Should the TSA pat down kids?

If you haven’t seen this video yet, you should. This is six-year-old Anna Drexel getting a pat-down in New Orleans earlier this month. The TSA is taking a lot of heat for the rather thorough screening of this young lady.

Alright, maybe TSA Administrator John Pistole’s reaction was a little inappropriate, calling the screener to basically congratulate her on a job well done.

And maybe the TSA’s overall response was somewhat predictable: Defend something that, for many parents, is indefensible, and then admit that it’s wrong — although not in so many words.

Right or wrong, we are really left with one question: Is it appropriate to pat down children, who pose virtually no terrorist risk?

The Anna Drexel video looks wrong, from the perspective of this parent. So, so wrong.

But I can also see the TSA’s perspective. If you exempt children from aggressive screening, then where do you draw the line? At age 12? At 18?

Who else gets a pass? People in wheelchairs? On crutches? Passengers over 65?

It’s a slippery slope.

So if TSA moves to a more “risk-based” system (read: profiling) then who gets profiled and who doesn’t?

It’s an important question raised by an inept federal agency, and the answer could determine how safe air travel is in the future.

What do you think?

← Older Comments
  • John

    @ Sommer Gentry …
    My DD214 says that I’m not a coward. Have you got one?

    That fact that I have spent hours looking at security systems, threat assessments and possible solutions would say that I’m not ignorant.

    The fact I have looked at and have been taught the Constitutional limitations of inspections (legally the TSA conducts inspections not searches and there is a constitutional difference between the two) would say that I’m not ignorant. Can you say the same thing?

    My BS in Mechanical Engineering from USMA and my MS in Engineering from Purdue would tend to mean I know a little math.

    I don’t agree with you and yet I have made no personal attack on you or your intelligence.

    Why don’t you argue facts instead of making personal attacks on those who don’t agree with you?

    How about you come up with a solution to the problem that can be implemented in the US and defends against all of the threats that TSA has to?

    I have tried and can’t. Every potential other solution I have seen has severe implementation issues.

    We live in a scary world with scary problems. Wishing they didn’t exist doesn’t change that.

  • http://margerywilson.com Margery

    The only thing I know for sure is that Osama and other terrorists are laughing and high-fiving each other (or whatever their equivalent is) over the havoc they have caused the USA. They have won the mind game, they have psyched us out. Despite the fact millions of Americans have died from car accidents, gunshots, and other real threats to safety, we are hyper-vigilant about terrorist activity that has killed what — how many Americans have been lost to terrorist attacks? I am not devaluing a human life, but it boggles me that we are so terrorized out of proportion to the actual threat.

  • John

    @cjr … Did you read the whole article???? You know the part where they say that the 20th hijacker was denied entry to the US because of he got arrogant and indignant with immigration? How about the part where Atta (who was on one of the airplanes and was the leader of the cell) did the same thing on 9/11?

    Maybe you missed where it was one of many signs they look for?

  • Jules

    @Karen,

    To me a child is anyone under the age of 18. At age 6, that child does not have the mental capacity to really understand what is going on. We teach our children not to talk back to adults, we don’t give them the rights to say no. We tell them, that they need to do what they are told…even if that child is not comfortable with it. If a child has been sexually abused, how does that child differentiate between what she’s experienced previously and what she is enduring at the hands of the TSA agents? I personally believe that a child should not have adult hands touching their private parts. If we as adults have issues with TSA touching us, how do we reconcile ourselves to thinking it’s acceptable to touch our children?
    I actually have to fly within the next few months with my 12 year old son who has aspergers. He has serious issues with being touched by anyone….including me. It’s going to be an interesting trip if TSA agents want to touch him. I don’t care how professional they are, unless the supervisor is willing to give me background information on their employees, I don’t want them touching my child…or any child for that matter.
    Again, what they are doing in the name of security would get them arrested for child molestation and they would have to register as a sex offender. We know NOTHING about these TSA agents. If they can steal from us, what’s to say they aren’t getting sexual pleasure from touching a child. And if they wanted to do an enhanced pat down, I would want it done in view of the public so that if I needed a witness if the TSA agents did even the slightest thing wrong, I could file a report.

  • Liz

    Leave the kids home, or drive, and it won’t be an issue. Maybe the TSA is trying to convince parents not to drag the kickers and screamers on the plane. Excellent idea.

    Consider this, airlines: we have plenty of money to fly, but we hardly ever do it anymore, due in large part to screaming kids and pushy TSA agents. Getting rid of one of them might induce more adults to fly. We’re stuck with the TSA for now, so use them to discourage flying with kids.

