Should I split the difference with a hotel over a destroyed sofa?

Luis Ramirez-de-Arellano has a decision to make, and he needs your help. Last fall, after he checked out of the Homewood Suites Philadelphia on City Avenue, he received a surprise $300 charge on his credit card.

He sent a polite email to the property, asking for an explanation.

Here’s what a hotel representative sent him:

Due to the condition of guest suite #1202 and the stains on the sleeper sofa that are not able to be cleaned and now need to be replaced, we had to incur additional cleaning and replacement costs.

The cleaning of this suite was beyond the normal cleaning incurred after a guest checks out. We have applied a $300.00 charge to your Mastercard.

“I was very surprised,” says Ramirez-de-Arellano.

He remembers the couch. It had a “minor” blemish on the cushion when he checked in.

“I flipped cushion over, other side was fine,” he says. “I didn’t even consider it worth mentioning to front desk.”

He believes the couch had been in good condition when he checked out, adding, “I did not believe any reasonable person would think it needed to be replaced.”

A Homewood Suites representative replied to Ramirez-de-Arellano’s appeal, promising to bring this up with a supervisor. Over the next two weeks, he corresponded with the hotel, asking him for documentation of the damage and to itemize the bill. How much of the $300 was a cleaning charge, and how much covered the new sofa?

By the time he contacted me, there was a long chain of emails between Ramirez-de-Arellano and the Homewood Suites property — and no resolution.

Hilton, which owns Homewood Suites, is normally excellent at responding to customer complaints. I suggested Ramirez-de-Arellano send an appeal to one of its executive contacts. Maybe his request had slipped between the cracks during the holidays? But even the higher-ups didn’t reply in a timely manner, so I decided to contact Hilton on his behalf.

A Homewood Suites manager contacted Ramirez-de-Arellano early this year, promising a resolution soon. Almost six months to the day after he had checked out, the hotel offered to refund him $150 — basically, to split the difference on the bill.

“Part of me thinks it’s not worth the hassle to continue the protractive back and forth,” he says. “Another part, however, knows that charging me $150 is still, bogus given that there was no damage to the couch.”

He wants to know what to do — and that’s where you come in.

Part of me says: Something is better than nothing. The hotel could have stuck to its $300 late charge. Clearly, corporate Hilton didn’t care about the outcome of this case, otherwise it would have supported a speedy resolution of Ramirez-de-Arellano’s dispute. Instead, it did nothing when he contacted it.

But another part of me says: This is bogus. Come on, a $300 cleaning bill? If this had been a legitimate charge from a cleaning service, it would be an uneven number. The figure seems to be arbitrary.

Why couldn’t the hotel send him photos of the damage, or at least an itemized bill? By Ramirez-de-Arellano’s account, it did neither.

Should he accept Homewood Suites’ latest offer?

More to the point, I wonder if we now need to begin taking pictures of our rooms before and after check-out, to avoid this kind of late charge.

(Photo: Sumcensuvitt/Flickr)

  • M’ris Berlin

    They can’t even provide him with an itemized receipt for the cleaning, or any sort of account of what the damage was? That’s bunk.

    If he’s going to agree to pay for ANY of these so-called excessive damages, he should at least be able to know what he’s paying for/being penalized for.

    There’s a part of me that thinks this also just sets poor precedent. If the hotel can charge us for excessive damages, without actually telling us what those damages are, what gets to count as “excessive”? And how often will customers be paying for it after-the-fact?

  • LeeAnneClark

    No piccy, no money.  If they can’t show a pic or in any way prove he did it (or even that there is an “it” that got done), then it’s just another scam.  Just like what car rental companies do.

    I’m disappointed.  I thought Hilton was more service-oriented than this.  To just take his money, with no proof, not even a notice until he asked for an explanation, and then leave him hanging for six months – not cool, Hilton.

  • http://dreamtravelblog.wordpress.com/ James in Phnom Penh

    Again, it’s a he said / she said thing. How to disprove a negative? Did the OP spill something and is now denying it? Was it a previous guest and housekeeping is now just noticing? I’d take the $150 offer if the property supplies:

    1) A statement to the effect that the housekeeper who cleaned the room immediately before the OP checked in did not see any stain
    2) A picture of the stain
    3) A bill for the cleaning

    If the property can’t / won’t supply, then they need to eat the bill. The onus is on them to prove it was the OP who caused the damage.

