out in my favor for once!

  • Justin

    Mr. Elliott,

    One can say for certain, my story regarding proper etiquette and parental responsibility has surpassed the hot bed topic from yesterday by the sheer number of replies.

    So you’ve lived to entertain and one upped yourself!

  • devansroc

    The videos belong on YouTube with US Airways Flight in the title

  • Tripper1

    Justin…sorry to hear about your nightmare flight. I have had some unpleasant trips in the past but none as bad as the ones you posted. And then to have a bully like the Raven comment nonstop all day…he seems to be obsessed with harassing you. Here’s hoping your next flight is better! My mantra is…we fly because we have to…not because it is pleasant. I do seek ways to improve my flights so I will have to try the headphones mentioned in earlier posts.

  • Justin

    Cheers. I own a pretty decent pair, but not of the noise cancelling variety. Might be time to splurge a little and hope to “buy” peace of mind on my next travels.

  • AirlineEmployee

    And do what with it ???………what would be the thrill of watching a screaming tantrum throwing 2-3 year old on a video?…..you are paranoid.

  • MarkieA

    The problem with any kind of “permanent” family section is what happens when there’s, say, only one family on the flight? Guaranteed that airline won’t not sell the seats, so you end up with some poor schmuck(s) – probably me – in the family section, behind the curtain, miserable.

  • MarkieA

    I think it’s kinda creepy that you would spend time researching a stranger on line.

  • steverino

    Isn’t there a simple solution: If you don’t like flying with the general public, don’t take public transportation. You can always charter your own plane.

  • Alan Gore

    Shouldn’t aircrews stock earplugs just as they do aspirin, for critical need times like this?

  • Bill___A

    I think a little clarification is in order here. Discrimination would be, for example, if there was a bad Caucasian kid, and a bad Asian kid…and the Caucasian kid got kicked off and the Asian kid didn’t. It isn’t discrimination to boot a “bad” kid off the plane and keep the good kids on the plane.

    Furthermore, one can usually tell when it is a “special needs” kid being bad and a poorly raised kid being bad. I’ve seen lots of both.I can’t speak for everyone, but my brain makes some allowances for those who can’t help it, and it is annoying when it is just very bad parenting.

  • Bill___A

    This article is about a bad kid on a flight and the flight crew not doing anything about it. It isn’t about filming or you tube or whatever.

  • emanon256

    I too have a pair of the Shure ear phones, and I haven’t heard a screaming baby since I got them. I’ve had the same pair for 6 years now, and can’t travel without them. I have to replace the foam every 6 months or so, I got an 8 pack (4 replacmeents) for $20 on eBay.

  • emanon256

    Ha! I do the exact same thing, I get wound up and want to run! Our doc said not to use it on the plane for our son becuase sing it when not needed can lead to him buildign up a tolerance to is, and so far we have been lucky, he has been an angel on board. But he sure hates teh airport itself. I blame the TSA.

  • In all seriousness, this is an important discussion. I can think of many better and easier ways of entertaining people than writing about “free” mileage offers and crying kids.

  • emanon256

    I’ve never been a fan of the “Kids Sections” argument before, but what you describe actually sounds like it would work, and be a good thing. I think most people just say they want kid free flights, or to send kids to the back, but since you actually describe what and how, I like it!
    That said, I am still against compensation. Its a common carrier, and therefore everyone has a right to fly. Yes it really stinks, and was horrible no doubt, and I would be pissed too. But I can’t see how compensation would be owed either. Sorry.

  • emanon256

    So, since its a semi-public place, would the common carrier be liable for compensating the OP for the noise, when both the OP and the offending party were both transported per the terms of the common-carrier?

  • MarkKelling

    I looked to see if it was full moon. But I guess it is just the Halloween season that is making everyone so anxious to comment on your topics. :-)

  • whatexit

    90% of the time kids get out of control, it is the fault of the parents.
    Medical issues such as ear infections, colds, fever, nausea should be known by the parents. Thus they should reschedule their flight.
    The worst kind of parent is one who KNOWS their kid frequently throws temper tantrums and ignores them or makes excuses such as “oh he/she is just a little one…
    These people should choose other modes of transportation, such as their own vehicle.
    if kids get unruly before boarding, the Carrier should take others into consideration and deny boarding to the kid and family.

  • Boo! (Did I scare you?)

  • whatexit

    Here’s what some parents will say to benedryl or other ‘calming’ methods. “I don’t want to deal with my child’s normal sleep being disrupted”….Translate that to ” I have to deal with this little sh!t on a daily basis. The last thing I want is for him/her to be up all night because I knocked him/her out on the plane. So all of you will just have to deal with my little cupcake’s screaming and screeching”.

  • bodega3

    On an airline carrier, you are not in public space. The airline can tell you not to take a photo and you must comply. Disney is very strict about photo being taken of other children that are not yours. This video should have had the child’s face blurred.

  • Justin

    Touché. Popular sentiment appears to favor airlines taking a greater responsibility for handling unruly children and passengers. I’m glad the majority empathizes with my plight. A gut feeling tells me many of voters have walked in my shoes.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    I don’t see how the carrier bears any legal liability in the slightest. The reason is simple. Before liability can be imposed, the carrier must have breached some duty. The carrier is under no legal or contractual duty to keep the child quite, i.e. to maintain a quiet place.

  • TonyA_says

    What is your point?

  • BillCCC

    I find nothing funny about hitting children. I guess my sense of humour is different than yours.

  • BillCCC

    I guess that proves my point.

