Is this enough compensation? Denied boarding because of bogus visa problem, but his luggage went to China anyway

January 25, 2011

If you though your last trip was bad, you might want to talk with James Liu before complaining about it.

He just had an frustrating experience with United Airlines, which started in Columbia, SC, and was to have ended in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia. But he never made it that far. In Chicago, a United representative told him he couldn’t continue to China because he didn’t have the right transit visa.

But it turns out his paperwork was in order. And although Liu was eventually sent back to Columbia, his luggage took a different route — first flying to China and then taking its time getting back to the States. United offered a half-hearted apology and some compensation. But is it enough?

Problems like Liu’s are relatively rare, and they aren’t specifically addressed anywhere in United’s contract of carriage, the legal agreement between you and the airline. Airlines can be held responsible for allowing passengers to board an international flight when they don’t have the right paperwork, so gate agents often err on the side of caution when determining who can, and who can’t, fly.

Unfortunately, airlines don’t always have the most up-do-date information about visas in their system. In Liu’s case, the most authoritative information came from the Chinese embassy, which confirmed he was, indeed, good to go.

So let’s fast-forward to the confrontation with United’s employees in Chicago.

At the help desk next to the terminal, United agents told me that my information was inaccurate, and I was denied boarding.

United put a cancellation on my ticket and gave me a receipt and an understanding that I may at least be able to receive a partial refund for my unused flights. They also advised me to inform the agents in charge of boarding that my luggage needs to be pulled off so they do not have to unload in order to find my luggage.

I also understand that United’s policy also states that a passenger’s luggage is not to be on an international flight without the passenger on the plane. After informing the agents of my situation, I was told that informing them was unnecessary, it was their policy to remove my luggage and it would be done automatically without my intervention, and what I needed to do was wait by baggage claim for my luggage to come out so I can be on my way.

Actually, making sure your bags fly with you is a standard security protocol, often referred to as Positive Passenger Baggage Match. Liu was sent back to Columbia after spending several hours waiting in vain for his luggage, and eventually offered a refund on the unused part of his ticket. But the bags … well, that’s another story.

The following day, I called United baggage claim to check the status of my luggage, since their website showed that my baggage claim number was invalid.

The representative informed me that their records show that the last scan of my luggage was in Beijing. I demanded an explanation as to why or even how my luggage got to Beijing, especially considering I waited partly due to the fact that I received confirmation stating that yes my luggage was indeed pulled off from the plane.

I spoke to a supervisor about the situation and was still provided with no explanation, no compensation, only an assurance that United is looking for my luggage and they would contact me by phone as soon as they found any updates of any sort regarding my luggage.

Liu sent multiple emails to United, asking it to address two problems. First, the fact that he was denied boarding because of a bogus visa problem. And second, that his luggage went to China without him, and in violation of its own policies and security protocol.

United’s response? It offered him either a $400 dollar travel voucher and 10,000 miles or 25,000 miles.

Is this enough compensation? A survey of more than 1,000 readers this morning says: no.

(Photo: Santa Fe Media/Flickr Creative Commons)

Joel Wechsler

@Arizona Road Warrior I’m aware of the various transit visa requirements because it’s my business to know but there is a vast difference between a gate agent in SFO knowing you needed a visa for China, your final destination, and a gate agent in Chicago knowing the ins and outs of transit visas to ULN.
Jack

Could this story have had a favorable outcome if travel had been on Air China (originating from a US gateway)? In other words: Does an airline based in the country of destination necessarily have more accurate information regarding travel document requirements?
Thomas

@ Mike Z

There’s just not enough information here to determine fault. As I stated, “Did the op fly with United from BWI? If so, and his paperwork was in order, I believe he’s entitled to a full refund of his ticket, compensation for the luggage, and United pay a fine for it’s actions.”

I don’t know how much you travel or how many times you deal with the various embassies, but I can tell you they’re government employees, as you stated, and they do make mistakes. I’ve had embassies tell me one thing, and found out the opposite upon arrival.
Christopher Elliott

Wow, some excellent comments and questions here! I’m going to have to loop back with the OP to answer some of them. I’ll see if I can get him to answer directly.

Often, I don’t get all of the details with the original query. And when I write these posts at 5 a.m., I don’t have the insight to ask. (At 5 a.m., who does?)

I’ve gotta say, some of you could have a career on the copy desks of the Wall Street Journal, New York Times or USA Today.

