Leaning leaners and the airlines that let ‘em

An actual photo from the flight. My laptop survived.The first thing I noticed about the passenger in seat 9C on a recent US Airways flight from Orlando to Washington was that he was carrying a light sabre.

You know, as in Star Wars.

After we reached our cruising altitude, I got up to use the restroom, and when I returned, I found that he had reclined his seat — all the way. I had a little problem with that because I was in 10C, and I was trying to write a column on my laptop.

The seat pitch in economy class is small enough to give a Lilliputian claustrophobia, so it should come as no surprise that my PC wouldn’t open enough for me to use it.

No problem, I thought. I’m the travel troubleshooter. I can handle this.

“Sir,” I said, as politely as I could. “Would you mind sliding your seat up a notch? I can’t open my laptop with your seat all the way back.”

No answer.

“Sir?” I said, adding a little volume.

Nothing.

I tapped him on his shoulder gently.

“Please,” I said. “I can’t work.”

“I’ve been up since 4 a.m.,” Mr. Star Wars murmured, and turned away.

“What a coincidence,” I said, my blood pressure rising. “So have I.”

I had several options. First, I could escalate the confrontation. (But the man was traveling with a toy; a troubling sign.) I could move to a different seat. Or I could ask a flight attendant to intervene.

I’ll be honest: I felt like smacking Mr. Star Wars with his plastic weapon.

I picked door number three: to bring this ridiculous encounter to the attention of a flight attendant. You’ll probably find his response — and his resolution — to be interesting.

“Kindergarten,” he sighed, when I explained my predicament. “We’re on your side, but there’s not much we can do.”

The attendants didn’t want to confront Mr. Star Wars because they shared my misgivings, that this particular character might not be completely stable. The flight was full, even in first class. Otherwise, I’m pretty sure they would have offered me an upgrade for the rest of the short flight.

“It’s a shared space, isn’t it?” I asked.

“Yes,” said the attendant. “Just because you can lean all the way back doesn’t mean you should.”

How about the empty jumpseat, I asked him. Could I sit there? No — that’s against regulations, he said.

So how did this standoff end? I’ll get to the solution in a second. But first, a few words about who is to blame for this mess.

Ultimately, it’s a passenger’s responsibility to know proper flying etiquette (and don’t laugh –— there is such a thing). But there are other culpable parties. Chief among them, the airline.

Think about it. If the seats in economy class were made for adults, then we wouldn’t have to put up with this childish behavior. If US Airways offered a humane amount of legroom, then Mr. Star Wars could lean back and I could work on my laptop.

Pie in the sky? OK, how about limiting the amount of lean-back on the seats, if you’re going to wedge them that close together? That’s not unreasonable.

Too hard for your aircraft mechanics? Alright, here’s another suggestion: Why not remind passengers that they’re in a shared space and request that they ask before leaning. Mr. Star Wars nearly cracked the screen on my laptop when he forced his seat all the way back.

Had he done that, then I would have been forced to use my light sabre.

I’m kidding. I always pack a loaded antique pistol in my carry-on bag. The TSA hasn’t stopped me yet.

If an airline can’t manage to remind its passengers to practice common courtesy, then it should empower its own employees to step in and mediate the inevitable conflicts. I could tell the flight attendants just didn’t want to get involved.

I loved their fix, though. An attendant opened a tray table in the galley, I set up my computer and worked while standing until we started our descent. Then I wedged myself back into 10C for the rest of the flight.

So what does all of this mean to you? Next time you feel like taking a nap on a plane, please, please, ask the person behind you if it’s OK to go back.

You don’t want to be a rude recliner.

  • mythsayer

    And I realize the “just because you’re tall” wasn’t the issue here.

  • mythsayer

    That’s completely wrong. You BOTH had a right to be comfortable and her actions were very hypocritical.

  • mythsayer

    That’s my problem, too. I can’t sit in a straight up seat with massive pain. And not traveling isn’t an option for me.

  • mythsayer

    What about the rest of us who have spinal conditions who MUST recline the seat? There are at least three of us who posted that we have this problem.

