Victim of seatback police: “It felt like we had somehow landed in a World War II movie”

November 9, 2009

seats Beware of the airline seatback cops. They recently nabbed Cheryl Smith, and they could be coming for you.

What do these airborne officers want from you? Your total obedience, and an empty seat pocket in front of you. More or less.

Never mind that what they’re asking for makes no sense, whatsoever.

Here’s what happened to Smith:

The flight attendant made a huge deal of us not only not having anything in our laps, behind out feet, or in our hands, but also nothing in the seat back pockets.

She said that the only purpose of the seat back pockets was for the American Airlines magazine and the emergency safety card. She went up and down the aisle three times, making people take items out of the seat back pockets before giving the all-clear to take off.

One gentleman, a few seats away from me, had a water in his pocket (he did not have great English and couldn’t understand her). She finally went up to him and told him that this was “his last warning to remove the item from the seat back pocket.”

I want to know when exactly they declared that putting your water bottle, apple, book, or Sudoku game in the seat back pocket was a national security issue? Is this just another way for the airline to force us to pay for food? Have SkyMall sales slipped that far? What is going on here?

You want to know what’s happening?

Well, my colleague Charlie Leocha over at the Consumer Travel Alliance has done a little investigating, as have other bloggers. As far as we can tell, this is all our fault — and by us, I mean journalists. One of our own, on a very slow news day last summer, decided to write a story that led people to believe the seat pockets had to remain empty, and that it was a hard-and-fast government rule.

In fact, it was apparently an FAA “guidance” but not a regulation. But this gave flight attendants all of the excuse they needed to empty the seat pockets of everything but the emergency safety card and the in-flight magazine.

But let’s think about this for a minute. If I slide a MacBook Air into my seat pocket, which is smaller than the in-flight magazine, how is that going to make the flight any more dangerous?

You don’t have to be an aviation safety expert to see that the implementation of this “advisory” is something of a joke.

But to the attendant on Smith’s flight, it was no laughing matter.

“It felt like we had somehow landed in a World War II movie,” she says. “We were all, of course, afraid to challenge her because that might get us thrown off.”

I think it’s time the FAA clarifies its “advisory.”

And maybe we need a new rule for travel writers: When there’s nothing to say, don’t say anything at all.

(Photo: Johnny Vulkan/Flickr Creative Commons)

Jenny

What airline was Cheryl on and did she send a letter to the company after her flight? It would be interesting to learn what this particular airline’s policy currently states about the back seat pocket.
Lisa S

Would it have been reasonable to call the airline at the time that this was taking place? It is ridiculous that consumers are being held hostage and treated like prisoners on board aircraft.
http://aol barbie45

I think it was foolish of the fa to be so demanding. However They are the bosses.Except for writing a letter or e-mailing there is not much we can do.
LeeAnne

@Lisa S: while it might seem like a reasonable idea to call the airline and get clarification on a rule while this drama was playing out, it could actually lead to getting tossed off the plane.

In fact, as frustrating as it is, the realities of air travel today are that ANYTHING that we do that could possibly cause conflict with a flight attendant, no matter how silly it might seem, could result in getting tossed off the plane.

You are correct, it IS rediculous that we are being held hostage. But the fact is that we are.

Flight attendants hold all the power on an aircraft. We all know that power corrupts – even miniscule amounts that only last for a short period of time. And human beings being what we are, some can’t seem to handle even the smallest amounts of it without getting corrupted. They get a little power, and they play it up for all it’s worth. Especially when they get power over people who otherwise might usually have power over THEM (e.g. corporate executives, wealthy people, etc.).

In air travel, you see this in two different realms: at the security points (TSA agents) and on the plane (flight attendants). They have total control over us – we must do exactly what they say, and any conflict whatsoever can result in you losing your trip. Or worse. Just ask the pregnant woman whose husband objected to a TSA agent touching his pregnant wife’s tender breasts during a search — he ended up getting arrested! http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/monahan1.html

Or the young man that I myself saw getting tossed off our plane moments before we were supposed to take off, because he’d gotten irritated at a rude flight attendant, and muttured a “bad word” under his breath. She actually called the airport cops and had him thrown off the plane for saying a bad word – to his girlfriend! (He hadn’t even said it to the flight attendant.) The worst part was she hadn’t heard the man correctly – while he did say something mildly unflattering, he hadn’t even said the word she THOUGHT he said! And when I tried to stand up for him (I didn’t know him, but I’d heard the exchange and knew that he didn’t deserve to be tossed off the plane), she actually threatened ME with ejection!