    What’s this world coming to when we have to take before / after photos of our hotel rooms as well as rental cars? SIGH…

  • Jonathan Potter

    I don’t understand why people don’t just file a chargeback in these situations.

  • DavidYoung2

    I’d probably just split it with them.  It’s probably not the ‘right’ thing to do, but your time and effort are worth something.  At some point you are wasting more in time and effort than it’s worth just to ‘clear this one off your plate.’

  • http://twitter.com/ElmoClarity Elmo Clarity

    My thoughts exactly.  Make them prove to MasterCard the charges are legit.  I had an incident with one hotel that tried to charge me for several bottles of booze from the mini-bar, and I don’t even drink!  A quick dispute to the card issuer about this and it was gone since they couldn’t prove I took any item from it.

  • absherlock

    Looks like I may be the first, but I’m thinking the OP isn’t being entirely truthful. He admits to seeing the “blemish” upon check-in and doesn’t feel it’s worth mentioning to housecleaning, but he feels  enough about it to flip the cushion. Further, it’s enough of a “blemish” that he actually remembers it when corresponding with the hotel. 

    Based on this, I think the $150 is a fair compromise.

  • Raven_Altosk

    No picture.
    No bill.
    No proof.

    I say he deserves the whole $300 back and Homewood Suites should be ashamed of itself.

    Question: Was this a franchised property? I’ve found those to be the worst about “discovering alternative revenue streams” in the form of ripping off customers.

  • Raven_Altosk

    No picture.
    No bill.
    No proof.

    I say he deserves the whole $300 back and Homewood Suites should be ashamed of itself.

    Question: Was this a franchised property? I’ve found those to be the worst about “discovering alternative revenue streams” in the form of ripping off customers.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYR4YYOAPY4X3UUYLPCADARF3Q emanon256

    If I were the hotel I, and noticed a stain and could not clean it, I would send a letter with a picture and the bill I incurred as the hotel manager to the last guest to stay in the room, and explain that this money is owed and try to work something out with them.
     
    If I were the OP and just got randomly charged $300, and the hotel did not respond or address it within 30-45 days, I would have simply disputed it with the credit card company, then the hotel has to show proof they should have showed to begin with.
     
    What troubles me is that the OP said there was a stain, so he turned over the cushion.  I think the OP should have mentioned it to the front desk after first noticing it.   I believe that the OP didn’t stain the couch, but I think flipping the cushion made him look guilty to the hotel.  I would have notified the hotel of the stain at the front desk and made sure they wrote something down so that they would know in advance that it wasn’t me who stained the couch.
     
    I feel for the OP, but it sounds like it’s too late to dispute the charge, most of my cards only give me 90 days, some 60.  I would probably accept the $150 and move on, but I would be really upset about it too.

  • http://twitter.com/johntbaker John Baker

    If this was a legit charge, the hotel would be able to document how they came to the $300 amount. They can’t so it isn’t.

  • BillCCC

    Not a lot of information but IMHO the guest stained the couch, flipped the cushion and hoped that the hotel would not notice. They noticed.  In his defence, the hotel did not document any damage and appears to have just made up a number for cleaning the couch. I think a 50/50 split is adequate.

  • Chris_In_NC

    This case is strange. Strange enough to make me wonder what additional facts are missing.

    Regardless, the burden of proof is on the hotel. They should not arbitrarily assess a damage charge without justification of what the charges are for. As others have written, where are the photos? At this point, it doesn’t matter whether the OP caused the stain or not, without documentation or proof, the hotel has no case and should immediately refund the full $300.

    To anyone that suggests a guest should report any and all damage to the front desk immediately upon check-in, I can personally tell you on several occasions the hotel clerk only cares about whether you want to change rooms or not. I have checked into rooms where there was a hole in the wall, broken desk, stains (and I don’t mean little stains) on the carpet, and to date, have never received an invoice billing me for said damage.