  • mythsayer

    I have a good solution… just do the “buy what you want” thing… have a section of seats that don’t recline at all. That way everyone who doesn’t care about reclining can pay less and the rest of us who like to recline can pay more. I would happily do it.

  • flutiefan

    Chris, did you *seriously* ask the F/A if you could sit in the jumpseat, knowing full well that’s a big-time FAA violation? please tell me you were just trying to make a point…

  • http://elliott.org Christopher Elliott

    I think my exact words were, “I can’t sit in the jump seat, right? That’s against the rules.”

    And no — I haven’t read the FAA regs. Will take your word for it that it’s a very strict no-no.

  • Raven_Altosk

    My solution:
    “Dude, I know you need that thing to impress your GF because what you have below the belt ain’t doing it. Now sit up and be a man.”

    But then, I’m a jackass.

  • jpp42

    I downvoted your latest comment simply because you’re whining about downvoting. The purpose of the up/down buttons, (as interpreted by many), is to rate comments that are relevant and interesting, it’s not a comment on your personal worth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sommer.gentry Sommer Gentry

    That seems fine to me – then the seats should all be locked into a slight recline. I don’t really care where the seat lean is set, but the way the airlines have arranged this is analagous to selling two different people tickets for seat 21A. Two people can’t sit there. Only one person can use that seat.

    It’s the same way with the space between seats: only one person can have their body/seat in that space, but the reclining seats give two people a “ticket” for that space. No wonder there are fights!

  • skoc50

    I beg your pardon! I’m a 5’1″ woman and I NEVER slam my seat back. I consider that the height of rudeness for anyone to do.

  • KneeDefender

    jpp42 – Thanks. My “whining” was supposed to come across as mock-whining. Facetious/sarcastic (ironic?). I just thought it was peculiar that I posted something, someone took exception, I posted You’re right, I’m wrong – and then people downvoted my acquiescence-post. But again, thanks for your post/explanation.

  • KneeDefender

    philoprof, before I invented Knee Defender, I was on a flight and, spur of the moment, used a compact umbrella to do the same kinda thing you did with the PVC pipe – I just laid it across the two arms. That’s how I discovered the dynamic involved. As an inventor by nature, just that discovery was enough for me. I saw how the problem could be solved. It was only a few years later, after friends urged me to create a small device to accomplish the same thing, that I went into my workshop to do that.

    As for using the magazine, I’ve also seen that. Hey, whatever works.

  • ExplorationTravMag

    As ugly as they were about your reclining, I think the name calling is reprehensible. It never fails to astonish just how awful people can get so quickly in an exchange.

  • ExplorationTravMag

    I live near Tucson so most flights for me are transcontinental. I can get a great deal of work done on flights as long as those. How about instead of your dictating what I can and can’t do on a flight you allow me the personal freedom of doing what I prefer to do on a flight?

  • rjwing3

    I voted ‘No’ because the proper solution, as you suggested, is to make the seats the proper size for adults.

  • SoBeSparky

    Your personal freedom? How about my personal rights? The airline gave me a recliner button for my seatback. The airline did not make any effort to say their flight was suitable for you exercising “personal freedom” doing business, unless you pay for first class.

    If I pay for a recliner seat on a full-service airline, then I have paid for that service. If I choose a cheapo airline with no reclining seat, then I cannot recline and you get your work space, albeit with a 30-31″ pitch.

  • ExplorationTravMag

    Your rights end where mine begin, just the same as my rights end where yours begin. And you’re not paying for a reclining seat; you’re paying for a seat. Reclining is optional.

  • Ed Boston

    You are paying for a seat WITH a reclining function. Unless you get one of those seats against a bulkhead. Then you don’t get a reclining function. Sounds like you are trying to say that your rights extend into mine when it comes to using a button to operate a feature on the seat I paid for *AND* you know very well will recline back into the area in front of you. If your personal freedoms can’t work in that space, that’s your problem, not mine. Show me in the ticket rules anywhere it says I can’t use the reclining function or that its use is optional and dictated by the person sitting behind me..