I know that not all flight attendants, or TSA agents, are power-hungry masochists bent on taking out their life frustrations on the poor shmucks they have power over. But the problem with the current system is that those that are (and there are some!) are given free reighn to act as unreasonably, irrationally, and overbearing as they want…and we passengers have no recourse. It’s your word against theirs – and they have the backing of the airline industry, because THEY are supposed to be responsible for our SAFETY.

The lesson is to recognize that while you are on an aircraft, you do not have the same rights as you do out in the “real world”. You are a hostage. Accept it. If you want to get to your destination, do what they say, no matter how rediculous or unreasonable it might seem. Say “Yes Ma’am” and Yes Sir” and just be compliant. Or else!
Eric Smith

I would hold my tongue until exiting the aircraft. Once I’m at my destination, the FA’s little power trip is over and I’d politely tell her/him how rude and obnoxious they really are.
Chicky

Wow, LeeAnne. I read that link you posted. That is something else. I hope things have gotten a little better since 2002. But this whole seat pocket thing is ridiculous. Like anyone even reads the seat cards, as a rule, anyway. What is the deal?
There are bound to be bad apples in every profession, and looks like Ms. Smith met a prime, grade A example of said bad apple.
A polite e-mail to the head of customer service at American still might not be a bad idea.
Politeness, in fact, should be every traveler’s watchword, especially now. Smile, speak pleasantly and thank the TSA people and flight attendants. Kill ‘em with kindness. Or, as the Bible says, “If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you.”
It’s not easy to do, I’ll admit, but it might save a boatload (or planeload) of trouble and inconvenience.
Ames

Maybe the airline will start to check that the pocket is actually empty when the passengers get on. I rarely put anything in the pocket after pulling out my book covered in the very sticky and gross egg salad sandwich left by the last passenger.
Duke Nukem

Stupid…..just utterly stupid…to have untrained FA’s (by this I mean untrained in how to exercise authority) wield so much power….sounds like the TSA.
http://www.Theflyingpinto.com Sara

Hi, I am the flight attendant that actually wrote to and got an answer from the FAA: http://current.newsweek.com/budgettravel/2009/09/another_mystery_solved_the_sea.html

I was also confused as my airline does not have this rule..thankfully!There still seems to be some confusion, here is the deal,

The FAA mandates Federal Aviation Resgulations (F.A.R.s) to every U.S. airline. F.A.R.s must be followed by every U.S. airline. As a flight attendant we must adhere and inform passengers of the F.A.R.s…if we do not we could accrue personal fines and company fines.

here is where the confusion comes in,

Every U.S. airline also has “company policies” company policies are rules that flight attendants must also adhere to and inform passengers of. Once an airline makes a “company policy” the FAA treats it and enforces it just like an F.A.R. This is why some airlines have different rules sometimes which is exactly what happened with seat back pockets. As you know the FAA came out with a guidance, it was then left up to the individual airlines to make it company policy or not. Soooo, the flight attendants who are enforcing this (silly) rule are required to do so…if they don’t they could be fined and/or terminated. As I said I am grateful that my airline has not made this guidance a company policy, but please remember it is not a power trip when the words come out of a flight attendants mouth, it is required that we “inform” you. Let your defenses down and realize it is our job….or go one step further and adhere to the rules as they’re announced over the P.A. and the flight attendant won’t have to “inform” you;-)

I would also like to say that I love my job, I consider myself a professional, and am kind and helpful to my passengers. I also consider myself an “informer” not an “enforcer” unless of course I feel a passenger is putting someone or our flight in danger. I feel it is too bad when flight attendants are on a power trip…99% of the time it is not needed.
http://aol barbie45

Sara thank you for your information; I appreiate you FA for the most part. You now have to work several flights a day from what I understand. Now with the baggage fees many passengers are attempting to put everything but the kitchen sink in overhead compartments; This is dangerous for everyone especially you; anger over what used to be freebies; is often directed to you. Years ago it was considered a glamerous job. well I guess times have changed.
Allison

I fly American all the time and have never ever heard a flight attendant say “boo” about things in the seatback pockets. I put all kinds of stuff in there during the flight (not a laptop)–books, pens, magazines, etc. I think this was a very very rare occurrence.
c d clark

I have been flying commercial airlines since 1951 both domestic and overseas. I have never come across a “nasty” airline employee, but I admit to never taking anything personally when it comes to what some people call “poor service.”
LeeAnne

@Sara – Thank you very much for clarifying the situation. If I’m reading your post correctly, it is not an FAA regulation, but a guidance; some airlines have elected to make it an enforcable rule, via company policy. That explains the inconsistency across airlines, and it also explains why a flight attendant would be very rigid with enforcement: lack of enforcement could cost a flight attendent his/her job.