  • FQTVLR

    Most of my flights are international flights. And I too have had flights from hell with screaming children. It is time for airlines/FAA to require that ALL children have a seat regardless of age. Children do better in car seats in their own seats. And provide a benefit to those of us traveling without children. I know it is more expensive but it is also safer and more comfortable for parent and child. (Not to mention the rest of the passengers on the same flight.) Parents who do not purchase a seat on a long-haul flight for their children are bordering on abusive. This is not US Airways fault at all. Maybe he should find a lawyer who can get the names of the passengers with the child and sue them. After all, they are the responsible ones.

  • emanon256

    Thank you. That’s what I thought.

  • Justin

    Thanks Carver for your legal input.

    While U.S. Airways has no obligation to act, public admonishment is still legal. Between the family’s failure to control the child, and U.S. Airways turning a blind eye, the video does all the talking.

  • Justin

    Good question. Unfortunately, I expected the answer to mirror Carver’s response.

  • Justin

    Carver,

    Yes and no. In my case, I had no legal entitlement to “quiet”, but U.S. Airways could have listened to complaints. One of my main gripes, our plight was ignored.

    First class DOES guarantee a “Quiet Place” on European flights.

  • Lindabator

    Raven – unfortunately some people think just because you CAN do something, you SHOULD. Frankly, I agree the OP is overboard here – and I do agree he can post, but should blur her face (not that hard to do) if he is so intent on making his point. But just because you’ve had a less than stellar flight (I worked for an airlines, and am now a travel agent, and have had COUNTLESS horror stories onboard), you cannot expect the airlines to be a babysitter, and they need to walk a fine line when approaching a parent about their little darlings – and at least these parents tried, so not sure what else he expected – take her out back and beat her silent?

  • Lindabator

    Got that one beat – when I asked the parent to stop the child, she told me they were little people and needed to make their own decisions (REALLY??? At 8???) – I informed her the little darling was NOT a leprechaun, but SHE was supposed to be an adult and should start behaving like one, or I’d be happy to take the empty seat behind HER and kick her a@@ the entire flight. All of a sudden, he could behave – imagine that!

  • Lindabator

    Used to be that airlines DID tend to board from the back of the plane, and just automatically put families there, as they were closer to the bathrooms, could get galley service (good old days, right?) and could board first and not interrupt others. Unfortunately, parents now want to sit up front, load 50 bags, and interrupt everyone else. So do you really think they’s put up with being told where to sit?

  • Lindabator

    And a caring adult would take that into consideration – unfortuantely in today’s world its all about ME, and people could care less about others around them, and the difference between what we CAN do and what we SHOULD do. The videos were not needed to explain the points of the case, just for shock value.

  • Lindabator

    They’d go broke in a week! :)

  • Grant Ritchie

    I bow to your sense of moral superiority.

  • omgstfualready

    Oh boy – what a topic! I don’t have kids but that doesn’t mean I don’t like them but I have had many an outing disrupted (to be polite) by bad parents (I won’t blame the kid until they are 16). My niece is very well behaved and that isn’t because she’s a perfect kid, but her parents insist on it. I think a screaming or loud child is going to have to be accepted….to a point. If a decibel meter showed that there is actual potential for hearing damage then that is another matter and I would be more likely to support a claim that the business didn’t provide a safe environment. This is tough.

  • omgstfualready

    okay, I think we have new zones. Children and snorers go together in the very back. Public groomers go together and can go near smelly people (feet/perfume/breath/farters). Eaters must go together (a flight from Boston included a woman eating an entire seafood dinner, omg), readers/tv watchers/non talkers go together, quiet sleepers go together. If they allow cell phone calls then forget it – they must be checked in with the baggage underneath.

  • frostysnowman

    Nah, just put a credit card slot in the armrest!

  • frostysnowman

    I remember those days, although it wasn’t made known that type of seating was done on purpose. That’s a whole different era of flying, as you correctly noted! Please remember though, not all families have the expectations you have listed out above. We check bags and bring as little as possible on the plane. I learned many lessons about being a courteous flyer when I was a traveling salesperson and make sure my kids learn them, too.

  • gracekelley

    I’m not surprised. I’ve seen it all. A lady stripped naked crawling over people, clipping toenails, bare feet on tray tables, smearing poop on lav walls, peeimg in seats, gum stuck in hair on purpose by unparented children the list goes on. I truly feel bad for this guy but they can’t compensate every person plagued by bad behavior in flight because they’d go broke and they can’t discriminate against children amd parents. It’s a no win. Public transportation can be the pits sometimes amd frankly I don’t want to get decked for calling someone out. People already hate us enough just for having a uniform and wings…..

  • Lindabator

    But being drunk or failing to heed safety messages from the crew are a SAFETY issue for the airlines, and they are fully within their rights to remove you. Arbitrarily deciding who is too annoying to fly crosses the lines of personal rights – fine line there, and not one they are likely to cross, unless it escalates to a safety issue (and if the parents had yelled at the FAs, that would be considered an issue to get them bumped)

  • Lindabator

    I hear that!

  • Lindabator

    And that is why you and those like you are a welcome relief to the poorly behaved and just plain rude ones we seem to see so often now. And believe me, I remember flying as a kid during the “regulated” then unregulated days – all my mom had to do was give us the look – you knew better than to push it, because that privelege (NOT RIGHT) could easily be taken away the next time – you could stay home with grandma during the next family vacation – not fun!

  • y_p_w

    We flew SFO-JFK and managed to be seated near another family with two kids. One was maybe 8 was maybe one year old. They were extremely understanding although our kid didn’t really act up much. It was actually a pretty good situation because the older kid seemed to enjoy seeing a little kid. Of course this isn’t always what you’ll find. It worked pretty well in our case.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    There is no “No”.

    I’m not talking about moral, ethical, or business matters. Just legal ones. Emanon wanted to know about liability and the question is painfully simple. There is none.