Seriously, I’m honored to have you as commenters. You make me want to be a better journalist.
Chris in NC

@ Arizona and Thomas

Since the bags were interlined from BWI > ORD > PEK, it would be logical that his ticket was book through UA or an UA representative. If the ticket BWI > ORD segment was booked separately from the ORD > PEK segment, then it would be unlikely that bags would transfer. Then again, stranger things occur in the airline world.

However, AZ makes a good point. Was the PEK > ULN segment interlined with the rest of the itinerary? If not, that would be a reason to mitigate UA’s responsibility. I understand why UA’s gate agents are required to take a hard stance on the Visa issue. If UA transports a passenger that is denied entry, the airline has to transport the passenger out and may be subject to fines.

@ Joel
You make a good point. Visa rules are complex and every gate agent may not know the details. However, SOMEONE (ie a supervisor) at the gate should be an “expert” or there should be a protocol where an issue like this could be clarified quickly. Again, don’t know how he “cleared” at BWI and then be denied boarding at ORD as it is my understanding that passport checks are done at the origin airport.
Whatup

I went from Baltimore to UB last month and then on to Swaziland and back to Baltimore. I told the travel agent right away that I wanted to avoid China at all costs–and this was easy. There are flights from Moscow on Aeroflot and then there is what I did which is fly via Seoul to UB.
Lesson here is — stay out of China unless you absolutely HAVE to travel through or to there.
Linda Snow

He should get a full refund IN CASH ! These vouchers are just useless, especially since they’re hard to use and the victim usually doesn’t want to ever fly that airline again anyhow.
Emanuel Levy

I’m curious what about hotels? Was the letter writer able to get a refund on his hotels (if any)
Thomas

@ Chris in NC

Many times I have flown on different tickets to an international destination and had my bags checked through to my destination. All you need to know is the airport codes and act smarter than the desk agent. And that doesn’t take a lot :)

Living in NC, I would think you know this, since I too live here part of the year.
http://www.cockam.com ajaynejr

It was a trip in vain. He should have gotten his entire fare refunded as money plus his baggage returned to him, for starters.
http://www.aircraftmgt.com Aircraft Mgt

It’s terrible how consumers are left powerless in situations like this and all they get is a partial refund when it is the airlines mistake.
Scott

@ Thomas: Wow, with that superior attitude, I’m sure you get loads of help when you need it. Being informed is good. Acting “smarter” and talking down to people is not.

It is the responsibility of the passenger to ensure that they have the appropriate documentation for ALL stops on their travels. Many people fail to do this. It is unclear from the narrative whether or not the passenger had the appropriate documentation. Airlines often get fined in the 5-figures for each passenger not having proper documentation, and said passenger then gets deported back where they originated.

Airlines will *always* say no when it is unclear. It is in a traveler’s best interests to always check documentation requirements, even for connecting points, and not to leave any doubt.
Thomas

@ Scott

You’re right, I should have said knowledgeable, i.e., airport codes off the top of your head.
Arizona Road Warrior

@ Chris in NC – “If the ticket BWI > ORD segment was booked separately from the ORD > PEK segment, then it would be unlikely that bags would transfer.”
- – - – - – - – — –
He could have claimed his bag(s), checked in at the ticket counter for his flight to PEK and maybe to UNL (if he was flying Air China since they are a Star Alliance member) where his bag(s) was\were checked to PEK or UNL.

It was somewhat ‘unclear’ in the OP story to Chris Elliott but it sounds like he was denied boarding at the gate. I would like to have the answers to my questions to see if the OP contributed to the problem (i.e. having separate tickets); the OP actually was at fault by not having the correct paperwork or United totally dropped the ball.

I agree with you that there should have been an ‘expert’ available to come to the gate when issues like this could be clarified quickly. Would you have asked for a supervisor\manager\etc. if you were denied boarding? If a gate agent told me that my paperwork was lacking, I would have asked for a supervisor plus I would have pull out the print-outs from the respective websites to argue my point\position\stance\etc.

As you stated, how could he been cleared to travel at BWI if he had a single ticket.

It could have been a case of gross incompetency of a few UA employees in ORD and BWI (if they didn’t check his passport). Or there could be more to this story.
Jack

@ Arizona Road Warrior

“…I would have pull out the print-outs from the respective websites to argue my point\position\stance\etc.”

Sometimes the airline employee will dismiss this with something like “If you don’t leave the gate area I’m calling the police.” Having documentation to argue your point is certainly a rational move. Sadly there are too many airline employees who are unable to behave rationally.
James Liu

Hey all, thank you for reading and commenting, and thank you Elliott for writing about this issue I have been trying to deal with.

