They canceled the flight anyway — can I get a refund?

The fee does plainly apply at the time of cancellation. Finding out later that the flight would have been cancelled anyway has no bearing on her calling and canceling before the hurricane occurred.

I voted yes, just because it’s worth a shot. I wouldn’t press it overly hard, but.. While technically, the airline is in accordance with their contract.. There’s enough squirrelly here that throwing a shot at asking them to reconsider might be successful. I wouldn’t push very hard on it, but.. One of those things “Hey, take a look at this” and if they say nope.. Well, they say no.

I just looked up United’s waiver for the Nor’easter last 7NOV.

They actually issued it for 6NOV-8NOV flights. So if her original flight was on 6NOV (as the story says), then she might be able to have the refund/change claimed on the Nor’easter waiver code instead of Hurricane Sandy. [I say "might" because I have never come across this kind of issue before.]

Exception Policy for Northeast Winter Storm – November 6-8
November 6, 2012

Severe winter weather is expected to impact the northeastern United States on Wednesday, November 7 and Thursday, November 8. Customers with travel to, from, or through the cities below between November 6 and November 8, 2012 are permitted to voluntarily change travel plans or refund their ticket within the parameters provided below.

In anticipation of the storm, United plans to suspend most service to and from the New York area between 12:00pm ET on Wednesday, November 7 and 12:00pm ET on Thursday, November 8. Weather conditions will likely cause additional delays and cancellations at other northeast airports.
Weather permitting, United’s schedule will operate as follows:

- New York/Newark (EWR): Between 12:00pm ET Wednesday, November 7 and 12:00pm ET on Thursday, November 8, United intends to operate long-haul international flights and flights to and from United hubs, but will suspend most remaining services.
- New York/Kennedy (JFK) and New York/LaGuardia (LGA): United intends to operate most flights through 12:00pm ET on Wednesday, November 7, with all services then suspended through 12:00pm ET on Thursday, November 8.

At this time United plans on operating a full schedule out of
Washington/Dulles (IAD).

Please note that these operational plans are subject to change as the weather event develops, so customers should visit united.com to check the status of their flight prior to departing for the airport. MileagePlus® members are encouraged to enroll in flight status notification updates through the communication preferences on their MileagePlus profile.

Impacted Cities:

Allentown, PA (ABE)
Hartford, CT (BDL)
Manchester, NH (MHT)
New York/Newark (EWR)
New York/Kennedy (JFK)
New York/LaGuardia (LGA)
Philadelphia, PA (PHL)
White Plains, NY (HPN)

Dates:
Travel Dates: November 6 – November 8

Rescheduled Travel:
Travel agents may make changes or voluntarily refund tickets they have issued within the guidelines set forth by United by putting waiver code 7JCQX in the ticket designator box or OSI field.

For original scheduled travel occurring to, from, or through impacted cities between November 6, 2012 – November 8, 2012, applicable change fee(s) and add/collects(s) will be waived under the following conditions:

When rescheduled travel originates between November 6 – November 15, 2012:
Travel must be to the same cities previously ticketed
Travel may be rescheduled in any booking class within the same cabin
Min/max stay requirements must be met for wholly rescheduled travel

When rescheduled travel originates after November 15, 2012 (through the validity dates of the ticket):
Change fee will be waived but a change in fare my apply.
New itinerary can be any origin or destination
Any class of service
New fare rules apply

Refunds
Travel agencies may process refunds on tickets they have issued to the original form of payment by including waiver code 7JCQX in an OSI field or the ticket designator box to authorize self-refund of the ticket. Policies also apply to consolidator, internet tickets, and Mileage Plus® award tickets.

ceases to amaze me why airlines offer any refund at all. They should just offer a change of date/time fee with an expiry date, cheaper if done online.
Don’t think there’s an airline anywhere that’s a good investment. They need to increase their profits drastically.

I think its more like she bought the item from the store, exchanged it later for another item and had to pay more, then the first item went on sale after she exchanged it and she wants the difference back.

Actually they started naming them this year. The name of the Nor’easter was Athena

I had been wondering how you fared with Sandy and am glad that you and your family are well.

Thanks Jeanne. I wonder how your son is after Sandy? Doesn’t he live somewhere in Queens? My office mates who live in Queens did not lose power and live far enough from the Sound so all they got was minor wind damage. For us who are lucky enough to have trees in our lawn, they became liabilities with the strong winds. I got to tell you, no power for about 6 days is no joke especially if you need well water and heat. I learned a lot. You better plan ahead or you will find nothing in the grocery shelves or gasoline from the station. I have 2 generators but conserving fuel became the issue after the first day. Having a freezer is no good since you end up having to run a generator to save the food from rotting after 2 days. Might as well get everything cooked and use a fridge or cooler. A small generator will run one or two refrigerators but not a freezer (solo).