    Regarding first class, you were in coach so that’s neither here not there.

  • Elizabeth

    You must have been at my hospital the night I gave birth to my son ;-)

  • Mark Cuban

    Not only should these get posted, but they should include name, address, phone, anything you can get your hands on.

  • Mark Cuban

    If the special need interrupts others then no ticket for them!

  • Mark Cuban

    If you’re in a public place you’re fair game. Period.

  • Mark Cuban

    You seem quite upset about the “perv” aspect. Overly sensitive. Like you’ve got a record of this or guilty or something.

  • ChBot

    Would love to understand how much is not much more !…

  • jpp42

    FWIW, elsewhere you described yourself as a “bird” which is common slang for a young woman (in many locations).

  • TonyA_says

    Just more White Whine First World problems that can be added to page 150 (Up in the Air section) of Streeter Seidell’s book. I just arrived in SE Asia from the long JFK-ICN-MNL flight and did have a crying baby on a bassinet in the bulkhead. Thank goodness J. Cohen was not there to film it and post it on youtube. That’s the only thing that was NOT UNINTENTIONAL in the article. Pretty creepy behavior – shoot, post, and use a well known consumer advocate to shame an airline. Now we know who the real cry baby is.

  • TonyA_says

    Yes we do but most of us do NOT film and post movies of young kids crying on youtube (especially without the permission of their parents).
    We would have believed you or Chris if you simply wrote down your experience. The video was not necessary, IMO.

  • Thoroughlyamused

    I think the real cry babies are the stuck up parents on here who can’t bear the thought of someone holding them responsible for their special snowflake’s outrageous behavior. I am a paying passenger and while I don’t have the right to absolute quiet, I do have the right to not have your misbehaving child scream incessantly for hours on end. Deal with your kids.

  • Annie M

    The time to argue is not after the flight, it is during it – you should have asked to have your seat moved. If there was even one single seat left you could have moved. Why the flight crew didn’t ask is beyond me as well but you need to think of what you can ask for AT THE TIME that would resolved the problem for you and make the request.

  • Thoroughlyamused

    You are correct, however, we all know that SOME (not all) FAs abuse their power and kick people off the plane who pose no real safety risk other than being a pain in the arse.

    Imagine if I started screaming very loudly, over say, a live football match streaming over my iPad. Let’s assume that I was stone cold sober. I’m sure I would be asked to quiet down, and if I continued to be loud, I would be dealt with accordingly. I would argue that screaming over football wouldn’t constitute a safety issue, but the FAs would be well within their rights to ask me to deboard the plane since my yelling was causing detriment to other pax.
    So, I ask again: why do children and their parents get a free pass on being loud and disruptive?

  • Justin

    Respectuflly Annie,

    The aircraft was pretty full. Flights schedules run less frequent and planes are sent off with fewer availabilities. I doubt anyone in their right mind would have “traded” seats.

    While not a problem exclusive to U.S. Airways, unruly children and passengers cannot be left ignored.

    A the very most, I hope my video SHAMES U.S. Airways for their lack of action.

    Per the parents, the looks, stares, and irritated passengers surrounding the family didn’t motivate action. Nothing was going to change the situation.

    May the blogosphere judge them to the fullest!

  • TonyA_says

    Yup, all my three boys are fine and attending school today. Definitely not cry babies.

  • gracekelley

    It depends on the company, type of plane, and crew requirements and if it’s just you or do you have a group of people. Google charter flights and there are pilots that will take you in a cessna in some areas. Everyone thinks commercial is so expensive amd sometimes it is but sometimes it isn’t and sometimes you cam charter one for about the same. If you do your research you may find a benefit in doing so. The bad news is you still must pass through security oh and the safety record isn’t as good but if flying is so bad and such a ripoff maybe private is the way to go.
    Or do what I do and drive unless its transcontinental or international.

  • TonyA_says

    Lots of free hard liquor might work, too.

  • gracekelley

    This bad kid was a toddler.
    How do you know he or she didnt have an ear infection. The crew doesn’t either so had they redused transport and the child turned out to be sick or autistic etc then what? If you guessed lawsuite that’s probably correct.
    Babies will cry. Toddlers will cry. You can’t refuse transport to families because their young child is crying.
    Now if an 9 year old is screaming your darn right were having a talk or they are leaving but this was a toddler.
    You cannot seriously expect the airline to deplane crying babies amd toddlers with no recourse whether its being slaughtered in the media or legally but it’s asinine to suggest babies and toddlers should be ejected for crying.

    I cant type on this tablet hope that makes sense just bought it not used to it.

  • gracekelley

    We are held accountable for every complaint even the “she ate a sandwich and I didn’t have one” complaints so I can tell you without a doubt any crewmember that ejects a baby or toddler for crying is getting FIRED STAT

  • gracekelley

    Overhead lol

  • Justin

    Tonya,

    Here’s a head scratcher. Parenting COMES WITH SACRIFICES. You’ve made the constructive choice to have children.

    1) Kid Sick – Time to Forgo your Travel Plans
    2) Kid hasn’t been taught how to behave – Time to Forgo your Travel Plans
    3) Kid doesn’t know manners – Time to Forgo your travel Plans

    I am DEAD SICK of HOVER PARENTS making excuses for why their LITTLE DARLING can do no wrong. If you can’t take responsibility, then the problem is YOURS.

    The hundreds of other travelers DO NOT ADORE your misbehaving child, even if YOU THINK the behavior is cute.

    Your boys might be fine, but you are EXCUSING BAD BEHAVIOR.

    To Answer your question, I am uncertain how to blur faces with video editing software. Personally, the video is pertinent to proving my case. I am sorry you think filming is “Creepy”.