I’ll just do my best with the questions from here if no one minds starting from the earliest posts.

@Arizona Road Warrior
My flight was from CAE (Columbia, SC) > ORD > PEK > ULN booked together through Expedia. PEK > ULN was to be handled by MIAT Airlines, the rest by United.

My trip to Mongolia was for 2 weeks, and my transit through China was for under 6 hours, and I have checked with US Dept of State as well as both Embassy’s (Mongolia, China) to confirm my documentation. Meeting the girlfriend’s parents for the first time, so was keen to have everything in order!

They did NOT check my visa at CAE but, I thought nothing of it since I did not need it at any stop, and the I asked an agent at the help desk well over an hour prior to departure once I heard the announcement requiring all passengers having a visa for transit.

At the desk, I was told I needed a visa for China, and the agents (one for the first try, second when someone else was brought in) told me that their records show I needed a visa. They would not take the Embassy website documentation from my smartphone, nor were they willing to call when given the number, nor would they take the call if I make it myself. After having to stand in line just to talk to anyone and dealing with everything, the flight had already finished boarding.

After what seemed like being out of options, I went into damage control mode and tried to get my luggage taken off the flight, to which I was told “it is policy to do so, we do not need you telling us these things”.

Furthermore, when I called the next day to attempt to get my ticket refunded (after failing to succeed at the airport), I was told I was wrong for 3 hours before I managed to climb high enough up the management ladder to find someone who admitted that United was in the wrong here.

As far as why I went to BWI instead of back to CAE, the price of the ticket to CAE was over $700 dollars, and BWI (where a friend stayed) was only around 250. In addition to the fact that I had to pay full price for a ticket back, I was not allowed to use any of my remaining ticket value from the trip despite being told I could originally.

Also, I have received the refund for the ticket minus a few fees, which puts me a few hundred down the hole. I have been offered the $400 voucher and miles in addition as compensation, which I have not yet accepted. All other options of compensation were refused (discount on upgrade to a higher class, partial discount on a ticket booked through a different source, any ticket that would get me to ULN on a certain date for cheaper than I could purchase myself, etc). A ticket to ULN as offered through United but the cost was over $1800 USD, with the voucher applied it would cost about the same as the ticket that I purchased myself recently. My luggage was never found by United, my girlfriend went to the airport after a week or so and simply picked it up herself since United still did not know whether the luggage was in ORD or PEK. Go figure.
Chris in NC

Wow! Hindsight is 20/20, but in the future, I would likely obtain a visa to remove any potential for problems.

I have a better understanding why United agent’s actions. What if the outbound flight on MIAT was canceled or delayed causing the OP to stay in PEK past the 24 hour window? If this happened, I suspect that United may be liable for transporting the OP to PEK.

The requirement : “Visas are not required of aliens who hold air tickets to the final destination and have booked seats on international airliners flying directly through China, and will stay in a transit city for less than 24 hours without leaving the airport.” is also unclear. Does that mean the flight mean the inbound and outbound flight must be a “direct” connection (ie same inbound aircraft, same outbound aircraft)?
Thomas

@ Chris in NC As someone who doesn’t fly internationally,
(as you stated in another post) this can be confusing to a novice.
In international airports, you would use the transit area. When you
arrive at the transit airport, your travel documents are checked.
As long as your travel plans fit within the individual country’s
guidelines, you are permitted to stay until your next flight. I
hope this clears up your confusion.
James Liu

The problem with obtaining a visa to remove any potential
problems is just you start paying an extra $130 for the China visa
+ expenses. If I suspected it could be an issue, I honestly
wouldn’t have worried about it, but being a recent college grad
still on the job hunt, I really did not want to start adding costs
onto a $2000+ ticket.
Arizona Road Warrior

@ James Liu – “My flight was from CAE (Columbia, SC) > ORD > PEK > ULN booked together through Expedia. PEK > ULN was to be handled by MIAT Airlines, the rest by United.”
- – - – - – - – — – -
The flight from CAE to ORD is operated by a regional airline, Atlantic Southeast Airlines, contracted as United Express to United. That is why the agent at the ticket counter in CAE didn’t check the passport.
Thomas

Hey Chris,

After reading Mr. Liu’s additional information, I hope that you intervene this story. From his story, it sounds like he was able to recover his luggage, but that doesn’t leave UAL off the hook for their screw up.

If my license to practice law included SC, I’d be on this in a minute!!!
Arizona Road Warrior

@ James Liu: First, sorry about your troubles. Second, thank you for posting the answers to our questions.