What this means to all of us is that we really do need to just accept ALL instructions from flight attendants, even if they are inconsistent with what we’ve experienced on other airlines.

I want to also thank you, Sara, for not getting defensive about the comments in here discussing flight attendant abuses of power. You are correct that the vast majority of flight attendants are like you – doing their job professionally, to the best of their ability. Sadly, we all know that there are those that fall into that 1%. And the current system allows them to exploit that character defect, at our expense, and leaves us with no recourse.

We really can all get along on an aircraft. But it requires effort on EVERYONE’S part – the flight attendants need to perform with the utmost of respect and professionalism, recognizing that air travel today is one of the most unpleasant, uncomfortable, and undignified experiences many of us face in our lives. Passengers need to be respectful of the crew, and accepting of the indignities and discomforts involved in air travel. If those two basic rules of civility are practiced by everyone, we will all get where we need to go with a minimum of hostilities.
Jill

I would hazard a guess that the FA in question was recently disciplined in some way for NOT following this and decided to make her point.
kiki d

i guess i am in the minority in thinking that really this is not that big of a deal. when i step onto a plane, i expect the flight attendants to tell me what to do–that’s their job. just like my job has a lot of stupid rules and “policies”, i am merely the facilitator, whether i agree with the policy or not. some people get all loopy with the fine points, whether that be the guys at the DMV, the coaster, amtrack, police officers, etc. they’re all telling me how exactly to conduct my travel life. i think some expectations are a lot more unreasonable than others, but never have i had anyone just make something up; it was simply their interpretation of the expectations. that doesn’t make them wrong, just stubborn.
Cassivella

Ironically enough, I read this article this morning while I was checking messages on my Blackberry waiting for the cabin door to close.

I had my windbreaker stuffed in the seat pocket, and I got a visit from the seatback police!

Actually, I sort-of understand, as I was seated in an exit row.

But, I do have a problem with people putting things like laptops in the seatback pocket. I’ve been on flights where turbulence has caused the laptop to pop right up out of the pocket. On the occasions I have witnessed, the laptop just kind of popped out onto its owner’s lap, but I could imagine a little bigger bump could send a laptop flying at someone’s head.

Last time I put my laptop in a seatback pocket, it popped up, out, landed on the floor, then it spent the time between 0 and 10,000 feet sliding back and forth about three rows up and back under the seats. That will be the last time I do that!
EricR

I’m curious @Sara, when you see fellow flight attendants abusing their power, do you report them to your supervisor, or just go along with the ride while the passengers suffer? I have not once seen a fellow flight attendant put the kibosh on an abusive FA who is out of line and on a power trip. That makes you ALL culpable in my book.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one day I pick up the newspaper and read about a passenger who finally snapped and completely kicked the crap out of an FA before the pax was able to be restrained. There have definitely been flights on which I’ve sensed the entire plane rooting for one of the passengers to just go nuts and give a certain FA what he/she deserves. Not great for pax safety, and definitely breaking umpteen laws, but the perverse giddy satisfaction of seeing someone put an abusive FA in his/her place might be worth it.

Of course, we’d never see that person again once Homeland Security got their hands on him…

You see this level of discontent in the comments of many of Chris’ stories – people compromising their morals to say emphatically that it’s OK to steal from an airline if you can get away with it, that passengers should proactively open the emergency doors if they’ve sat on the tarmac too long, that if one ever discovered their neighbor was an airline telephone customer service rep that they’d burn down their neighbor’s house, etc.

The TSA and the airlines may think they’re protecting the public with their gestapo policies, but all it’s going to do is make videoconferencing, trains, buses, and staycations that much more popular. And that means less money for airlines. Frankly, I’d like to see them all go out of business so that we’d be forced to create a new business and service model from scratch – one that actually works and doesn’t piss off everyone.
Stimpy

Thanks kiki d for the voice of reason. I completely agree with you. Some people just don’t like to be told what to do regardless of who with authority is saying it. Those seat back pockets were not intended, when first designed, to hold all the items that passengers stuff in there. For some of the planes, they were built in a time before passengers were bringing everything on board but the kitchen sink and even before there were laptops. You can’t fit 10 pounds of sugar in a 5 pound bag.
Kevin M

