Should I add involuntary downgrade cases to my “do not mediate” list?

I‘m considering an outright ban on certain cases, and maybe you can help me make a decision. I already have an informal moratorium on recovering missing frequent flier miles and mediating expired-passport problems, although every now and then, I’ll let one slip in.

Walter Miller brings us another kind of trouble today: the involuntary downgrade/insufficient refund conundrum. After I tell you his story, I’ll explain why I think his type of problem may deserve to be blacklisted.

Miller had booked two discounted first-class seats from Philadelphia to Brussels last fall, and after a gate change, the airline gave him some bad news.

We were advised that our 767 aircraft had mechanical problems and that it would be necessary to downsize to a 757.

When I reached the check-in counter, I was advised that my wife’s seat was available but there was no space left on the plane for me in Envoy Class.

Miller ended up flying to Brussels in coach while his wife sat up front. (What a nice guy!) The airline offered him a $100 voucher on the spot, as an apology for sticking him in one of the cheap seats.

He decided to take up the matter of a refund with US Airways when he returned. Having spent $2,361 per ticket, he expected to get at least half the money back. But he didn’t. US Airways refunded him only $160.

Miller appealed the decision, but US Airways wouldn’t be swayed. In an email to him it explained why:

The fare purchased for travel is a discounted first class fare. The standard first class fare for this itinerary was F6.

The amount of your refund was calculated using the pro-rated value of the segment you were seated in coach.

In other words, he was only downgraded for part of his overall itinerary, and in determining the amount of the refund, US Airways calculated the fare difference between the discounted first class seat he had and what appears to be a full-fare coach seat, or something close to it. That difference is minimal.

“I do not think that the refund is fair,” says Miller.

I deal with involuntary downgrades all the time. Here’s a case in September and here’s one from June. They’ve always ended the same way — the airline math prevails and the customer walks away unhappy.

I’m not saying that cases like Miller’s have no merit. Actually, they often do. It’s that the airline position on these involuntary downgrades is clear. They determine how much of a refund you get, and if you don’t like it, tough luck.

Personally, I think some of the airline math is suspect. Try reversing the equation. If I see an empty seat in first class on my international flight and offer to pay a flight attendant $160 (plus a promissory note that I’ll buy a US Airways ticket within a year if I find a good deal) what do you think would happen?

That’s right, the attendant would have a good laugh and send me back to economy class.

So why shouldn’t we have the same reaction when the opposite happens?

I’m happy to keep fighting this, but I doubt the airline industry’s answer, absurd as it may be, is going to change any time soon.

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  • Anonymous

    Keep up helping those who do have a case that are NOT frivolous (like getting ham when they should have known he was Muslim and we should look out for ourselves when it comes to special needs).

    Sometimes, you are the only person who tries and is successful at helping travelers fight the huge airline and hotel industry.

    Why stop doing that?

  • Anonymous

    I certainly understand the dilemma.  Advanced-purchase first class and advanced-purchase economy differ by a lot.  However, I do understand that it can be difficult to calculate the fare difference given that the prices change all the time.

    I’ve booked economy fares separately on the same flight via the same airline online ticketing system.  I’ve seen cases where the price changed the next day or even right after completing a purchase.  It may be difficult to figure out what would have been the equivalent fare because there are often limits on the number of fares available at a certain price.  I’ve seen cases where I’m sure that my purchase was either the last or among the last available at a particular price before the price was bumped up.

  • http://www.talestoldfromtheroad.com Dick Jordan

    If feasible, I’d suggest that you continue to review these situations and, if one seems unusual, or involves particularly egregious behavior on the part of the airline, write about it.

    As a travel writer and blog publisher, I always have more story ideas than I can ever find time to bring to fruition.  I’m sure you find yourself in the same boat/plane/train, editorial-wise. 

    At some point, all news stories become so repetitive that they are no longer “news.”  Downgrading, particularly on part of an itinerary, may be one of those types of stories.

    And as a highly visible travel consumer advocate, you should be focusing your energy and talents on problems that can be solved, not ones that probably are going to continue to plague travelers no matter what you do to attempt to stop them from occurring in the future.