    I hate to think that checking into hotels is like picking up a rental car, that the traveler has to inspect and photograph every inch of the room immediately after check-in. I’m not a road warrior but between my wife and I, we stay in 20-40 nights in hotels a year. Call me OCD, but I have a ritual upon check-in, to thoroughly inspect a room and take before and after pictures, documenting anything that seems amiss. Mostly the photos are for online reviews (ie Tripadvisor)

    Doing a thorough room inspection has really opened my eyes (and has shocked me) as to how shoddy the cleaning process of some properties are! Does anyone else always look under the mattress? You may be shocked what is under there! If housekeeping is skimping on cleaning, it often translates to poor customer service, as it reflects on poor management practices.

    One other thing…
    Out of curiosity, is this Homewood Suites a franchise or a corporate owned property?

  • Chris_In_NC

    because (as we’ve seen in other cases), the chargeback is meaningless, if the hotel calls a collections agency on the guest after credit card sides with the cardholder

  • sirwired

    I would have disputed the credit card charge immediately.  Certainly his credit card bank would have demanded more documentation before resolving the dispute in the hotel’s favor.

    Oh well, a little late for that now.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XVJVTRJVWOAXSSPKIHRT7LVHIQ Daniel

    Stains happen do they not? how is this unreasonable cleaning? I can understand charging for unreasonable cleaning after someone has a party or something. But ONE stain shouldn’t be unreasonable cleaning. Stains happen in our homes they should expect them to happen in a hotel. The hotel should be eqiuiped to clean stains without charging extra.

  • vmacd

    What really irks me in this situation is the surprise charge on his credit card. I always ruthlessly check my statement after traveling. I’ve been dinged by hotels several times for charges that were bogus. Once they have your credit card number, they have carte blanche to bill you whatever you want, even after you’ve checked out and agreed upon the “final” bill. If you don’t diligently check your statement, sometimes even months after checking out, you might miss one of these little “surprise” charges. In my book, they should have to call you and get permission before charging your credit card for additional fees.

    I agree with M’ris. If they can’t provide any proof of the service, he shouldn’t pay for it.

  • Elmo Clarity

    Then you just send a drop dead letter to the collection agency.  They would also have to prove the charge is valid if you contest it on your credit report too.

  • Elmo Clarity

    I can relate to “blemishes” on furniture in hotels.  To be honest, it has been common for me to see things like this and I have flipped over several cushions myself.

  • Chasmosaur

    So now we don’t just have to take extensive pictures of our rental cars to make sure pre-existing damage is charged to us, now we have to video the entire hotel room on our way out the door?

  • Steve_in_WI

    If the hotel had provided him with actual documentation of cleaning/replacement costs, I would be more inclined to side with them. The fact that they assessed him a $300 charge with no other documentation (and didn’t even contact him to explain it), along with the fact that they are willing to split the difference, leads me to believe this is bogus. No way did their costs come to $300 even.

    I think this is exactly the type of situation where you contact your credit card issuer and dispute the charge.

    I would be very interested to see exactly what the “blemish” looked like. In my experience, unless you’re checking into a brand-new property, hotel furniture always comes with a little wear and tear. Was this the equivalent of a rental car with a one-inch scratch on the lower bumper, or one with a sizable dent in the door?

  • cjr001

    The onus is on the hotel to provide proof. Without it, this is a fraudulent charge.

  • cjr001

    Yeah, but the credit agencies have shown that they don’t care about errors and mistakes either.

  • BlondieDC

    Are they kidding?  No pictures, no itemized bill?  I would have called my credit card company and had them do a chargeback.  No way would I pay a penny of this and no way would I ever stay at that hotel again!

  • cjr001

    If the stain was there, then it should’ve been noticed by housekeeping when the room was cleaned before the OP entered the room.

    Maybe the hotel should charge the housekeeper the $300 for failure to report something that needed to be cleaned?

  • Steve_in_WI

    That’s a good point. Most hotels I’ve stayed at have specified a penalty charge if “excessive” cleaning is needed, but I’ve never seen one that spelled out what that entailed. The response from Homewood Suites is a bit cryptic; while they mention the sofa specifically, they also talk about the general condition of the suite requiring extra cleaning. I’m not sure exactly what that’s supposed to mean.