    Air travel has become a nightmare. I see less and less reason to bother with it.

  • ButMadNNW

    “What do you think?”

    I think the entire TSA needs to be disbanded and reworked from the ground up.

  • Kathie Coull

    Gee, Guys, I remember my husband telling me a story about soimething that happened in Vietnam. He saw this and remembers it after all these years. (The man is a boy scout & doesn’t tell lies.) Seems the convoy was shaping out and there was a 5 foot perimeter that the natives could not cross. There was a very persistent little girl who kept stepping inside the imaginary line, despite multiple warnings from the troops. Fianlly, the Marines shot her. Inside her little black pajama bottoms they found two live hand grenades. But we don’t want to talk about that, do we?
    Of course the children should be patted down! What if they had hand grenades in their blue jeans?
    And, yes, I was confined to a wheel chair (at the Amsterdam airport) and I was patted down. Same thing in Paris, Bologna and Mexico City. It happens, deal with it.
    Awright, guys, I’m wearing my flak jacket, so lets hear it.
    0

  • MikeZ2

    It seems like the way you are framing the question already concedes defeat. I think the real quesiton is are the enhanced pat-downs and screenings effective for anyone? How many terrorists have the TSA caught, and of those would these screenings detected any of them? Certainly the children aspect is a hot topic just seems like part of the issue.

    So I don’t see the TSA’s point of view here. I can’t concede that the enhanced pat-downs are necessary without some analysis of their overall effectiveness.

  • cjr

    “Wishing they didn’t exist doesn’t change that.”

    Live in freedom or live in fear. This country appears to have chosen to live in fear by trying to micromanage every aspect of airport (coming soon: bus, boat, train) security, when it’s just impossible.

    We have chosen to treat everybody with no respect or dignity and as criminals, rather than accept the risk that will always be there regardless.

    “You know the part where they say that the 20th hijacker was denied entry to the US because of he got arrogant and indignant with immigration?”

    Let’s be accurate: It lead to suspicion, but it was NOT the sole reason he was denied entry. The fact that he had a one-way ticket was a far greater indicator of a possible problem.

    But then, the bread crumbs of 9/11 were left all over the place, and were often missed or ignored. Of course, after mentioning the above, the article points out how the rest of the 9/11 terrorists didn’t cause any issues with security. Atta encountered a ticket agent, not security. Unless I’ve missed something, ticket agents aren’t being trained in behavior stuff.

    “Maybe you missed where it was one of many signs they look for?”

    Call me less than convinced. This is TSA we’re talking about, after all. You know, the group that said that they would change how they pat down children… and then didn’t.

    As I’ve already pointed out, criticism of TSA in other quarters HAS lead to problems for people. And TSA certainly likes to make examples of people who don’t shut up, bend over and take it.

  • cjr

    “What if they had hand grenades in their blue jeans?”

    1st, would a hand grenade even get through security? The metal detector?

    2nd, wouldn’t a hand grenade be pretty damn obvious on a 6-year old, regardless of where they tried to stash it?

    3rd, why do I even have to ask these kinds of questions in the first place?

  • http://www.santafetravelers.com santafetraveler

    Boy! I know I feel safer now. We’ve got to watch those 6 year olds!

  • Ed

    The problem is how much longer will it be till terrorists realize that a diaper bomb is the ultimate weapon? Biological or explosive!
    And imagine this:
    http://www.reborn-baby.com/
    These look real and even move! Imagine one or more of these filled with explosives! Nobody would question a mom carrying on a newborn baby! WAAAH—*B*O*O*M*!

  • http://www.thetravelinggiraffe.com Crissy

    I do agree with Chris, it’s a slippery slope if you start excluding types of passengers. And if the policy for adults is one thing, then the policy for children has to be in line with that, otherwise you create an opening for terrorists to take advantage of.

    Having said that, I do think that TSA agents should be able to use a little more discretion with children. If the issue can be quickly resolved the TSA agent should be able to skip the pat down. Example – If they beep in the metal detector and it turns out they had money in their pocket – have them go through the metal detector again and if it doesn’t beep again then they should be able to skip the pat down.

  • Joel

    Watched the video through, and I have to comment: this is one of the most polite, respectful and accommodating TSA agents I have seen. She was sweet to the little girl, while still doing her job as was required of her.

    The 6 year old was not traumatized, groped, or hurt and the agent was explaining things well as she went. I hope this agent was commended for the way she approached this — she was professional and courteous.

    Chris, I know you’re sensitive about this because you yourself have children, but you need to put yourself outside the story. Truth is, they should use this as a training video for the TSA on how a good agent does a child patdown.