    My 2 Cents, those crying Creepy are the same populace oft scared of ENDING UP on YOURTUBE for FAILING to PROPERLY PARENT.

  • bodega3

    Actually, if you have spent any time reading past columns, Tony is pretty clear of expectations on board a plane. Same with me. Flight attendants never realized my kids were on board when they spent time dealing with problem parents and kids. But to post the face of an young child is the issue for Tony, who is a parent, and for me as a parent, plain and simple. You were not in public space and you honestly crossed a line for me as a parent. If you wanted to post your child’s photo. which I don’t think you have one, that is one thing. Before you do this again, learn to blur faces of children you have no permission to show. I am wondering if and when you might get a letter from a lawyer about this from the parents.

  • bodega3

    He stated the flight was full. There isn’t much that can be done if there is no seat to move to.

  • gracekelley

    A commercial aircraft is public transportation therfore public space
    I don’t think it’s morally acceptable to post peoples image online with out their knowledge. It happens to crewmembers a lot but thats just an opinion. Legally, he can film in a public place and airport’s and aircraft are public space.

  • Raven_Altosk

    Raven is actually my name. I know it’s often associated with females and the jackasses in middle school didn’t ever let me forget that. :|

  • bodega3

    According several carriers who have asked people to not take pictures, it isn’t public space as the air craft is owned by a business, just like Disney won’t let you take photos of children at their various theme parks. I have been at an airport, not in the US, where people were approached by men with BIG guns and told they could not take photos…this was in Mexico.

  • TonyA_says

    I am not excusing bad behavior nor do I want to be the political correctness police.
    I choose to ignore this problem even if I am just as irritated as you or anyone else.
    But seriously those who think they can or may go about filming every irritating thing in public and post them on youtube should really think twice and ask if they are solving the problem or being part of the problem.

  • Justin

    Your are mistaken about the letter of the law. A plane is a public space.

    Carter, the resident lawyer even reaffirmed the fact. You have NO RIGHTS or EXPECTATION to privacy when in public.

    I am not using the video for commercial purposes. Thus, I am in my full legal right to film as I so choose.

    While I prefer not to show a child’s face, the intent of my video is clear. Bad behavior needs admonished and the lack of intervention by U.S. Airways was irreprehensible.

  • Justin

    People who have had enough of the lackadaisy “Woah is Me” excuses. Maybe the family will listen next time and not ignore the plight of surrounding passengers. U.S. Airways wins no trophies either for their inept responds.

    The V.P.’s response reads like a parenting manual and an excuse book for why their flight attendants evade helping. FA can manage drunk, disorderly, and mouthy adults. Yet, are set powerless by a family and child.
    I’m not being heartless, but by no means am I sugar coating. Families need to travel, but children must behave if to accompany adults. Society seems to be taking a whirlwind downfall on parenting.
    Long story short. You may disagree with my posting of the videos. I give you the right to have an opinion. Legally I have violated no laws. I don’t know how to blur faces and my ineptitude for video editing bares little on the final response. Video proof is pertinent to my case.
    Long story short, society is equipped with cameras (cell phones, video surveillance, etc). Expectations of privacy in public space are all but a bygone era.

  • Crowley Assistant

    Yes, a child crying/screaming for a long time is annoying to listen to. I agree. However, from the video it shows the parents attempting to calm the child. USAir, in my opinion, has nothing to do with this. It is not their job to keep children calm – it is the parents responsibility. By that screaming, I’m sure the parents were frustrated by their child as well and felt bad for other passengers. But what can they do in the middle of an overseas flight? You can’t kick the family off the plane.
    To ask for a refund seems a bit entitled.

  • Sarah M.

    Justin, you aren’t doing yourself any favors here. Step away from the capslock key, it is not your friend.

    I have been in your seat. Well not exactly that one, I was in the one in front of a child screaming that bad or actually worse. I honestly thought the kid was going to choke at some point. And I had the added joy of being in the seat he was kicking. For five hours. And I don’t particularly like children. I spend as little time around them as possible because I find them annoying at the best of times. But so what? I would never dream of asking anyone for compensating me for my discomfort. (Although an apology from the parents would have been nice.)

    It wasn’t the kid’s fault, he was way too young to understand how his behavior affected others. It wasn’t the airline’s fault, they didn’t make the kid scream, and it wasn’t even the parent’s fault since they were honestly trying to calm him. Sometimes unfortunate things happen. If you couldn’t even find the fortitude to ask if another seat was available at the time, I really have zero sympathy for your post facto show of distress.

    Oh, and FYI, it’s “woe is me” not “woah is me”. I have no idea what that second phrase could even mean. Especially, since you seem to be the only one here throwing your own public pity party.

  • Justin

    Sarah,

    U.S. Airways chose to board and allow to stay on board a cranky child throwing a hissy fit. U.S. Airways earns no brownie points taking off with said “Enfante Terrible”.

    Hundreds of paying customers were impacted as a direct result of their lackadaisy action. Flight attendants can handle drunks, disorderly, and belligerent travelers, but are shut down by a child? I know children require sensitivity, but the family was not calming the child down.

    Give me a break, as no child stays cranky 8 hours, if the parents were doing their job. Mind you, if the child was sick, then time to cancel one’s vacation or extend the trip until said child is well.

    So no pity parade. The fault is squarely the parents for failing to parent or prepare for the child’s well being. U.S. Airways shares blame for OUTRIGHT ignoring the entire situation.

    P.S. – Are we really breaking this conversation down to grammar policing? I’m so sorry I made a grammatical error. I humbly apologize.

