Why lying is wrong — even when an airline does it

To the airline apologists who rushed to the defense of an industry that lies by pretending other companies’ products are its own — a clever trick called “codesharing” — I have just one thing to say: meet Lisa Waters.

She had booked a roundtrip flight on American Airlines from New York to London. At least that’s what she thought.

Turns out the flight was operated by American’s codeshare partner, British Airways. Waters claims she paid $120 for “preferred” seats, which on the AA.com site, looked pretty decent.

“Then we got on the plane,” she says. “These preferred seats were behind the wall of a toilet. So for nine long hours we heard flushing, door opening and closing, people standing in line to get to the one of only two bathrooms in coach. I could not even sleep.”

On the American Airlines website, it didn’t note the toilets. But on the British Airways site, she says, they were clearly highlighted, and she would have never paid extra for the seats.

That’s one of the many perils of airline codesharing, which I called bald-faced lie in my last column. Many of you disagreed, saying codesharing allowed you to fly to more destinations, collect more award miles, and get better service.

Each of those arguments is provably wrong.

But before I get to that proof, let me tell you what happened to Waters when she complained. She figured that since some of the “benefits” of the AA preferred seat gotten lost in translation, the airline would be eager to refund the $120 she’d paid.

She sent a brief, cordial email to the airline.

“While many customers have found this service to be a convenient option, we know that each of our customers value different parts of the overall travel experience, and all of our Your Choice travel services are optional,” it replied. “This allows us to keep our fares low, while offering the individual products and services that our customers value.”

American refused to refund the fee.

“I feel deceived,” she said.

The codeshare confusion she describes is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things. In fact, Waters may have simply misunderstood the preferred seating option on her airline’s site. (I found it difficult to duplicate her problem online, but even so, she shouldn’t have been so easily confused, at least the way she describes it.)

It gets more interesting when baggage is lost and codeshare partners start to play the blame game, referring the complaint to each other until the passengers gives up in disgust. It’s also problematic when each airline “partner” has different luggage allowances or ticket rules, and chooses to apply them to its own advantage.

It’s relatively easy to get lost in a “no-man’s land” between codeshare partners, where no airlines are willing to take responsibility for anything. (Think I’m kidding? I’m handling a nightmare case right now involving three codeshare partners and a missing refund. No one is willing to pay up. Talk about a wild goose chase.)

Before I end my rant on the evils of codesharing, let me address a few of the myths that I found in the comments of my previous story on the subject.

Myth: Codesharing gives you access to more destinations.

Fact: No it doesn’t. The airline you’re booking a ticket with is still flying to the same number of cities. Its codeshare “partners” are serving the rest and allowing your airline to claim those destinations as its own. That is a lie.

Myth: Codesharing allows you to collect and redeem more award miles.

Fact: Oh really? Try redeeming your hard-earned frequent flier points for a flight and tell me how that goes. Unless you’re super-flexible or have an encyclopedic knowledge of programs and codeshare partnerships, you’re going to feel like a sucker for having bought that argument. It’s worthless scrip.

Myth: Codesharing improves service.

Fact: No it doesn’t. Codesharing allows your airline to offer substandard service and blame a partner airline for its own incompetence.

Bottom line: Lying is wrong, even when airlines do it, and even when they say it’s for the good of their passengers.

Especially when they say it’s for the good of their passengers.

Because see, when governments allows airlines to lie … er, I mean, codeshare, they do something else that passengers hardly notice: They stop competing. Less competition means higher fares, and the only ones who benefit from higher fares are the airlines.

Think about that the next time you book a flight that’s “operated by” a different airline.

  • http://elliott.org Christopher Elliott

    I take a big picture view of loyalty programs. As with any pyramid scheme, you have some people at the top, acting as apologists for the programs. But you have a lot of clueless folks at the bottom, supporting the scam. Ultimately, the only ones to get anything approaching value from loyalty programs are those at the top — and, of course, the companies that offer the programs. I mean, how many of your hard-earned dollars did you spend with a “preferred” airline to get all those miles? How many deals did you turn down? How many mileage runs. Wake up, people!

  • Ann Lamoy

    Or Chris-how about my sister-who lives near Lake Placid NY? The nearest significant hub she can fly out of is either BTV or ALB.