I have another question, did you contact your travel agent, Expedia, when you were in ORD? They could have help you by talking to UA, sending them the requirements, etc.

As posted by another commenter, another solution is to fly to ICN or NRT then catch a flight to UNL thus bypassing China.
http://www.foxstudio.biz Reynard

I’ve been to Mongolia five times now, three times via Beijing. Never again. Never. Never. Never. I now fly through Seoul on Korean Air, which schedules its flights in the evenings to minimize the risk of delays and cancellations due to “weather”, usually wind, in UB. The flight back to Seoul leaves between 11pm and 12am and gets in at 3am. But there is a good transit hotel in the airport. (ACV/SFO/INC/ULN).

I’ve flown on MIAT too, after watching their flights to UB go, while my Air China flight sat and sat and sat….But even though the MIAT flights are relatively inexpensive, you pay for anything over, I think, 20kilos, so for me that added $60-$100 x2.

I book through a Mongolian travel agency, Air Bridge, which has US offices in Denver. They know all the best ways to get to UB. I work with some scientists based out of the Denver Zoo and that’s who they book with.

Also want to comment that we fly on United for most domestic flights and by far and away, no contest, I’ve found that the snottiest and most unpleasant United employees to deal with are at ORD.

I’m glad you are going to go to bat for Mr. Liu. He deserves much more than what United offered.
James Liu

I actually did not try Expedia, although in hindsight I should have. My previous experience with Expedia customer service has been them directing me to the airline carrying the flight anyways, so I may be have thought it was going to be a waste of time.

As far as flying a different route, it adds a fair amount of change (at least it did while booking) if I went through Korea (the cheapest alternative at the time), however even then, I was told I could do NOTHING with my ticket by the time I tried booking home. Since United doesn’t carry direct to ULN, I believe have to leave the airport in an international airport and re-check my luggage. Furthermore, I was already too high on my credit card to book another international flight.
Flyer

What I’d be interested to know is if the UA agent(s) used TIMATIC as that is the most common tool used by airlines to determine documentary requirements. If the agent did in fact use TIMATIC and assuming the the agent correctly understood what was displayed, then I see no intentional or reckless actions on their part. As said by others, no employee can or would be an expert in all thing China visa related.. So, the use of a reliance on a system such as TIMATIC is understandable.

The issue of his bag moving to PEK without him– allegedly in violation of a security rule is a little less clear.. Since these issues are covered under the airlines Aircraft Operator Standard Security Program or AOSSP, which is a confidential, restricted access document (Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations, Sections 1520 among others) that is drawn up by the airline but approved by the TSA as well as other agencies, it’s not clear if this was or was not a specifically prohibited action.. You’d have to have access to UA’s AOSSP to see if in fact there is an exception for these matters or not.
James Liu

Is TIAMATIC the “expensive software that is updated regularly based on a book of regulations published in Amsterdam” or something along those lines? If so, then yes, UA agents did use it. From what they tell me, the program can not be wrong, it is standardized and updated regularly, however the issue by the sounds of what they would tell me from the information they have is they read ALL points off of the China transit as one idea rather than 2. Basically the 24 hour free transit would only apply to Pudong, Shanghai etc, as well as the 48 hour for select countries. When attempting to correct them on this mistake, I was just told I was wrong, I need to understand what I am reading (one supervisor on the phone explained that she had years of experience on the matter, and furthermore me asking to speak to her supervisor was a waste of time since she was the most experienced person there).
Flyer

That’s TIMATIC.. it’s actually an IATA product and, for lack of anything better, is the most complete and up-to-date tool out there.. but.. I will say that in some cases, it’s not the most user-friendly or easy-to-read material.. There’s lots of “except for”, “in addition to”, “unless” and other kinds of words in the displayed results.. it’s not usually so clear cut.

As far as it cannot be wrong.. as is customary, it’s only as good as the data that gets entered and updated.. but to be fair, IATA is generally seen as one of the most credible and current sources for this type of information since there is no one single governmental agency that collects and reports out on it.

In other words, you really do have to read it very carefully as it’s easy to make the mistake and read the sections about entering passengers versus transit passengers and assume that it’s one single section and not two separate things.
TIMATIC does ask the user to enter a fair number of details like country or origin, destination and connection if any, as well as passport type and country held.. So, it does drill down to some fair specifics, but again, it’s not impossible to mis-read or otherwise what’s listed..