  • Kotch11

    I’m of the opinion he should accept the split.  Surely something occured while he was a guest, or he wouldn’t have turned the cushion over to hide it.  Hilton is too honorable to charge without reason

  • jgb123

    And photos when you first arrive of stains that warrant flipping the cushion over, mold in the bathroom or any other anomaly. Sad you can no longer rent a car, room or whatever without documenting it’s condition before & after. 

  • severnwatcher

    Here’s a thought – did he sign anything taking over responsbility for the condition of the room?  (Like you do for rental cars – this may depend on the facility, some do).  No? Then he has no liability, esp. in court.  Since the hotel sends in maids and other persons into the room in question during a guest’s stay, legally there is no way to concretely prove he did it.  (For all we know, the maids could have had a party there and spilled something). It could be housekeeping slacking off, not cleaning the couch properly from another guest or reporting it, until a manager or someone else discovers the damage and demands an explanation. Whatever, there’s too much room for doubt.

    And those criticizing that he should have reported the stain and not just flipped the cushion? Now, maybe he wishes he did, but come on! – when we’re traveling & have things to see and do, who takes the time to do that for a minor thing that can be solved by flipping the cushion?

  • Jeanne_in_NE

    $300 is too round of a number and too high of a number for cleaning a stain.  I have a great carpet cleaner who also cleans furniture.  His minimum charge is $75, which is what he would have charged to come and clean just one item.  If it were just the cushion, the cushion cover could be taken to a dry cleaner. Figure $25 for specialty cleaning and another $25/$50 for time to/from the cleaners. 

    $300 is too low for replacing a sleeper sofa (can’t tell from Homewood’s poorly worded response whether they replaced a cushion or the entire sofa). 

    Maybe they’re charging for down time where the room can’t be rented because the sofa is being cleaned or the sofa/cushion is being replaced? Sounds like a bogus number, all the way around.  As the others have said, no documentation, no justifiable charge.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYR4YYOAPY4X3UUYLPCADARF3Q emanon256

    While I agree with you, I doubt the hotel would charge their own employee when they can get away with charging someone else.  I am guessing the housekeeper missed it before the OP checked in, not sure why, but they do go through the rooms pretty quickly.  So the OP saw it and flipped the cushion, and the housekeep saw it next time while they were vacuuming the cushions.  This is why I always report things.  Every hotel I have been too has some sort of book at the front desk and I make them write it down.  That way they have a record that it wasn’t me.

  • travelagentman

    Refuse it on his credit card in writing providing all of the correspondence between the two. Any legitimate credit card company will reverse the charge. I have found pizza boxes upside down under the bed, proven that the sheets are not changed, that the coffee cups were not washed properly, but I have never heard of this one.

  • philpm

    Hilton is a business like any other, and just about any business has unscrupulous people working for it who will try to make a buck any way they can.  There is nothing honorable about the way the have (not) handled this.

  • lorcha

    The bar to confirm a collection item on your credit report is really low. The CRA will just ask the collection agency to confirm an accounting of the charges, and they will confirm. That’s pretty much the extent of it.

    Your recourse at that point is to bring a FDCPA lawsuit against the collection agency and/or the original creditor. I’m fairly certain that these must be filed in federal court. 

  • lorcha

    There’s probably a $300 “excessive cleaning” charge stipulate in the rental agreement. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Aaron-Gold/1015584383 Aaron Gold

    I would think a strongly worded letter from his lawyer would put this to rest.

  • RITom

    The only way a collection agency and be really used is if they have your SS#  so dont ever give ANYONE YOUR ss#  or give them 999-99-9999

  • judyserienagy

    My dad always said “don’t let the jerks wear you down” and that’s what corporate America counts on.  I know exactly how Luis feels, but every time one of us capitulates because we can’t stand it any more, they win, and they keep gouging people.  I am a Hilton Honors Diamond person and very surprised that they would treat a guest this way.  This is not a “he said, she said” situation, they refuse to show him proof of the damage so they should not collect a penny.

  • RITom

    Sometimes it is worth it to send them a bill for your time. Then charge then a late fee and interest at 18% for the balance due each month.  Then go to small claims court for the whole balance.