    For example, she is meeting me in Las Vegas next Friday for a 5 day vacation. In order to get there at a decent time, she would have to leave early in the morning. Which means an overnight stay. In addition, there are cost for gas for the 2 hour trip over and back, parking and the ferry. Even if she wasn’t taking an early flight and took a later flight to get into Vegas in the evening, you still have the gas, ferry and parking. So at least another $100 on top of the ticket. Flying out of ALB means about the same expense-if not slightly more.

    When I bought her ticket for her in March (she hates buying anything over the internet), it was actually cheaper to buy a ticket directly out of our local airport-5 miles from her house. Her husband can bring her and drop her off. No extra expense or wear and tear on the car. Code-sharing made this possible.

    Me? I fly out of SEA and gladly pay the parking fee, But I only have a 2 hour flight this time instead of my usual cross country flight when I go back East to visit. But when I do-I too have to code share. Even flying into BTV or ALB. Never had a problem earning miles (or redeeming them) or confusion about it either.

  • Ann Lamoy

    Also if you check in via computer in advance, you can tell what your baggage ripoff fee will be since (at least with Delta since that is the airline I usually fly) they let you prepay it. Although I have an Amex Skymiles card so I get the first checked bag free.

  • BobChi

    It’s mostly credit card and other signup bonuses for me. And I fully agree those are not for everyone – you have to have decent credit and be able to manage credit to do that. Yes, like many other things in life, you need to be smart about how you deal with frequent flyer miles, and undoubtedly some approach the process poorly. First time I’ve been identified as being at the top of a pyramid. On my salary I”m very middle class, but I definitely don’t travel like it. Come to think of it, I was indeed on top of a pyramid earlier this year in Mexico thanks to a free flight!

  • MarkKelling

    Never done a mileage run.
    Never turned down a “Deal.”

    The loyalty programs are not a pyramid. A pyramid requires more and more participants to keep going. The more people there are in a loyalty program water down the availability of benefits which make the program less attractive to those at the top.

    I fly 75000 miles or more every year, so why shouldn’t I belong to an airline plan? I would be spending those dollars anyway, so why not spend them with an airline that gives me something in return that is useful and saves me money? Does this mean I only choose a single airline when I fly? No, absolutely not. I pick the one that works best for what I want to do and if it happens to be the best “deal” at the time then great.

    Where I agree with you on your dislike of loyalty programs is those programs are bad for the infrequent flyers who think they are frequent flyers. They see all the benefits offered and dream they will enjoy them. But if all you fly is one vacation trip and one holiday trip each year, you are not a frequent flyer. Paying an annual fee for a credit card that gets you points for free flights is also not a good plan if you are not an actual frequent flyer. The airlines reserve most of the point redemption seats on the most desirable routes for those at the top. So if all you have are a handful of points/miles but have never flown that airline, you are not going to find a “Free” flight.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    I’ve not heard of joint ventures. How do they differ from a codeshare?

  • Joe_D_Messina

    Funniest post all day! How could anybody down vote it? Maybe it was the other Adam mad his cover was blown?

  • TonyA_says

    Airlines that simply codeshare flights still make decisions independently and compete with each other. While they will map the fare class closely with each other (to prevent customers gaming the system), fares are still set independently of each other (at least that is what they say they do) to comply with US, EU, and other country’s anti-monopoly laws.

    Over time the USA and EU, supposedly in support of Open Skies policies, began to give airline groups waivers or immunity from its anti-monopoly (e,g, collusion, price fixing, etc.) laws. Today you have TransAtlantic Joint Venture Groups for:
    (1) Delta – Air France – KLM (and to some extent with Alitalia)
    (2) United, Lufthansa, and several airlines owned or controlled by Lufthansa Group (i.e. Swiss, Austrian, Brussels Airlines,) and Air Canada (blocked by CA courts)
    (3) American, British Airways and Iberia

    With JVs, the airlines can set the flight schedules (and capacity) so that they mesh together better. They can coordinate pricing more closely, They share sales regardless which airline sells the ticket. In other words, it is as if they operate the TransAtlantic flights TOGETHER. Today the fare from Point A in the USA to Point B in Europe is mostly the same within a JV. (That doesn’t look like competition, that’s more like cooperation or collusion.)