  • SoBeSparky

    No, you should study up on the travel industry. Reclining is now a bonus feature, as fixed, no-recline seats (or “prereclined seats”) are proliferating. Other airlines feature brand new sliding-seat-bottom devices rather than reclining backs. You have a choice of airlines and seat technologies and so do the those who want to exercise their freedom to recline. As long as the airline provides the button and seat technology, it is giving the passenger the right to recline. Fly Spirit Airlines and Ryanair for your no-recline personal freedom.

  • http://ladylighttravel.wordpress.com/ LadyLightTravel

    I realize that **your** doctor told you that reclining didn’t help **your** back for **your** injury at the location on **your** spine. But others may not have the same injury, or may have been born with back issues. Spines are pretty complicated – there are bone issues, herniated disks, muscle issues, etc. Different people need different things.

    While you can see long legs, you can’t see back issues. Some people really do have bad backs and really need to recline on long flights.

  • http://ladylighttravel.wordpress.com/ LadyLightTravel

    I get the massive pain thing. The pain is so bad you want to pass out but can’t. If feels like someone is taking an arc welder up and down some of the nerves.
    I think the “don’t recline” people don’t get how bad it ireally is.

  • http://twitter.com/AbhiU Abhi

    It’s not about legal trouble or getting sued. It’s about the ‘almighty’ flight attendants these days that can snap at anything and consider it a threat to the comfort and/or health of the rest of the passangers and the crew. I didn’t say about legal trouble for sneezing nor suggested it.
    Now that your bring it up, throwing/flicking water on fellow passanger could get some oversensitive recliner’s legal mind into action. It’s not the actual outcome but the hassle that wouldn’t be worth it.

  • Dave

    I take exception. I would say the following: US offers “standard” recline in Y. The reality is the pitch (or lack) is based on what people are willing to pay in fare. If you wanted the larger seat/pitch, you could purchase a first class ticket. You could also pay the fee for the exit seat.

  • Rad

    The airline order the seats installed in the planes they fly as a custom option. It is entirely up to the airline as to which seat is installed in any given plane as well as specifying the seat pitch.

  • ts

    watch where you sit.
    You can choose to sit behind a non reclining seat.
    or reclone your own seat.
    you have no right to control another seat.

  • crazytrini

    if you want more space pay for an upgrade.When i pay for my seat i also pay for the recline or else do not make seats that recline . If i want more space on a longer flight i will shell out more for my family if you don’t want to do that then dont travel

  • AgentSteve

    Seems to me that the F/A had the right and responsibility to have those two jerks charged with disrupting an aircraft in flight. Foul language, seat kicking, arguing, etc., IS, in my opinion, grounds for charges to be filed. Everyone has the right to expect a relatively “hassle-free” flight and it is the F/A’s responsibility to do what they can, to ensure safety and civility are adhered to. Had charges been levied and the jerks “greeted” by the authorities, I venture to say that they’d think twice, the next time. Or better yet, Delta should bar them from flying!

  • calbff

    I have a zero tolerance policy myself. I’m a larger guy (not overweight, and I fit just fine in a normal seat) – if I see the person in front of me setting up to recline, I put my knees a little ahead of where they’re comfortable but block the person from reclining more than a reasonable amount (I always allow them some space). They either hit my legs and give up, or ask me to move them – and I simply say no. There’s no argument against it, you want to recline, I want to be able to fit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/donna.caruso.37 Donna Caruso

    How about eliminating reclining seats altogether for shorter & daytime routes. You really don’t get much of a recline anyway. Only allow them for red-eyes, where people do try to get some sleep. I think that would help avoid nasty confrontations between fliers.

  • http://flyicarusfly.com/ Fly, Icarus, Fly

    Interesting concept, but how would you police it since the same aircraft may be used for both long and short haul flights?

  • Ed Boston

    What would really eliminate those nasty confrontations is if the airlines would just return the pitch of the seats to a reasonable distance!