  • bodega3

    This was on Chris’ site awhile back. Carriers do have rules about photography of other people on their planes. Please read:

    http://upgrd.com/matthew/thrown-off-a-united-airlines-flight-for-taking-pictures.html

  • bodega3

    Google photography on airlines and you will see that your are not allowed to take other peoples photos. For some reason I can not cut and paste them here but so far I have found the rules for AA and UA. In fact, there is an article about UA that was written up by Chris not so long ago.

  • Bill___A

    I can generally tell if a kid is being disruptive due to bad parenting or some other issue within a couple of minutes. Although some kids have this and that disorder, the overwhelming majority of the time it is severely poor parenting. Furthermore, some certain cultures regard boys as “cherished” and let them run wild (told this by someone in that particular culture and have seen it many times).
    There are reasons to make allowances but I think the point is that when it is bad parenting and it is 98% the parents fault, they should be booted off the plane rather than disrupt 300 other people for the next 8 hours. If there is a fear of lawsuits, change the law. Give them a refund. They don’t need to be on the plane and the rest of us shouldn’t have to be the ones putting up with it.
    Once it becomes well known that this can happen, I would imagine with a lot of certainty that many parenting skills would suddenly improve quite a lot and we’d all be happier.
    It seems that every time there is a “bad kid” report, there are bleeding hearts that want to look for every possible excuse, other than the fact that the kid is ill behaved due to very bad parenting. It is pretty easy to tell the difference.

  • Bill___A

    So are you held accountable for when there is a bad kid and you didn’t do anything about it? Seems to be two sets of rules here.

  • Bill___A

    I guess they should pull a glider behind for all the bad passengers:)

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    ROTFLMAO

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    Just a point of clarification.

    There are two different sets of rights which are being confused.

    An airline is a semi-public place. It’s generally open to the public, but the owner sets rules. That means on one hand there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. Justin has the legal right to tape (as opposed to a bathroom). However, the owner has the right to set rules for entrants (i.e. passengers) which may restrict the exercise of these rights

    And his name is Carver, not Carter :)

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    There is a huge difference between a drunk disorderly person and a family with child.

  • Benjamin Barnett

    Not to mention, you are drugging your kid for your own convenience. I can’t believe that people consider giving medicine to a kid who isn’t sick a viable option.

  • Benjamin Barnett

    I’ll have to see if I can get my kids to pull that one some time :)

  • Justin

    Carver,

    Short of an adult knowing better, an unruly child or adult are merely different in namesake.

    Both are huge distractions and safety concerns. A child throwing a “hissy fit” can cause nearly the same amount of problems as a drunk, belligerent, or disorderly grownup.

    I.E. damage to the aircraft, harm to other passengers, etc.

  • Justin

    double post. delete me.

  • Jim Zakany

    I was trying to say, politely, that Phyllis was making things up. Probably an attempt to justify her beliefs.

  • Jim Zakany

    What’s public about a commercial airliner?

    It is private (corporate) property.

  • Freehiker

    People pay $300 for the Bose because they think they’re the best, but they’re simply not. They are very overrated.

    I’ve owned multiple pairs of Bose over the years until I found the Shure “in-ear” model earbuds. I immediately sold my Bose on eBay and have never looked back.

  • Justin

    You’ve confirmed two things here:

    1) Airlines do have the power to act, but so choose not to in my instance.

    2) Carver already substantiated the an airline is public space and recording is allowed. I’d equate my experience to a “personal event”. I was personally inconvenienced by the actions of another.

    None the less, I am going to guess an airlines disclaimer is similar to forced arbitration. Probably not enforceable when specific circumstances arise. I.E. I’m not using these videos for commercial purposes and only to further explain my plight.

    U.S. Airways has seen my video, per the reply from the Airlines, and not once raised concerns over my actions.

  • Jim Zakany

    I was thinking along the lines of a cookie. “Hey, you weren’t an ass. Here’s a cookie.”

  • bodega3

    I haven ‘t found any rules with USAIR on this, which might be why. But other carriers do have them. Keep in mind for the future, filming some else’s minor child might land you in hot water.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    Really?

    A small child has the same destructive power as a 200lb man?

  • Justin

    Carver,
    I think you missed my point. Whether a 200lb man or a child, both can cause sufficient damage. Maybe not in the same proportion as a grown adult, but we’re not talking par for par.
    Kicking seats, throwing objects, yanking at upholstery can wreak plenty of havoc. Kids are less likely to think about what’s broken, too.
    None the less, the child and family should have never been allowed to board or remain on the aircraft.
    The golden rules apply:

    Kid Sick – Cancel Trip
    Kid Sick on Trip – Postpone Trip until child is well
    Kid unable to behave in public – Don’t travel until child learns how
    Parenting is a TOUGH JOB, but having children requires scarifies. The general populace does not find the misbehavior of one’s “Little Snowflake” cute.

  • dave3029

    No, it’s not – – it;s a piece of equipment owned by a corportion, operated for profit by public accommodation. So are an amusement park, a grocery store, a concert hall, etc. Some venues you pay to get into, some you walk into free. The term is one of legal definiton and if you read our “resident attorney” Mr.Farrow’s response to my comment, you would noticed he agreed with my assessment.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    Justin

    That’s just silly. A drunken man can be physical danger to those around him. An unruly child is an annoyance, one which can be controlled far easier. When I did criminal defense, I had clients who when they got liquored up, they were truly evil. The secretary, a friend, used to get the crap beat out of her whenever her husband got drunk. She would come to work wearing dark shades. Thank God she finally left the bastard. And he was a little itty bitty guy.

    While a child can cause damage,, they are hardly in the same category. It is disingenuous to compare the two.

  • whatexit

    Umm,….where has anyone’s right to privacy been violated?
    Case closed.