Here’s my concern: The FAA should not be in the business of *enforcing* individual airlines’ policies that are not government mandates, period. If AA, United, NoNameFlights, or whoever wants to make a policy, based on an “advisory” or not, then let that airline choose to enforce it, without the threat of the FAA, TSA, or whoever getting behind them (other than to confirm that the airline has that power).
Given that the TSA and the FAA have such sweeping power, do we really want them enforcing every picayune little airline rule that Glenn Tilton and his ilk can think up? As many posters have pointed out, why is it safe for the person next to me to have both an in-flight magazine and a big honkin’ Skymall catalog in his seatback pocket, but it’s not safe for me to have the magazine and, say, Newsweek, which is smaller than the catalog? A laptop or other heavy object that could fly out and injure someone? Sure. A magazine? That’s BS.
http://aol barbie45

My feelings are get on the flight and ignore fellow passengers period; follow the fa rules; Most of the time I will back the fa if a person is giving him or her grief; they usually involve a parent busy defending her obnoxious child as in the case of the recent Southwest situation where mother and son were escorted of the plane because the faa flight announcement could not be heard over the screaming child. eighty percent of those surveyed applauded the decision.Now that took guts on the part of the fa. Kudos to her or him.
http://www.Theflyingpinto.com Sara

@LeeAnne, Thank you and yes. You got it, that is exactly what I was saying;-)

@Eric, I have to say I work for an airline that generally doesn’t have an issue of FA abuse. Of course I have seen FAs handle situations differently than I would but where is the line drawn? Passengers who feel they have been wronged have the option to speak with the lead FA, if they don’t find satisfaction from that then they need to contact the airline after their flight. Would I ever watch a FA outright abuse a passenger and not do anything about it? Of course not.

I have been a FA for 17 years and my experiences with passengers and fellow FAs is mostly positive. I would say the score is even on how many passengers I’ve seen “abuse” FAs verses how many FAs I’ve seen “abuse” passengers. My opinion is that it is a personal problem when any human being doesn’t handle a less than desirable situation in a mature adult manner.
David Z

My opinion is that it is a personal problem when any human being doesn’t handle a less than desirable situation in a mature adult manner.

+100
Shirley

I do believe that laptops, other electronics and cans of soda pop should not be in the seat pockets during takeoff/landing as they could become dislodged and pose a serious safety hazard. And actually, if you are trying to stay germ-free, I wouldn’t put anything in the seat pockets myself (people stuff used tissues there!). On the other hand, some flight attendants are power mad and it appears to be the case in this scenario. When will common sense rule?
Keith

As a United flyer, I’ve only run into this twice. Both on one of the United Express regional carriers (Skywest perhaps) – and then she enforced seat back, but not lap and didn’t notice the MP3 player I did stow anyhow. It was just annoying (especially since I was in the bulkhead one time and had no under seat storage).

I was wondering whether it was the carrier or a paranoid relatively novice FA. The more senior FAs on UA mainline have never raised it.
Jo

Kevin M: “Here’s my concern: The FAA should not be in the business of *enforcing* individual airlines’ policies that are not government mandates, period.”

Ahh, wish I could be in your position of not having to deal with government enforcement agencies. I don’t work with the FAA, but do work with other government enforcement agencies (OSHA, MSHA, etc). As assine as it seems, many times when a company puts into effect a “more strignent policy” than what is required under law, the company is required to uphold that policy as if it were law.

I’ve had direct experience with exactly that under MSHA along with some other agencies. Companies can be heavily fined for just violating their own “policy” that does not violate any laws. Understandable, not really. I’ve always kind of seen it as a way to hit companies with fines that normally wouldn’t be hit under law since they are going above and beyond the legal regulations.
bill

Just an anecdote to throw in, don’t have other data, but I think FA’s are often pretty patient and even forbearing. Waiting for takeoff on a DL flite last mo, dozed off. FA comes to my seat and asks me for our (mine and wife’s) board passes, a request which I would, of course consider reasonable, but, while I had every intention of complying, I couldn’t remember immediately where I had put them. I sat there for abt 5-10 sec, not responding, trying to think what this meant (I’d been asleep or nearly when 1st asked) and, more to point, where were they. FA repeated request and I said, “I’m thinking. Don’t interrupt me.” Right abt then, I remembered where I’d put them, and got up to retrieve them. Nothing more happened; she inspected the passes, returned them and went on to other duties, but the tone/manner of my verbal response probably made me seem like the biggest jerk in her sector. I tried especial politesse for the rest of flite to correct what I feared might be her initial impression, but the point, to me, of this was that she acted like a pro, didn’t escalate, and for all I know, may have realized I was a bit sleep-fogged and chalked my response up to that. My experiences with FA’s, and other air crew are pretty similar, really. I would expect that an overbearing act like the one that generated this story/thread is news because it is an exception.

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