    Usually consumers get a price break when supply is more than demand. If all airlines were competing with each other (instead of cooperating), then there will be a tendency for price to be lower simply because of competition. With JVs, an airline may decide to cancel all its flights to a European destination for winter and transfer all their passengers to its JV European partner. With less overall capacity, and with higher load factors, airlines will not need to lower prices. In fact they might increase prices. Of course with codesharing, the airline that cancelled all its flights will still look like they are flying to that European city because they offer their partner flights coded as if it was their own flights (codesharing).

  • http://www.facebook.com/CarverFarrow Carver Clark Farrow

    Question. I wanted to fly from SFO to Athens, Greece. I booked a single AA ticket that went from SFO –> BOS –>LHR –>Athens. The last segment was operated BA.
    From the customer perspective, what’s the practical difference between Interlining and Code Sharing?
    Also, I used miles to upgrade the entire trip to First Class. I assume I couldn’t do that on an interline.

  • http://www.facebook.com/CarverFarrow Carver Clark Farrow

    Honestly, there are a few trolls who just vote down everything. You could say that water is wet and ice is cold and some troll would give a negative vote.

  • http://twitter.com/airlineroute airlineroute

    Yes, you are missing something. DELTA and KLM are both in Skyteam Alliance and participants in the joint-venture program. If you have DELTA with Precision Air of Tanzania or TAAG Angola, then that’s when the “nightmare” kicks in, especially during the “cost-cutting” era, airlines are abandoning/scrapping interline agreement all over the place.

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  • http://twitter.com/airlineroute airlineroute

    This is what you missed with your example of AA/BA/IB. In this case it’s joint-venture that kills the competition, not codeshare. Key components of joint-venture is coordination of schedules and air fares that has 2 or more carriers doing business as 1 carrier.

    If UA and US gets antri-trust immunity to start joint-venture program covering domestic market (which will not happen), the example of OMA NYC fare wouldn’t exist because UA and US would price exactly the same fare.

    Looks to me even you got confused with all these interline, codeshare, joint-venture.

  • TonyA_says

    Read closely. TOOL …

  • TonyA_says

    The sample end points used by Linda were DTW and NBO (via LON).
    I can’t see how Precision AIr (PW) can get inserted in the picture when there was no stop intended for Dar es Salaam, Tanzania (DAR).
    No nightmares required for this rather simple route DTW-AMS-NBO.

  • TonyA_says

    Carver, before I answer, is there any reason why you must route via BOS. Why not fly direct to LHR on an AA codeshare or at least via an AA HUB in the USA.

  • TowerRat

    And THAT’S the problem….. I booked with Delta, 1st Leg was on American EAGLE, now I’ve got to figure out if that’s American Airlines, or just another name for a connection carrier. As a 1st Class passenger on Delta (the 2nd leg) I would check in with 3 bags up to 70 lbs for no fee. Since I ended up at American’s check-in, I pay for all 3 bag, and overweights on 2 of them (65lbs ea). 1st bag-$25, 2nd-$35, 3rd-$150, 2 over 50lbs – $100 ea….. a total of $410!

    After facing that I went back to the Delta counter, some conversation later they switched me to a flight out of SFO, and even paid for the transportation around the bay (yes, I have status and they like me).

    And @TonyA, as I pointed out, I am not new at this, IF it had said “Operated by American Airlines” I would have known all of this, it said American Eagle, just as we often see “Operated by Skywest” an operator that flies for multiple airlines, when under United’s flights, they follow United’s rules, under Delta, Delta’s rules.

  • TowerRat

    Did you just try to apply LOGIC to air travel???? Thank you, I can now go about my day with a smile on my face. (oh, and btw, I love the ideas.)

  • http://twitter.com/airlineroute airlineroute

    I did. But my “latest conclusion” is you’re comparing apples and oranges.

  • http://twitter.com/airlineroute airlineroute

    Again you are missing the point that not everyone’s itinerary is going to be as simple as straight forward DTW AMS NBO. Especially these days GDS or come up with combinations that 2 airlines don’t work with one another.