  • whatexit

    It’s about time people stopped being intimidated into silence when the issue of recalcitrant behavior arises.
    In fact, the best way to shame another into seeing their behavior as abhorrent is to publicly embarrass them. After all, their acts were in PUBLIC…
    Moral to the story, if you don’t wish to be a video on youtube, don’t make a jerk of yourself.

  • Lillith272

    This is the story of my life. I always get the demon children everywhere I fly. Last week, I had to endure getting kicked by a “lap baby” that clearly was too big for the lap for the entirety of a 5h flight. Then, because that was her only way to get the child to stop kicking, momma busted out the saggy old breast. At least cover yourself up in a close public space like this.

    The flight was very, very turbulent and mom was asleep, not holding the kid properly. More than once I was about to tell her that her snowflake was a potential safety hazard and that she should at least attempt to hold on to him when it gets rocky. If I get my head smashed in by a flying lap baby projectile, I would sure as hell sue the parents,….and throw it back.

  • bodega3

    Yes a child’s.

  • Freehiker

    Nice troll. 10/10

  • Annie M

    I have no doubt that the video will shame US Airways,

  • Justin

    I’m glad there is empathy for my plight. U.S. Airways can excuse their lack of intervention, but videos don’t lie. The family failed to act appropriately to calm their child. Matter of fact, the family shouldn’t have been allowed to board or asked to leave as their child was unruly prior to disembarking.

    It’s time airlines start thinking up solutions. Snacks, crayons, etc might help as distractions.
    Parents also need to accept responsibility, too.
    Long story short, you can relive a small portion of my “Hell” and amplify the fun by 8 hours.

  • Justin

    Carver,

    I am no downplaying the seriousness of abusive adults. However, I invite you to visit a classroom and witness an upset child pick up chairs and topple desks. An unruly child is able to cause more than sufficient damage.

    FYI, We’re not comparing apples to apples.

  • Justin

    U.S. Airways never mentioned my filming as an issue in their replies.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    I think you are. That a kid can be disruptive is not the point. The issue is who should be removed from an airplane. I suspect few, if any, passengers are concerned for their personal safety when they see a devil child with its parents. I suspect more passengers are concerned when the see a belligerent drunk. The belligerent drunk presents are far greater safety risk than an unruly child.

  • whatexit

    How so? Explain…..The child is in full public view.
    There is no expectation of privacy here.
    If walking down the street or riding in your car and your kid is screaming. You realize someone has their cell phone recording in the direction of your kid….Do you believe at this point your kid has any expectation of privacy?What would you do, rip the cell phone or camera from the person’s hands?
    You realize, if a complaint were filed against you, there could be criminal sanctions, do you not?
    If you relish your privacy to that extreme, I suggest you remain indoors.

  • whatexit

    Why do you deliberately dodge the point?
    The OP is stating a fact. Unruly or downright bratty kids can create just as much of a nuisance than an adult.
    Look, no matter how many times one tells their kid or how hard they try to convince themselves, their kid is NOT special…..There are 75 million other kids in the country. Bearing and raising a child is not a big deal.
    I am one of millions of people who are sick of parents who tell their little cupcakes that they are the greatest thing since the invention of perforated paper towels. The kid starts to believe it and the parent then regrets it. Because once a kid figures out he or she can do no wrong, that is all he or she does…..

  • whatexit

    Yeah, well the kid SHOULD be removed and not permitted to fly until the kid is taught to behave.

  • whatexit

    You are incorrect. The aircraft is indeed a public space.
    And of course the typical lib response. I’m suing.
    Hey little store, got a question….Sue for WHAT?…Let’s say it was your kid./….So you carted your kid through an airport past thousands of people and hundreds of surveillance cameras. Did you cover your kid’s face? If a bystander had been recording their child and your precious one got into the shot and you later found the video on youtube, your reaction is to file a lawsuit? What could you possibly expect to receive?
    Sue. Good luck….People like you quick to sue because the neighbor didn’t wait until precisely 8 am to start his mower instead fired it up at 7:59 are the reason why this country so desperately needs a loser pays civil court system.

  • whatexit

    Ok those are the rules of the carrier. They are not state or federal law.

  • whatexit

    Immaterial. You stated something to the effect of a letter from an attorney. That is a threat of a lawsuit.
    The passengers do not have standing. The air carrier does. So a passenger has no standing to file a suit just because they were in the focal area of a camera lens.

  • whatexit

    “Keep in mind for the future, filming some else’s minor child might land you in hot water.”

    How so? Explain that.

  • whatexit

    And when Mexico takes back California, that would apply. Until then Mexican law has ZERO importance to the US…

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    I can only suggest that you read the threads again, critically, and not through jaundiced eyes

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    Maybe. I don’t believe I’ve given an opinion one way or the other.

  • bodega3

    I suggest you don’t take photos of children who are not yours. If could get you in trouble. Ever wonder why news shows blur children’s faces?

  • bodega3

    I suggest you do a little homework. Several carriers have rules about photography. An airline company owns the plane and can have rules about what you may or may do. Take a look at AA and UA, their rules can be found very easily by googling them. Stores, malls can also restrict you. Just because you think you can’t, you can’t always.

  • bodega3

    In case you were not aware, flights do go to airport outside of the US. Countries have different laws and you need to be aware of what you may or may not do in those countries.

  • bodega3

    Since you may not be aware of this, there are airports in places not located within the USA. Knowing the laws of the countries where you land, could help keep you out of trouble.

  • bodega3

    And your point is?

  • bodega3

    I doubt anyone would wish to stand between you and an angry parent if that parent felt you did something wrong regarding their child…especially if this happened on AA or UA which has a very clear policy on photography on their planes.

  • Justin

    No law violated bodega. Public Place, Public Face.