  • Anonymous

    @Christoper Elliott:  I regard these kinds of cases to be outright theft on the part of the airlines.  If knowledgeable TAs like @TonyA can reconstruct an itinerary or a fare (as he has done with other cases), so too can the airlines.  I also realize that being a consumer advocate isn’t profitable and that your time is limited. 

    How about you tell *us* what we can do?  On your TSA article on Saturday, you suggested the power of the ballot box.  What if your loyal readers contacted the agency or organization that could most help in cases such as this?  Heck, Ralph Nader is plenty p-oed at the airlines right now; I’m sure he’d be on board with this.  Tell us who and tell us what rule needs to be targeted.  It’s better than the alternative, which is to sit on our thumbs and do nothing.  Wasn’t that the message of Scammed?

  • Thomas Ralph

    I think the EU law has this one right.

  • Thomas Ralph

    I think the EU law has this one right.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/P7WOA6O5SBZWKVJMI3BKSD2SBE DylanK

    Last month I flew on United from Schiphol airport in Amsterdam, to Dulles. The flight was nearly empty, and the flight attendants announced that you could upgrade from Economy to Economy Plus for “only $175″. If they are charging $175 for 4 inches of extra legroom, than a downgrade from First to Economy should be worth a whole hell of a lot more than $160. 

  • Anonymous

    Jeanne, while a travel agent can easily retrieve the fares that were active (historical fares look back period up to one year); they cannot tell the seat inventory that was available at that time. That said, the passenger must really take a snapshot of what an equivalent economy class ticket would have cost for the same flights at the time they bought the business or first class tickets.

    But I want to point out something else. Airlines make so much money from their first and business class passengers. It makes no sense to screw them. But then again, that is how stupid some airlines can be. The last thing an airline wants is for these high paying customers to leave.

    I wish we have those EU like passenger compensation rules. They will make Chris Elliott’s life a little easier.

  • http://twitter.com/Lonnieclar Lonnie Clar

    By taking that position, the airline could lash you to the wing, and claim it had fully performed, so long as you got from Point A to Point B.

  • Anonymous

    I’m surprised it was only 70/30.  I would have thought “mediate” would have been much higher.

    This is another example of how the airlines will stick it to us, but when the reverse happens they always make it to their favor. In other words, “stick it to us again”.

    Since it is almost impossible for us to “win” this fight, someone like Elliott is needed.

    I wonder what would happen if these cases were taken to small claims court. 

    Any lawyers out there?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/V7ZXJ2TCC7DMRWAKKKKE2CDV44 Renee Boulware

    People rarely pay full fare for coach, or economy, fares these days. However, when something happens, they always want the max in a refund. The airline responded much like stores do when faced with a refund of merchandise a consumer bought on sale; they refund the discounted, prorated portion only.

  • Anonymous

    It seems if the airline cannot furnish him a first class seat then the airline should first refund him what he paid for the first class ticket and sell him the economy ticket at the price he would have paid at the time he purchased the 1st class ticket.

  • Anonymous

    You need to keep mediating because the only way the airlines will ever change their minds is if we continue to complain. Squeaky wheel gets the grease?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/5KOZI6MFVHYMCJDSDVVZR4ZVNE JessicaJ

    I never said it was right or justified, but that there is no breach of contract as David claims

  • Anonymous

    The problem with trying to do that is that it’s difficult to determine that exact amount.  I’ve seen where the prices changed as soon as I purchased a ticket.  Sometimes the airlines list (last at this price or only two at this price).  Even the travel agents who say they can find the price histories indicate that they can’t exactly pin down the amount by date or time.

    I also remember purchasing a ticket one, and trying different options, including the most restricted (cheapest), partially restricted, full-fare, and first-class.  The prices were all different.

  • Anonymous

    I strongly feel that you should not give up on involuntary downgrade cases. Echoing other commenters here, I’d argue that they are close to the most open-and-shut cases you’ll ever see in terms of determining what is fair for the passenger. If you’ll try to help people who feel that their 3.5 star hotel should have been a 4, or who want a partial refund because their room wasn’t clean enough for their standards, then I don’t see why you would turn your back on someone who was essentially defrauded by the airlines.