My son’s friends who stayed in the NYU dorms in Manhattan were having fun the first night. But when the 14th St. substation exploded, they quickly realized they were not going anywhere for a meal soon. By the next day, all their smartphones lost power and they could not recharge them easily without going uptown. Also, many cell towers lost power so it was very difficult to get through. No regrets evacuating both my sons from their schools.

After the 2nd day without power, internet, phones, TV, etc. you begin to freak out and wonder WHEN life will go back to normal. I shouldn’t whine because I know I was the lucky one. Many folks lost their homes. IMO, Sandy was NY NJ CT’s Katrina. I am still exhausted after the Sandy and the subsequent Nor’easter.

PS. I want to thank the linemen from Topeka, Kansas who restrung the high voltage power lines in our community. Our local guys were near worthless and nowhere to be found.

If you don’t buy a refundable ticket…and you cancel, this is what happens. Sorry, I vote no.

If the carrier cancels, the reservation will show HX segments until the TA removes them.

If the passenger cancels, the segments will be removed from the PNR immediately by the TA.
——-

The waivers only make “sense” when they are used or when a ticket is refunded or exchanged. Conceivably, a passenger may do nothing right after the airline cancelled his flights due to Sandy. That does not mean his ticket has become worthless… He might claim his refund much later.

Suppose Orbitz tries to issue a refund or exchange using the waiver code given out by UA for Sandy or the Nor’easter. I wonder if the airline auditor will go back to see if the segments were cancelled (on the reservation) earlier than the date the waiver was released. The ticket coupon will still have the original flight numbers and dates on them so maybe they will only go with that.
Note: I am not an expert in IAR reporting or accounting. Hope Bodega reads this and makes a comment.

I think the fair deal here is No Refund, but give her a free change (no fee/penalty). She also needs to pay any fare difference.

Thanks. I guess it sounded to me like she was canceling her reservation, thus forfeiting the amount she paid (#2). I’m just not clear on why the airline was keeping her ticket fare *plus* an additional $150 cancelation penalty. Of course, there is a distinct possibility that I read the article wrong given my current baby-induced sleep deprivation :)

Although the article’s headline mentioned she wants a refund, the details makes me believe she really wanted to reschedule her important visit to her 97 year old aunt. She could not make her original departure date because of a family emergency.

The first step to exchanging or refunding a ticket is ALWAYS to cancel the existing (underlying) RESERVATION. There is no charge to cancel a reservation (whether it is ticketed or not). When you cancel your ticketed reservation, you are simply removing yourself from the list of passengers on those flights.

Your ticket coupons remain unused. The coupons still have the original flights and dates on them but you are no longer in the reservation system since you cancelled your flights. Any money you have left with the airline is stored in the ticket coupons. If they are unused and not expired, then they may still have value.

You can do 2 important things with the ticket coupon’s residual value:
1) exchange them for a new ticket
2) get a refund to the original form of payment

If you opt to get a new ticket reissued, you will likely pay a CHANGE PENALTY plus the difference in fares before you get the new ticket.

If you opt for a refund, and if it is allowed, you might be charged a CANCELLATION penalty fee. Most non-refundable tickets have stipulations that refunds are given in a form of travel certificate.

If the airline cancels your flight or there is a substantial delay, the airline normally waives the change and cancellation penalties.

It seems that when the OP cancelled her flights, it was before the airlines cancelled the same flights due to Hurricane Sandy. The OP is saying that since her flights got cancelled by the airline anyway, after she had already cancelled, then the change or refund cancellstion penalties should not apply to her.

IMO, she was trying to reuse the ticket for a different date. She was charged the $150 administrative change fee plus the fare difference for the new flight. She is asking Christopher’s help to recoup or REFUND THE CHANGE FEE totaling $300 for 2 passengers because she believes she did not have to pay it since that original flight got cancelled by the airline due to Hurricane Sandy and they were willing to waive penalties for other passengers who were (still) on that flight.

This is one of those rare cases where you’d hope the airline would bend their own rules just a little and not charge a cancellation fee. But then again, you’ve got to understand these airlines are large corporations and bending their rules for very specific cases like this is hard to do. Airlines aren’t exactly raking it in right now, so I can understand their position.

Maybe I haven’t had enough coffee yet today, but I’m confused, and admittedly, not going to read though all 76 comments to try and sift through to get the facts.
Chris, I wish you’d jump in with the facts.
Yes, I understand the “gotcha” mentality of the first cancellation fee for the Oct 30th flight, which is, the OP, Lee, cancelled her flight before UA did, and hence ended up paying a cancellation fee.
BTW, here’s a tip:
The few times I’ve had to cancel a flight, I wait until the very last minute that the airline allows a cancellation (I think a couple of hours B4 the flight) in the hopes that if something goes wrong (weather, mechanics, etc) and the airline cancels it, I’ll get a full refund w/ no cancellation fee. This had worked in my favor twice in years of flying.

However, where I’m confused is that Chris’ post says that UA cancelled the Nov 6th flight. So if UA cancelled her flight, doesn’t she get a 100% refund on the ticket?