  • TonyA_says

    To “perfect” a JV, the airline must still convince the pax they are buying into the same “airline”. That’s where codesharing is used as a tool.

  • TonyA_says

    Give me a sample of what your GDS (whatever it is you are using) comes up with that has no ticketing and baggage agreement (for the airlines) for DTW-NBO. That is the context of Linda’s example.

    I don’t believe that GDS will put together flights on airlines without interline ticket and baggage agreements UNLESS YOU FORCE IT TO (i.e. Manual Segment Sell). Mine won’t.

  • http://www.facebook.com/CarverFarrow Carver Clark Farrow

    Remember, you asked… ;)

    I simplified the factal scenario for brevity so its not completely accurate. My initial trip was SFO –> LHR. I had a $400 credit voucher on AA. More Importantly, I was executive platinum with American Airlines. That meant I could purchase a cheap $450 round trip ticket and use an electronic upgrade (e-vip) to fly business class for no additional money and no additional taxes. But the e-vip was only good on American metal, not on code shares.

    Also, it was my first international flight and I wasn’t about to sit in a seat for 8, 10 or more hours. Boston to LHR was about six hours.

    The JFK -> LHR route is chock full of business travelers hence limiting availability and I try to avoid flying through O’Hare because of its delays. At the time, Boston was a hidden gem for AA. It’s a major city with many flights to other major cities around the world, but for a variety of reasons doesn’t attract as many frequent business travelers as some other cities and hence tended to have much greater award availability.

  • Jeanne_in_NE

    Wow! Disqus wasn’t behaving yesterday (on my computer), so I didn’t get to see your answer to me. Thank you for such a complete explanation. I saw a lot of what I’ve actually experienced in your answer.
    Weasel-like use of the phrase or not, it still seems like codesharing is how I get out of Omaha when I fly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=567490502 Barry Moss

    I’ve never had a problem determining which airline I’m actually flying on when purchasing a code share ticket. The information is usually pretty transparent and it’s certainly not a lie. In fact, I would be concerned that you’re treading very close to liable territory there. There are other problems like different luggage policies, not being able to determine how many if any frequent flyer miles you’ll get for the code share, but offering code shares is not in and of itself deceptive.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=567490502 Barry Moss

    Chris, I got most of my points from credit cards as opposed to actually flying. I never made a mileage run. I did get to take a flight from Vancouver to London last year in AC Executive First (not a true first class, but better than most business class seats), something I could never afford just paying cash. Similarly, I’ve got tickets for a trip to Australia next year in executive first. And I grabbed first class tickets on Alaska last year for YVR to LAX for myself and a friend.

  • TonyA_says

    @facebook-1284012132:disqus

    Sorry to give you an essay for an answer. But I think it is a good idea for you to see what a Travel Agent does to game codeshare flights vis-a-vis Fares Basis and rules to come up with the cheapest ticket.

    Suppose you simply want to buy a roundtrip economy class ticket SFO-ATH
    (01NOV-14NOV) on AA or BA. Which one (AA or BA) will be cheaper?

    Let’s start by comparing BASE fares. Note that they are exactly the same.
    SFOATH NLX FARES FOR TRVL 01NOV12 AND TKTG 12SEP
    LN A/L F.B.C. USD OW RT EFF LTK AP MIN/MAX
    1 BA E OLX7Q2Z1 375.00 30AUG12 11OCT12 ## SUN/180
    2 AA E OLX7Q2Z1 375.00 30AUG12 11OCT12 ## SUN/180
    3 BA E QLX7Q2Z1 455.00 30AUG12 11OCT12 ## SUN/180
    4 AA E QLX7Q2Z1 455.00 30AUG12 11OCT12 ## SUN/180
    5 BA E NLXE2NA 551.00 6SEP12 – ## SUN/12M
    7 BA E SLXE2NA 651.00 6SEP12 – ## SUN/12M
    8 AA E SLXE2NA 651.00 6SEP12 – ## SUN/12M
    9 BA E VLXE2NA 751.00 6SEP12 – ## SUN/12M
    10 AA E VLXE2NA 751.00 6SEP12 – ## SUN/12M
    11 BA E LLXE2NA 851.00 6SEP12 – ## SUN/12M
    12 AA E LLXE2NA 851.00 6SEP12 – ## SUN/12M

    This (same fares) is what to expect from 2 airlines on a TransAtlantic Joint
    Venture. So let’s proceed to make real itineraries.