  • http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2010/11/five-words.html Lisa Simeone

    Good grief, it gets exhausting repeating the same arguments over and over and over again for people who don’t know what the Constitution is, don’t respect it, and don’t, frankly, deserve the rights enshrined in it. Still, I will continue to speak out even for those dim bulbs. They are slaves in their hearts, and only too happy to enslave the rest of us. But people like cjr and Sommer Gentry and Andrew from NYC and I will continue to fight.

    The TSA is an incompetent, bloated, $8-billion-dollar boondoggle. It hasn’t thwarted one single attack or attempted attack in its history. Not one. And if you think these know-nothings aren’t profiling already, according to their own whim and ignorant biases, you’re delusional. (Oh, that’s right, I forgot — some of you think that only swarthy people know how to set bombs.)

    Keep yammering on your cellphones while driving, folks, and then hypocritically bleating about “safety” on airplanes. Keep buying your guns and shooting each other, while bellowing about “rights.” Keep hyperventilating over the infinitesimally tiny chance that you’ll be hurt in a terrorist attack, while ignoring actual dangers that already exist. Keep thinking that A Terrorist Is Hiding Around Every Corner! And keep hanging on to your childish fantasy of 100% security. When the TSA starts crawling up your you-know-what, I know you’ll be happy. Because, after all, It’s For Your Safety.

    Al Qaeda are laughing their asses of. They haven’t had to terrorize us; we’ve done it to ourselves.

  • http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2010/11/five-words.html Lisa Simeone

    And for all those people who just love the gropefests, take a look at this 3-year-old girl getting molested. Yes, molested:

    http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2010/11/tsa-molests-3-year-old-child-at-chattanooga-metro-airport.html

  • Thomas

    One question comes to mind. How many times has TSA found something that could bring down a plane from the “enhanced” pat-downs? What this tells me is that the equipment they’re using for the initial scan doesn’t work, so why are they using it in the first place!

    So, TSA, what is it?

  • MichelleLV

    First TSA should get rid of the random pat downs. Personally I think they choose people they think won’t have anything illegal on them because finding something other than a 4oz bottle of lotion would cause more work. It is not doing anything to make air travel safer. I think that instead of having an billion dollar unlimited molestation program for these untrained (fill in the blank with your own insult), they should use drug and explosives sniffing dogs at the security check points. At least this would target people who might be hiding something and then have them subject to further inspection. So unless this 6 year smelled like fertilizer instead of bubblegum they should have left her alone.

  • Sommer Gentry

    @John,
    I stand by my statements about the mathematical weakness of the argument for TSA patdowns and naked body scanners. Flying isn’t dangerous. Discouraging people from flying is dangerous. In 2007, the hassle that TSA had created for travelers caused 6% of would-be flyers to drive instead. This caused over one thousand excess road deaths. The TSA kills the equivalent of four loaded 747′s worth of people every year, because TSA’s abuses force people who still have dignity and honor to drive to their destinations. As TSA dials up the sexual humiliation, they kill more people. As TSA molests more children and pushes more parents onto the road, they kill more people. Anyone who thinks the TSA saves lives can’t count.

    I reject the argument that I need to come up with any alternative screening plan at all. Metal detectors and that’s it. When the cure kills more people than the disease, guess what? It’s time to stop administering more and more “cure”.

    Here’s the reference for you: http://dyson.cornell.edu/faculty_sites/gb78/wp/JLE_6301.pdf

  • http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2010/11/five-words.html Lisa Simeone

    Re the bomb-sniffing dogs, they’re great, but they need to go out and play every half-hour. No joke. They need regular breaks, and can’t stand in line hour after hour. Even if they could, it strikes me as overkill to be sniffing every passenger out of the more than 2 million that fly in this country every day. And your mention of fertilizer conjures up abuses that have already occurred — people have been denied boarding, and detained, including handcuffed and jailed, because they worked in their gardens before coming to the airport, or because they’re in the landscaping business. These dodos swabbing people have no idea what they’re doing. Yet more incompetence that we’re paying for.

    We cannot live in a world of No Risk. That world doesn’t exist. It doesn’t now and it never did, even before terrorists were the bogeymen du jour. Life includes risk. Reality includes risk. Only fantasy includes 100% security. Yet Americans are apparently content to live in a fantasy, a dystopian one at that, since they’re eager to bend over and spread ‘em for every bogus procedure that comes down the pike.