  • RITom

    exessive cleaning charge and damage to one item are not the same thing.  Excessive cleaning cover toe nail polish all over the bathroom floor.

  • Sadie_Cee

    IMHO the $300 credit card charge is bogus.  It is the amount of $300 that is extraordinarily suspect.  The hotel claims that there was a need for cleaning beyond the norm and a need for the sleeper sofa to be replaced. The cost of both items would amount to more than $300, even if the extra cleaning plus the reupholstering of the sofa were performed by in-house housekeeping and maintenance staff.  I won’t even mention the unwillingness or inability to provide the OP with an itemized accounting of the charge.
     
    Besides, it is illogical to think that the OP would have spent six months and put so much effort into this dispute if he had damaged the suite.  If he were responsible for the damage, he would have paid up and shut up. 
     
    It would be wonderful if you and the OP could continue to challenge this on a matter of principle, but too much time has been spent already and the likelihood of getting full reimbursement is negligible. 
     
    Nevertheless, the word is out and future hotel guests will not only routinely take dated and timed photographs of deficiencies in the accommodation when they arrive, but will put travel weariness aside and return to the front desk immediately to register a complaint.  In addition, they will insist that the complaint be entered in the system and that someone be sent to view the subject of the complaint.  If that is what it will take to protect ourselves from these spurious after-the-fact charges, we will do it.
     

  • LeeAnneClark

    Problem is, credit card companies don’t always side with YOU.  That’s happened to me twice.  I filed a dispute against a charge from a jewelry store that never even gave me the item that I’d ordered.  I figured it was a no-brainer – plain and simple, they took my money, and gave me nothing.  To this day I don’t know what the jewelry store told the credit card company, but they denied my dispute!  $700 out the window, and nothing to show for it.

    Another time, I disputed a charge from a karate studio where I’d signed a year’s contract for my daughter.  I later took my son for a supposedly “free” session to see if he liked it.  I signed a waiver form (yes I did read it).  He didn’t like it, so I didn’t sign a contract for him.  Lo and behold, monthly charges for him started showing up on my credit card, even though he never went!  Filed a dispute, figured it was open-and-shut – nope.  They ruled against me.  The studio owner claimed the waiver form was a contract (it wasn’t).

    I no longer trust credit card companies to have my back in a dispute, regardless of how inane the charges may seem.

  • pauletteb

    Even if the property sends a photo of the sofa, how would we know it was the sofa from the OP’s room? I doubt they have a different style/color for each room.  And those round $ amounts always make me suspicious.

  • SoBeSparky

    No picture, no pay.  

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/2NZAJ6KPWUWJV23TTE3TNBMJZI Trudi

    After a single dispute one time, I’m now making it a habit to digitally photo places where I’m staying, cars that I rent, and a count of towels, and such. I know the replacement, cleaning, and repair to property is part of the general maintenance. I understand that when something can be damaged to the point that it must be replaced, but I can’t help but wonder how often these costs are inflated. I actually like the hotels that post the costs of their towels; while I don’t think the linens are nearly that valuable, it is at least fair warning that you’re going to get into a financial dispute if you can’t account for them. In our litigious society, everything is about CYA.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    That’s just an urban legend. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    RT

    Unfortunately that’s not close to being true.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

     That’s won’t work

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SYR4YYOAPY4X3UUYLPCADARF3Q emanon256

    Stains don’t just happen, someone causes them.  I have never had a stain spontaneously appear without cause. 
     
    If someone stays in a hotel room and damages it, and they hotel is unable to clean or repair it with their standard equipment, they occur additional expenses.  Why would the hotel NOT go after the persons who caused the damage?   If you lent someone your car and they damaged it and you have to pay to fix it, how would you react if your friend said “Accidents Happen?”
     
    (In no way do I think the hotel should go after someone without a photo and a bill as they did in the Ops case).

  • ExplorationTravMag

    I know I’m coming late to the party but I had to testify in a court hearing this AM so…

    I’m with pretty much the rest of them here, if there’s damage and a repair/cleaning, there should AT LEAST be a bill for the cleaning.  While I realize bills such as these are paid by another office if this is a corporate hotel but certainly copies could be found for the OP.