    All that said, I understand that these are cases where your mediation usually doesn’t help much, but I’d argue that’s all the more reason for you to get involved and maybe bring more attention to what is IMHO one of the most reprehensible airline ticketing practices, and one that I’ve almost never heard discussed in the media.

    As far as what airlines should be doing in these cases, I like what others have suggested: if it’s too complex to determine what a fair refund would be, issue a voucher for a first class seat at the price of an economy fare; as long as the voucher was valid for a reasonable amount of time (say, 2 years), I think this is a rare case where I’m okay with compensation being in the form of a voucher rather than money.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Allan-Jayne/100000343947533 Allan Jayne

    The way to vote with your feet is to never pay for first class.

    (Which leaves first class to the flyers who use upgrade privileges and in turn fewer dollars into the airlines’ coffers.)

    For me there is no point in passing up discount coach for paid first class when the airline reserves the right to substitute full fare coach.

    The right way to handle the situation is for the airline to refund more than the difference between the amount paid and the lowest discount fare for the seat the passenger got. (The “more than” is ”for insult”.) If nobody purchased first class maybe the airlines would do things the right way.

  • Anonymous

    They flew him A-Z.  IF he wanted to, he could have been refunded for that portion of the flight, but then he’d have had to book another ticket – hmmm… the difference being the $160!

  • Anonymous

    But fight how?  The credit card companies will not back you up, or they are in violation (believe me, its come up), and since they (airlines) have a CoC in black and white, you buy the ticket you agree to the terms.  To cry foul afterwords doesn’t give you a leg to stand on.  He should have gotten the desk to reaccommadte them both on another flight in first class – they could and WOULD have done so if he preferred.

  • Anonymous

    Absolutely!  After the fact the CC Companies are in violation of the terms of agreement if they back you up – in this case you were more than prepared – of course, they could always claim weather and bump you!  :)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/5KOZI6MFVHYMCJDSDVVZR4ZVNE JessicaJ

     You can certainly fight and argue if you want, but the issue is whether it’s breaking a contract (it’s not) and whether it’s a waste of time (probably).
    But if you do a little research and don’t let yourself get pushed around before it’s too late, you will get much better results. It’s worth fighting, but not after the fact.

  • Anonymous

    To calculate the value of a refund is absolute. Take what was used, subtract from the total and that is the refund. Discounts, super savers, full fare matters not. If a per flies full fare Pittsburgh, Chicago, LAX for a contract signing at $2336.00 misses their flight in Chicago and returns home the airline will charge PIT CHI PIT at full fare of $1605.00 and subtract the difference for refund of $731.00.  It always is in the airlines favor, if people read the small print that is given with every “Travel agent ” ticket, they would quit complaining and prepare for the rip off! You rarely can beat the airlines on this one.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/R6RUW4BK5NHUSLSXYM7B755PZA Vay

    There is another factor to consider in these involuntary downgrade cases and that is temporary loss of frequent flyer privileges for the flight in question (e.g. the ability to pre-select the best available seats at the time of booking in the ticketed cabin). Contrary to popular opinion, top tier frequent flyers can and have been subjected to involuntary downgrades.

    Let’s say, for example, a top tier frequent pays for a discounted business class ticket at $7,000 (in this example a full fare flexible economy ticket is $6,000 and a discounted economy ticket is $2,000) and is downgraded to economy class by the airline. The airline places the downgraded passenger in one of the worst seats in the economy cabin e.g. back row middle seat as that is all that was available.

    In this example the airline offers the passenger $1,000 refund as they have used the difference between the most expensive fully flexible economy fare and the heavily discounted business class fare. This does not take into account that the passenger may well have purchased the cheapest economy class ticket had he decided to travel in that cabin, and furthermore he would have been able to select the best seats at the time of booking.

    I believe the airline should in the above example offer a refund that consists of the difference between his heavily discounted business class fare and the cheapest economy fare at the time of booking i.e $5,000 in this case. In addition the airline should offer frequent flyer miles or vouchers as compensation for the temporary loss of frequent flyer benefits for that flight.

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