    The cheapest ticket I could do with AA costs $1256.50

    1 AA 892N 01NOV TH SFOORD 1050A 505P/O $ J05 E
    2 AA 86N 01NOV TH ORDLHR 705P 745A#1/X $ J05 E
    3*AA6324S 02NOV FR LHRATH 1220P 600P/O $ E
    4*AA6323N 14NOV WE ATHLHR 900A 1105A/O $ J03 E
    5*AA6190N 14NOV WE LHRSFO 230P 525P/O $ J03 E

    * PRICING RULES VALIDATING CARRIER DEFAULT AA
    TICKET BASE USD TX/FEE USD TKT TTL USD
    ADT01 551.00 705.50 1256.50
    *AS BOOKED
    LOWEST FARE ALREADY BOOKED IN THIS COMPARTMENT
    FBC ADT NLXE2NA

    Note that the flights to London is via ORD.

    If I want to fly direct to London on AA then the ticket price increases to
    $1349.50.

    1*AA6187V 01NOV TH SFOLHR 520P 1035A#1/O $ J02 E
    2*AA6324V 02NOV FR LHRATH 1220P 600P/X $ J02 E
    3*AA6323N 14NOV WE ATHLHR 900A 1105A/O $ J01 E
    4*AA6190N 14NOV WE LHRSFO 230P 525P/X $ J01 E

    * PRICING RULES VALIDATING CARRIER DEFAULT AA
    TICKET BASE USD TX/FEE USD TKT TTL USD
    ADT01 651.00 698.50 1349.50
    *AS BOOKED
    LOWEST FARE ALREADY BOOKED IN THIS COMPARTMENT
    FBC ADT VLXE2NA*NLXE2NA

    Note that this $1349.50 is composed completely of codeshared BA flights.

    But what if you simply bought the same flights from BA, would it be cheaper?
    The answer is YES. The same flights would only cost you $1211.50

    1 BA 284S 01NOV TH SFOLHR 520P 1035A#1/O $ E
    2 BA 632S 02NOV FR LHRATH 1220P 600P/X $ E
    3 BA 631S 14NOV WE ATHLHR 900A 1105A/O $ E
    4 BA 287O 14NOV WE LHRSFO 230P 525P/O $ E

    * PRICING RULES VALIDATING CARRIER DEFAULT BA
    TICKET BASE USD TX/FEE USD TKT TTL USD
    ADT01 513.00 698.50 1211.50
    *AS BOOKED
    LOWEST FARE ALREADY BOOKED IN THIS COMPARTMENT
    FBC ADT SLXE2NA*OLX7Q2Z1

    So why were the AA codeshare flights more expensive if the BASE fares were
    exactly the same for the two airlines?

    It has to do with seat availability on the SAME flights.

    Look at the availability for SFO-LHR on the 1st of Nov.

    CARRIER* 01NOV-TH-5P SFOLHR(QSFLON)PT **
    1*O#BA 284 F7 A2 J9 C9 D9 R. I. W9 SFOLHR 520P1035A#1 744 0E
    E. T. Y9 B9 H9 K9 M9 L9 V9 S4 N. Q. O. G0
    2*O#AA6187 F3 A2 J7 R7 D7 I0 Y7 W2 SFOLHR 520P1035A#1 744 0E
    B7 H7 K7 M7 L7 V1 G0 S0 N0 Q0 O0
    AA6187 OPERATED BY BRITISH AIRWAYS

    BA has 4 (or more) seats left of “S” class. AA has none in S class. The
    cheapest seat on AA will be on V class (1 seat left). Unless you have dying
    desire to buy an AA ticket for a BA-operated flight then you will simply obey
    your wallet and buy a BA ticket.

    Now let’s do little massaging on the AA ticket to take the price down a bit.