  • BMG4ME

    Chris this patent was born from a similar situation http://www.google.com/patents/US7333323

  • ShortWomanFromMontreal

    What skoc50 said! I too am 5’1″ and I am always considerate of others. But I do expect the same courtesy. RetiredNavyphotog, it is obvious that you have never met any good “short women”. More’s the pity for you. ;)

  • http://twitter.com/JonathanHutter JonathanHutter

    I might believe your story if you didn’t include the part about the guy in front of you almost cracking your computer screen. Since he reclined it while you were in the restroom, I doubt that actually happened. He also likely reclined it before you got up, since you can recline a seat once you reach 10K altitude, long before cruising altitude.

  • Jim Jk

    ExplorationTravMag I have read all your commments and I COMPLETELY agree with you. 99% people who recline their seats fully don’t need to do so, they just do it because they think they have more space and don’t giving a dime about others NOT having space?

    And you people say that it is YOUR seat and YOUR space? Ok how about hitting my table every 5 seconds to force you to move your seat up? It is MY TABLE I can slam it for whatever reason.

    What about turning the air on all the way and point it all the way forward to land right on the top of the reclining persons head? Is that my right?

    Or what about Putting a couple of books in your seat-back pocket, and then continually taking them in and out? Is that MY RIGHT?

    I don’t care if these are rude acts. And when other people don’t have manners believe me I can do much “better” than them.

  • Jim Jk

    The only thing that really worths a response from what you said is:

    “Let the recliner recline and -pass out-”

    I would say -pass away- it would make the world a better place

  • SaraHoll

    Personally, I think that you if purchase a seat in Economy, you are free to recline at your leisure and be as comfortable as you want, as you paid for that right. I don’t view it as shared space, rather the space that you bought, and are in control of. If space for “working on a laptop” will be an issue for you, upgrade or book the seats behind those that don’t recline or in a bulkhead row.

  • SaraHoll

    Personally, I think that you if purchase a seat in Economy, you are free to recline at your leisure and be as comfortable as you want, as you paid for that right. I don’t view it as shared space, rather the space that you bought, and are in control of. If space for “working on a laptop” will be an issue for you, upgrade or book the seats behind those that don’t recline or in a bulkhead row.

  • Rebecca

    It’s Cathay pacific. I love that too. You can recline as much as it allows you without affecting anyone.

  • Rebecca

    Offering to buy a drink is a very good idea, very civilised. Alternatively, the flight attendant could step in to offer a drink or a small gift like a pen to show the appreciation. This kind of practice should be widely publicised.

  • Rebecca

    I like CX’s design and I would propose all airlines to follow, because even if ‘they are not really comfortable’, seats should not be designed to make one person comfortable only, they should be designed to max comfort for all including the one behind you. Having the reclined seat within your cell is the best trade off if one doesn’t want to pay more for more space or can’t afford to. Of course this would be different if airlines change their seat strategies !

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Sobolewski/100000240428075 Mark Sobolewski

    I was on a flight from MUC to IAD a few months ago and tried to lean my seat back, slowly, and it lurched. The old German woman began screaming and kicking as if I had attacked her. I thought maybe I knocked something down. I then quietly tried to do it later and she did the same thing again. This was after checking to see if she had room.
    The bottom line is that some people are sociopaths and this woman was one of them. I heard her griping loudly in German about the food, floor space, etc. Some people think they get ahead in life by stepping in front of others and screaming literally at the top of their lungs when their “space” is invaded. If I had been in a stronger mood that day (I was worn out from another incident with a crazed airport worker that day), I would have told her off.
    Sure, the guy in front should have leaned his seat up to allow the guy to work on his laptop but acting snobby about it doesn’t help. If the seats lean back, you should do so (slowly and seeing if they’re ok, no laptops open if possible.). We shouldn’t have to get a written invitation everytime.

  • Cat

    Perhaps we should be having a discussion with the airlines – 31 inches give or take is physically uncomfortable and the reclining was not an issue until the airlines crammed more and more people in to save on cost of running additional flights…