I suspect, without having been there to see what you presented, what TIMATIC data was entered and what TIMATIC’s database was at that time, that it’s not entirely impossible that the results were in fact misread.. but again, unless you can recreate that situation it’s hard to know for sure..
James Liu

While I was on the phone with a supervisor, I have asked if
she could read out exactly what information she had, or any way I
could find access to this specific wording that she had. However,
the best she would give me was a paraphrasing that sounded like it
would’ve been word for word from the Chinese Embassy site, and
apparently she had a third bullet in between the two given on the
Embassy site that she would not disclose. My assumption is that it
was misread or misunderstood, but I have no way of being able to
prove it.
bodega

Mr Liu@Here is what Timatic says, based on you being a US
citizen and not having travel to certain countries prior to 6 days
to your outbound travel date. National U.S.A. (US) /Embarkation
U.S.A. (US) Transit China (People’s Rep.) (CN) Destination Mongolia
(MN) ALSO CHECK DESTINATION INFORMATION BELOW China (People’s Rep.)
(CN) TWOV (Transit Without Visa): – All transiting passengers are
subject to passport control. For more details on document
requirements, please enter China (People’s Rep.) as a destination.
Visa required, except for Those passengers continuing their journey
within 24 hours (or within the same day at Guangzhou – CAN) to a
third country by the same or first connecting aircraft, and holding
documents and confirmed tickets for their onward journey. Leaving
the airport transit area is allowed. Overnight facilities are
available outside the airport: Visa required, except for Nationals
of U.S.A., provided arriving at and departing from Shanghai
Hongqiao or Pu Dong airports only, continuing to a third country
within 48 hours and holding confirmed onward tickets and all
documents required for next destination. Warning: – Passengers not
complying with the entry or transit regulations will be deported by
same or returning aircraft. For details, click here Mongolia (MN)
Passport required. – Passport and/or passport replacing documents
must be valid on arrival. Visa required, except for A stay of max.
90 days to nationals of U.S.A..
Josh

@James — when you say you “received a refund for the ticket minus a few fees”, do you mean the unused part of the original ticket, the entire original ticket, or that plus the ticket to BWI?

At the very least, United owes you a complete refund of your original ticket (including fees), the ticket to BWI, plus reasonable costs to get back to CAE (assuming you took a plane/train/car back) and the cost for your girlfriend to ship your luggage back to you. You had no reason to make any part of the trip if not to the final destination, so they shouldn’t be able to claim you flew some of the segments and thus should pay for them.

In addition to that, *I* think they should help you reschedule/upgrade/etc at a discount, but above is a bare minimum. Please keep us updated; if they can’t make this right many of us will consider it in our future travels.

The “luggage going without you” rule is often misunderstood — generally, it means *you* can’t deliberately cause the your luggage to fly without you (checking in then not boarding, going standby on another flight, etc). The airline can, and often does, send your bag on another flight without you knowing (sometimes an earlier flight to the destination, just as often a later flight after they misconnect it). That’s always been okay under the bag match rules. In addition, I believe those rules have been relaxed now that every checked bag is x-rayed/inspected.
James Liu

The part that confuses me is the ‘same or first connecting aircraft’ part. Don’t suppose anyone with better knowledge of the system can clarify that?
James Liu

@Josh
I received the full value of the ticket for CAE to ULN and to BWI minus the booking cost for the ticket to BWI and some other fees from my ULN ticket that I am not sure where it went to (difference of almost 300, I have changed the flight time once due to my own mistake but I don’t believe that is all of it). No compensation for the drive home from BWI, and I have been offered 10,000 miles for my luggage. Since I am going again, we have decided just to hold it there since there was no assistance in sending it back, and it was a 50lb suitcase.

I can overlook the cost of purchasing a day of wireless internet at ORD since I was kept there for 5 hours due to some agents telling me I was not allowed to leave until I claimed the luggage that was pulled off (which I mistakenly did not question since it made some sense with security issues and all I suppose), and they would not forward my luggage to any address, I would have to pick up myself. After some odd 5 hours of waiting by a carousel (with repeated checks of asking if the luggage was pulled off, which they confirmed it was, and asking if there was no other options so I can book a flight out), I spoke to a night shift agent who told me that not only could I have left, they would’ve tagged and forwarded my luggage. Incidentally, she also confirmed that my luggage was pulled off, so I am a bit curious now to see what United’s system shows for these things.
Guest

Are you licensed to practice in IL or WI? I have a similar case with United.
Guest

Mr. Elliot,
I have a similar “incorrect visa requirements” case with United, and would like to know if Mr. Liu was able to resolve his dispute with them.
I look forward to your response.
Thanks.
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