    1*AA6187V 01NOV TH SFOLHR 520P 1035A#1/O $ J01 E
    2*AA6324V 02NOV FR LHRATH 1220P 600P/O $ J01 E
    3 BA 631S 14NOV WE ATHLHR 900A 1105A/O $ E
    4*AA6190O 14NOV WE LHRSFO 230P 525P/O $ E

    * PRICING RULES VALIDATING CARRIER DEFAULT AA
    TICKET BASE USD TX/FEE USD TKT TTL USD
    ADT01 563.00 698.50 1261.50
    *AS BOOKED
    LOWEST FARE ALREADY BOOKED IN THIS COMPARTMENT
    FBC ADT VLXE2NA*OLX7Q2Z1

    Note by simply changing the AA codeshared ATH-LHR flight AA6323 to the actual BA flight number, we are able to use a cheaper AA flight from LHR-SFO.
    Why?

    Because AA uses strict married segment logic for its flights. Since the lowest
    available class of AA6323 is N class then that forces one to get N class on
    AA6190 even if there are cheaper class seats available. By replacing the
    ATH-LHR with the BA flight number, then no married segment logic exists. We
    are free the buy the cheapest class available (O) on AA6190.

    So, if you still are a loyal AA fan, you can buy the same BA flights on an AA
    ticket for $1261.50 or 50 bucks more than you would pay BA. This is one case where buying a codeshare costs more.

  • http://www.facebook.com/CarverFarrow Carver Clark Farrow

    I’m trying to understand married logic. Keeping it simple. If I book a flight from SFO –> RDU with connection in DFW. Are you saying that both segments must be in the same class?

  • TonyA_says

    The “simple” definition of married segment logic is that airlines require that flight availability be displayed AND sold only on a complete (original) ORIGIN to (final) DESTINATION (O&D) basis.

    So if the origin is SFO and the (final) destination is RDU, the travel agent must request flight availability as SFO-RDU and not SFO-DFW plus DFW-RDU separately.

    In addition, the travel agent should sell the complete leg and not just individual or partial segments from the O&D availability display. So if I display SFO-RDU I must sell all the segments that make the SFO-RDU journey. I may not pick only the SFO-DFW segment or the DFW-RDU segment on a SFO-RDU O&D display.

    These rules also apply to CANCEL & REBOOK meaning if I had previously created an itinerary based on a married-segment (logic), I may not cancel and rebook one or more of the segments of a married segment without going back and requesting new availability for the whole O&D leg.

    Originally, married segment logic did NOT include codeshared flights, but they do now. See the example I gave about the SFO-ATH roundtrip itinerary with all flight segments are on AA codeshares. Note that both legs were married segments (identified by J01 and J02 codes at the end of the flight descriptions).

    As far as booking class(es) are concerned, you can always sell different classes on each segment even on a married segment logic availability display (for as long as there are available seats on the booking class). However, during autopricing of your itinerary, the fare basis (and its rules) will come in play. Obviously, you must sell the correct booking class that will lead to the LOWEST PRICE (or your client will fire you). Note: There is nothing stopping you from buying Business Class for SFO-DFW and Coach Class for DFW-RDU.

    I need to explain that travel agents use a process that is BACKWARDS compared to the general’s public search process.

    Travel Agent Process (using GDS):
    (1) Display Base Fares and Rules for Origin & Destination pair on Leave (and Return) dates (aka season). Note the cheapest airline fares and their Booking Class hierarchy.
    (2) Search Flight Availability and sell them at the lowest available booking class.
    (3) Autoprice the itinerary and get the TOTAL TICKET PRICE.

    Consumer Process:
    (1) Go to search site, enter Origin and Destination and travel dates, look at TOTAL TICKET PRICE. Done.
    Married Segment Logic is irrelevant to you since you assume the vending machine (or search engine) you used already took it into consideration before they offered you the flights that you can buy.

    Consumers really only see and care about the END PRODUCT. What they don’t (or need to) understand is how the system came up with the TOTAL PRICE. Most consumers never read the rules that come with the fares. All they want to do is get to their destination at the cheapest or low price. But people need to realize that if you D-I-Y your travel planning and ticket purchase, you have become your own travel agent and you must be responsible for your own “work”.

  • http://twitter.com/airlineroute airlineroute

    @TonyA_says:disqus

    1) I’m not specifically using DTW – NBO as my example. I’m just pointing out the issue in general.