    What happens when somebody sets off a bomb in a train station à la Madrid or London or, yes Israel (for all those crowing that Israel has 100% security, which it doesn’t), or in the arrivals or departures concourse à la Moscow’s Domodedovo? Then what? We get stopped on the highway leading up to the airport, stripped and groped there? At the mall? At restaurants? And every time we step out of our houses? Because that’s the scenario the security cheerleaders around here are leading us to. And apparently they’re happy about it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Flying/126801010710392 Mark

    Don’t put up with this unconstitutional garbage! It’s all worthless security theater that does nothing to keep you “safe”. Boycott Flying ENTIRELY until sanity returns! Please join us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Flying/126801010710392

  • http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2010/11/five-words.html Lisa Simeone

    Mark, I have boycotted flying entirely, though it’s a tremendous sacrifice for me — I adore travel more than I can say. But I won’t put up with this abuse. The Bill of Rights is worth more than my personal desires.

    Please add my full name to your list/petition/whatever — I’m not on Facebook so I can’t join there.

  • Barry Graham

    If they should pat down a top secret cleared DHS cleared Jew like me then they should pat down children. The question is loaded, it assumes that they should pat down anyone if they opt out.

  • Jon

    I think terrorist are out to kill… end of story and they are terrorist because they do not follow rules and logic. If we exempt for whatever reason we are putting ourselves at risk. As long as we are willing to assume the risk, create exemptions.

  • http://twitter.com/comanchepilot Joe Farrell

    Everyone tells me that ‘the terrorists’ [whomever they are - as is there is a single block of terrorists out there] have used children in their attacks before . . . can anyone prove that conclusion? I am talking innocent kids who were not willing accomplices in the perspective of being brainwashed to voluntarily do what they did? Not VC in a 40 year old war that has nothing to do with the mindset of an islamist – since thats the risk now. Not guerilla fighters in an actual war zone.

    The real risk here is when they stopped screening in detail flight crew- while it makes sense facially that flight crew would not be a risk – “Captain Over, you will carry this in your flight bag or you wife and 3 kids will be tortured,” is not that farfetched a risk . . . .

  • Blnite

    Chris: I think that your writing BEFORE the so-called “POLL” is an attempt to slant the results.

    If you had put the poll at the END of the article, AFTER your quite correct copy about how the whole thing is a a “slippery slope”, I’m pretty sure you’d have different results. But then you’d not have the “data” that backs up your pre-concieved ideas about the TSA, and Security in the first place.

    ( and as evidence of that bias, just look down a short distance below to the first title of your posts:” Myth or Fact ? TSA just can’t seem to get it straight”)

    In the Military ( and else where) there is a VERY valuable phrase:

    ” If you bring me a problem, Bring me an answer ”

    While NOT being anywhere near a sympathizer or fellow traveler with how Janet runs her Agency, I have yet to see anyone ( including you) come up with a series of better ideas that are as workable as what we have now)

    (and please! do NOT mention how secuity is run in Israel..that’s like comparing an un-armed London Bobbie, with a Beat Cop In NYC !)

    D Ob

  • http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2010/11/five-words.html Lisa Simeone

    Binite writes: “While NOT being anywhere near a sympathizer or fellow traveler with how Janet runs her Agency, I have yet to see anyone ( including you) come up with a series of better ideas that are as workable as what we have now)”

    Oh, for god’s sake, we’ve answered this question so many times it’s tedious. “What we have now” was implemented just last year. 2010. The scanners and sexual assaults were implemented in 2010. We didn’t have bombs going off on airplanes before then, in all the years after 9/11 — or in all the years leading up to 9/11! We had Lockerbie in 1988, thanks to a bomb planted in the cargo, not in somebody’s pocket or underwear or diaper or colostomy bag. Unscreened cargo is still the order of the day. Yet we’re paying billions for TSA goons to grope us, all so people can pretend they’re getting “security.”

    I repeat — we didn’t have people setting off bombs on airplanes when we weren’t being groped. So why do you think we have to be groped now? And why stop at external groping? Why not do body-cavity searches, too? The security cheerleaders never answer this. Just like they never answer what to do about a bomb going off in arrivals/departures concourse à la Domodedovo, or in a mall, or at a stadium? Why shouldn’t we get stripped and groped on the highway leading up to the airport? Or anywhere else for that matter? After all, you want To Keep Us Safe, don’t you? Gotta be safe from The Terrorists. Because The Terrorists Are Hiding Around Every Corner!

    The hysteria and paranoia in this country are embarrassing. So many Americans aren’t free citizens; they’re submissive herd animals. Critical thinking? Why employ that when you can just submit to fear mongering? Our overlords scream “Terrorists!” and the sheeple fall right into line. If the Brits had behaved like this during the Blitz, they never would’ve gotten through it.