    Big brother is always watching and to think that actions aren’t being filmed daily borders on naivety. If not the government watching, cell phone cameras are at work.

    Welcome to the modern world. Whether we like it or not, technology is a reality.

  • Justin

    Like it or not, technology is here to stay. If not the NSA or Government’s nefarious excuse to spy for “Fearism”, then citizens fill the void.
    The old saying never fails. Act accordingly when in Public.

  • Justin

    Hover Parents. The bane of our existence.

    Never the child, always another to blame, for “cupcakes” misbehavior.

  • Justin

    Carver,

    Let’s transpose your example into another scenario. One or more unruly children distract the driver of a car. What are the possible outcomes?

    1) Car Accident
    2) Children are hurt / Killed

    So to say unruliness from youngsters is benign is utter malarkey.
    We’re not talking malicious intent and criminal law. We’re talking real world consequences.

    Now on an aircraft. Yes, the risk is less. A grown man isn’t likely to take down a flight any more than a child.

    Can a grow man HARM more and Cause more damage? Yes.

    Can a child still hurt people and cause damage? Yes.

    Neither the actions of an unruly child nor adult are tolerable. Plain and simple.

  • Justin

    Very true.

  • bodega3

    There is a law of common courtesy on dealing with children that gets overlooked by people who wish to abuse their use of technology to prove a point.

  • Justin

    Carver,

    If a kid isn’t able to behave, he or she is not ready to be taken places. See above, as children misbehaving can cause accidents, too.

    Parents need to teach children manners and respect. Can’t take the initiative, accept the consequences.

  • bodega3

    And the manners you were taught to show a child’s face on the internet to prove a point is where in the handbook?

  • Justin

    Notice not a single objection to my filming was raised by U.S. Airlines, their V.P, or customer relations.

    Therefore, your argument falls flat. I’m documenting a problem and so long as it’s not for commercial purposes, I’m well within my legal right.

    A lawyer will laugh the family out of court. Mind you, I don’t think these folks were even Americans. I believe British.

  • Justin

    Keep in mind, when you’re over international airspace.

    Not a single objection was raised by the airlines. I’ll keep filming when I see a wrong occur.

    Those who whine the most, fail to speak up. Those who speak up, expect criticism from those who wind the most.

  • Justin

    If Big men with Big guns tell me to stop, I’ll oblige. I have no desire to end a participant on “Locked Up Abroad”.

    Your outlandish example need not apply right now.

  • Justin

    Bodega,

    So when you go to the beach or public place, do you blur the faces of all surrounding bystanders, including children when filming?

    If not, shame on you! Maybe the beachgoer, child, family, etc didn’t want in the picture or video!

    Notice how ludicrous your argument sounds?

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    Can a grow man HARM more and Cause more damage? Yes.

    And that’s why a drunk man is booted off a plane and an unruly child is not. That’s the point I’ve been vainly trying to make. It’s about degree and likelihood. Plain and simple

    The rest of your post is sound and fury signifying nothing, consisting of strawman arguments and made up scenarios.

  • Justin

    Where’s those parents law of common courtesy for making hundreds of other passengers not suffer for their choice to bring on a sick, crank, or agitated child?

  • Justin

    Strawman arguments?

    No less strawman argument than yours. You give the scenario of a drunk man causing damage on a plane. Is it possible and does it happen, Yes?

    Do kids distract parents and cause car accidents? Yes

    Can a kid pick up objects, throw items, kick, scream, and cause damage? Yes.

    The reason a drunk man is tossed and a child is ignored has NOTHING to do with the magnitude of damage. Here’s the reasoning:

    1) Adult SHOULD KNOW how to behave. A parent is responsible for teaching children manners.

    2) It’s be HUGELY unpopular and families would run to the media if tossed. A grown adult garners FAR LESS sympathy.

  • whatexit

    “Something wrong”? That’s an opinion.
    I would not be surprised if you were one these over protective helicopter parents.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    If we must…

    The discussion is about an unruly child on a plane. The question posed by you was why are drunks tossed and unruly children give a pass.

    FA can manage drunk, disorderly, and mouthy adults. Yet, are set powerless by a family and child.

    My assertion is that they are not in the same category. You replied,

    Short of an adult knowing better, an unruly child or adult are merely different in namesake.

    An assertion I found ludicrous and stated as much, repeatedly. To support your equating the two you gave the example of distracting a driver in a car. A scenario which is patently impossible in a commercial airplane setting.

    I submit to you that you cannot create a realistic scenario on an airplane, in which an unruly child, particular a little one, presents remotely comparable danger to other passengers. As I stated,

    An unruly child is an annoyance, one which can be controlled far easier.

    But perhaps your powers of imagination surpass my own.

    Now, as I said to whatever, I have taken no position on whether the child should have been removed, and accordingly the parents.

  • whatexit

    “Special needs”….Unreal.. When I hear ‘special needs child’ my skin starts to crawl.
    It seems half the parents nowadays think their kids are ‘special needs’..
    Is a kid who has a propensity to throw temper tantrums at the drop of a hat ‘special needs’?

  • whatexit

    Throughout my son’s school career as parents we got exposed to the ADD and ADHD craze. it seems that ever male child was recommended for drug therapy. And of course some of the parents of these kids were claiming their kid was ‘special needs’…

  • Lillith272

    I wholeheartedly agree. I once had to discipline someone else’s children on a flight from London because the mother instead opted to watch a goddamn romcom. Her kids were the epitomy of obnoxious and drove everyone around them crazy. She didn’t give a damn and watched her movie. So I had to yell at her kids instead. Even then she didn’t care. Airlines need to step it up and make it clear to the parents that they have a responsibility while on the plane. If as an adult you’d scream at the top of your lungs, the pilot would divert the flight and you’d get escorted off the plane.