    2) The GDS won’t put together flights if you grab seat from the individual carrier’s inventory (Direct Access or whatever they called it depends on the GDS). But there are times that a traveler’s trip isn’t just straight forward point A to B involving 2 or more carriers that has interline agreement.

  • http://twitter.com/airlineroute airlineroute

    @TonyA_says:disqus True, but you don’t necessary have to have codeshare under JV, especially intra-Asia and intra-Europe segments.

  • TonyA_says

    My GDS reports that LH says they have NO eticket agreement with EY.
    >4G/TA*LH-EY-E
    NO ELECTRONIC INTERLINE TICKET AGREEMENT *LH-EY

    That said my GDS will NOT DISPLAY an LH operated flight connecting to an EY flight for IAD-AUH.

    However my GDS will display an LH codeshare flight connecting to an EY flight if the operating carrier (i.e. UA) has an interline agreement with EY.

    My GDS also reports that EY says they DO have an interline agreement with LH. Therefore my GDS will display EY flights that connect to a LH operated flight.
    >4G/TA*EY-LH-E
    ELECTRONIC INTERLINE CARRIER AGREEMENT VERIFIED
    *EY/LH

    But anyone selling airline tickets know the above is IRRELEVANT for 2 reasons.

    (1) Even if you succeed in selling LH codeshared flight segments into an itinerary (that have EY connecting flights), as soon as you AUTOPRICE the itinerary, the warning appears:
    TICKETING AGREEMENT DOES NOT EXIST
    LH-EY
    Many travel agents will not proceed further if they cannot issue etickets.

    (2) If you look at the Published Fares (filed with ATPCO)
    by Lufthansa (or even United) from IAD-AUH, all their fares that do not allow MPM routing requires Route # 407.
    Route 407 does NOT allow routing from IAH-AUH using EY on any segment. For LH and UA, MPM routing without Flight Restrictions are only allowed on Full Fare Basis Y and above.
    In other words, even if the Travel Agent is asleep and does not read the WARNING, I don’t think many customers will be willing to pay around $6k for coach on that route.

    The THEORETICAL discussions on codeshares and its imagined or hypothetical effects can go on and on. But the practical effects of codeshares are mainly felt by passengers, travel agents and airline desk agents who have to deal with it day in day out.

    So far the most positive remarks I have read hear is that codeshares allow travelers to earn and use their FF Miles better. It’s hard to argue with that.

    As a travel agent, I find that codeshares just makes my job harder.

  • TonyA_says

    I sell the AA/JL and UA/NH JVs since ASIA is my specialty. Most of my clients (especially Asian-Americans) know how lousy the U.S. airlines are so they insist on taking the Asian carrier’s real flights. IMO, the TransPac JVs really only affect USJPN market from a practical perspective. With or Without Open Skies for the rest of Asia, most US carriers are largely irrelevant over there. In fact, we do have customers (in the East Coast) who will rather fly EK/EY/QR via the Middle East to SE Asia than take a U.S. Airline over the Pacific. Beyond Tokyo, the remnants of Northwest is still our only real player.

    Another thing worth mentioning is that it looks like there is REAL PRICE competition between airlines (and within alliances) if you compare fares to most of Asia. If you take a simple look at US to Europe fares there’s almost no difference between the 3 JV’s fares. To me, it’s smells like collusion.

  • http://twitter.com/DonNadeau Don Nadeau

    Actually, in very many cases, you don’t need to book with United, for example, or use code share flights in order to receive United frequent flyer points. For example, I can book an all Air Canada itinerary with Air Canada and still receive United points.

    Conversely, booking an itinerary to Timbuktu with United won’t earn you United points if the connecting airline is not a participant in United’s frequent flyer program.

    As far as I know, the SINGLE advantage of code share flights is that airlines tend to move gates of connecting flights closer, when an airport design and gate availability permits. For example, at LAX Alaska moved all of its flights to the two Delta concourses because these airlines code share so frequently.

  • http://www.facebook.com/BarryMichaelGraham Barry Graham

    I am sorry, I rarely disagree with you Chris but on this one I do. It’s not lying, and it does give more choice. Also it’s done in other businesses too, such as my own industry (called OEMing)