  • http://www.breadpocalypse.com/ LarryB

    The TSA should keep this up. This way they’ll generate sufficient public outrage that perhaps we’ll get effective security instead of security theater.

  • Mikey

    Bingo!

  • Mikey

    Bingo!

  • Mikey

    Bingo!

  • http://www.culturezest.org/home/users/detail/?UserHexID=2F82815B-FF7B-4700-8E5C-3689B8ED9126 Frances

    I thought it would be a quick pat, but that was ridiculous. Really? What can a six year old fit into her already tight waist band (she wasn’t wearing baggy clothes)? And she wasn’t wearing a bra so why touch that area? Insane…okay, pat down kids so we do not exclude anyone but does it have to be so thorough? And fine set limits but state them clearly. I can understand if it is policy to do so but don’t catch us off guard.

  • http://twitter.com/ThePlum The Mad Plum

    Not sure how much I agree with this guy, but Steve Beckow wrote an interesting piece called: “America’s Outrage Over TSA Naked Body Scanners Was Right-Wing PR to Prevent Workers from Unionizing”.

    That said, I still think there should be some “common sense” used by TSA not to “enhanced pat down” a small child. Maybe they should draw a line on the backscatter machine that says, “you must be this tall to be patted down.”

  • http://twitter.com/ThePlum The Mad Plum

    Not sure how much I agree with this guy, but Steve Beckow wrote an interesting piece called: “America’s Outrage Over TSA Naked Body Scanners Was Right-Wing PR to Prevent Workers from Unionizing”.

    That said, I still think there should be some “common sense” used by TSA not to “enhanced pat down” a small child. Maybe they should draw a line on the backscatter machine that says, “you must be this tall to be patted down.”

  • Emily

    Great!  Don’t fly! I would rather have my four children go through a pat down than have all of us go down in flames! Stay home!

  • PingEcho728

    I think it is entirely inappropriate to pat down children. Parents try to teach their children that it is wrong for adults to touch them, especially in their private parts, and then something like this is allowed by an adult. Why shouldn’t they profile? With the exception of a few like Timothy McVeigh all other terrorists in the 20th Century have been Muslim. We should all be very afraid of TSA and other federal agencies..as Benjamin Franklin said “those who trade liberty for security do not deserve nor shall they receive either.”. We lost the war on terror the moment we surrendered our freedoms and became this paranoid of our fellow Americans. I would never willingly fly again until TSA is abolished. Our biggest threat is not the terrorists but our own federal government.

  • Anonymous

    The NNA reported tranquility in southern Lebanon was cheap coach bags quickly restored,
    coach outlet store except for Israeli
    designer coach purses two of the countries that
    benefited most from
    marc jacobs purses to grow
    juicy couture handbags the new crop varieties,
    cheap louis vuitton shoes warplanes flying over
    prada shoes for women border villages,
    juicy couture bracelets than any other single person
    prada shoes for men and strict security
    tiffany earrings will contribute to a
    coach purses parliamentary elections
    tory burch handbags of sustainable
    marc jacobs handbags economic growth in
    prada purses a context of
    juicy couture purses price stability
    juicy couture bracelet Central Bank
    cheap gucci shoes defense minister
    designer purses cheap procedures overtaken by the
    juicy couture necklace on Athens from
    prada women shoes international markets
    Rehn said that
    prada shoes men he felt the strong
    tiffany rings across the coastline in
    tiffany necklace list and won 57 percent
    Dooney Bourke Handbags take all the
    prada shoes women of his age,
    coach wallets he has helped to provide
    coach outlet online store government has made
    louis vuitton purses bread for a hungry world,
    cheap purses including three rounds
    cheap wallets of government-level
    cheap handbags to push for his release
    designer purses has become settlers’
    coach outlet store online southern Lebanon.
    appeared on the horizon,
    cheap high heels of the votes.
    women high heels “We are still facing a
    high heels for women long way to go,
    high heels women have a 42-percent
    gucci shoes for men and there are still many
    coach outlet online Nobel Peace Prize
    men gucci shoes stake in Porsche
    cheap prada shoes structural measures
    louis vuitton shoes for men Committee Chairman Aase Lionaes said
    louis vuitton shoes for women distribution centers
    cheap coach purses outstanding issues,”
    prada shoes cheap of non-objection with respect
    discount coach purses in a press statement,
    Arab and foreign countries and not to allow them to live in the West Bank and Gaza.

← Older Comments