  • Justin

    While some ambiguity between an adult and child behaving, parents are due the ultimate.

    Taking a sick, misbehaved, unruly, younger aboard a plane was ill advised.

    I know no one wants to cancel or postpone their plans, but life happens. No one need suffer for the poor decisions of another.

    I’m just flabbergasted U.S. Airways couldn’t bother to speak up on behalf of passenger complaints. Ridiculous.

  • Justin

    Carver,

    You’re comparing apples to oranges. No one is making the assertion of equal risk. I am simply stating that a child is able to cause distraction and damage aboard an aircraft.

    Kids get mad and act out. Cue my video. Was the girl going to cause much damage- Doubtful. Except maybe to the chairs by kicking them.

    Still, ill behavior is ill behavior. Yes, an adult knows better. A child does not. The parent holds responsibility to teach the kid manners or to medicate if sick. Optimally, good parents postpone if the child is sick.

  • Justin

    There’s plenty of excuses for why a problem happens. It’s the solution that really matter. ADHD and ADD are so over-diagnosed, that parents use the label as a daily crutch.

    Good, solid, parenting is what’s often lacking and being we’re a busy society, parents rather take the quick fix.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    I certainly don’t blame you for backtracking from an untenable position. But your comment speaks for itself

    Short of an adult knowing better, an unruly child or adult are merely different in namesake.

    merely different in namesake. Or to use the original Shakespearean

    What’s in a name? that which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet;

  • Justin

    Carver,
    Are airlines running a business or popularity contest? Regardless of the individual, unruly is unruly, by any other name. I.E. Whether an adult or child, the position remains the same – Damage can occur.

    It was you, not I, who professed a 200lb man is equal to a child. Your argument is Apples to Oranges. We’re talking principle and not equality.

    Principle, an unruly child can cause damage just like a grown adult. Does the grown adult pose a more empirical threat? Sure, a child is no where near 200lb.
    Should passengers have to deal with unruly children, unruly adults, or any misbehaved passenger? NO.

    Airlines need to stop trying to run a popularity contest in lieu of the safety and comfort of all others onboard.

  • Carver Clark Farrow

    Sorry, but taking things out of context doesn’t change the discussion. My original objection wasn’t about unruly adults but comparing unruly children to drunk adults.

    I repeat once again

    FA can manage drunk, disorderly, and mouthy adults. Yet, are set powerless by a family and child.

    That was the statement which I vehemently disagreed with, i.e. the comparison of a drunkard and unruly child. This thread has gone on for some time, and clarity can get sacrificed, so lets put the cards on the table and both “man up”, as the expression goes. Do we each possess the courage of our convictions?

    I will bare all, and state in plain language my sole objection so there is no misunderstanding and give you the opportunity to either agree or disagree. I submit that it is grossly unfair to compare an unruly child with a drunk adult in terms of airplane and passenger safety. Do you agree or not? A simple yes or no is all that is required. Of course, explanations either way are cheerfully read.

  • pauletteb

    Prohibiting lap children would be a good start. If parents had to pay for these kids to fly, there would be far fewer screaming infants/toddlers and far fewer incidents like this one.

  • pauletteb

    Your hospital analogy is ridiculous! BTW: Choosing not to pay for a seat so that your child can be more comfortable in his/her familiar car seat IS under your control.

  • Justin

    Carver,

    The scenario between a drunk, disorderly, and mouth adult and a child was for comparative purposes of two differing extremes. You missed the overall point I made.

    Here’s a comparison you might find more palatable. It’d be like going to a hospital for a gunshot wound, but being told they’re unable to treat a paper cut.

    Risk aside, we all agree children require a higher degree sensitivity, but the crew shouldn’t be rendered powerless to act. Training has prepared U.S. Airways to handle your “200 lb man”, but not a child? Ridiculous.

  • Justin

    On my flight to Europe, there was a lady sprawled across a row of seats, in the labor position. While everyone was disembarking, here this lady remain passed out, more than likely drunk as a skunk.

    Public travel affords us the luxury of “seeing it all”.

  • Nancy Nally

    Virgin American already has them in the seat backs for their in-flight system…

  • Nancy Nally

    Totally agree on the non-flatulent row. I spent several hours on a recent flight sitting next to a man who must have eaten a whole 5lb bag of beans immediately before boarding the flight. I was in the window seat with him next to me on the aisle. He spent the whole flight gassing me so badly that I spent the entire time pressed against the window gagging. Thank goodness it was a relatively short flight.

  • Pascal Sauveur

    As a Dad with 2 young kids who flies a lot, after listening to this you can tell the child is not just cranky but is in pain or sick. If the child was screaming for an hour on the ground delay and not agreeing to be seat belted in, US Airways should have had the family removed. As parents they should have clued in that this was not the day to fly with their child. I would have been mortified if one of my children subjected a full plane to this annoyance. As for 8 hours of this I agree that this is not acceptable. US Airways could easily agree that a gesture of goodwill would be the proactive thing to do and credit your account with miles or give you a voucher for a significant discount on future travel (if you ever do decide to fly with them again). Did the parents not take the child to the back of the aircraft (galley) for a time out of change of scenery? Even walking the child up and down the aisle to tire her out would have perhaps lead to a tired baby which would have slept. I also would have packed some meds baby appropriate to help get the screamer to sleep and calm down. Did the parents at least tend to diaper changes, food etc? I can’t tell from the clips if the parents did anything here. The OP states they did nothing. Very said way to spend 8 hours Cohen and I totally agree with your reasoning of being angry. I am shocked this situation did not lead to air rage and an all out flight with neighboring paxs. You deserve some compensation for enduring this given the length of the tantrum and loud screaming.