“I lost several thousand dollars based on advice given by a cruise line”

If Jothi Kesavan’s problem looks familiar, that’s because it should be. No sooner do I say the word “cruise” these days than readers of this blog think, “denied boarding.”

I’m not going to disappoint you.

Here’s what happened to Kesavan: After his wife became seriously ill last summer, his in-laws flew in to help the family.

“We had decided to take the cruise to Alaska to cheer her up and to entertain her parents,” he says.

And that’s when the trouble started.

He recalls,

I called Princess Cruises to get price quote from a sales agent.

During the course of our conversation, I had asked if my in-laws would require visas. (They already had visas to visit US). [They said no.]

Later, I went with a local travel agent for purchasing the cruise ticket, because she was able to get a better price. Even with her, I specifically mentioned to her that our in-laws have Indian passport and if it would need any type of visa.

She called Princess Cruises and confirmed to me that they would not need a visa.

Ah, if only!

A few days before the cruise, a friend mentioned Kesevan’s in-laws might need a visa, since the ship makes a stop in a Canadian port.

Immediately, I went to the travel agent in person. She called the cruise company sales department.

Once again, those agents confirmed that no need for the visas.

Just to be sure, we called the cruise company customer service. The folks there categorically stated that they will not allow my in-laws to board unless they have Canadian visa.

The Kesavans couldn’t get Canadian visas in time for their cruise, so their agent suggested they cancel the trip and “try” to get a refund. Princess offered to refund the taxes — about $400 — but kept $5,500 of his cruise fare.

“I lost several thousand dollars based on advice given by a cruise line,” he says. “Could you help me?”

My first thought in considering this case is, what took him so long? The cruise happened last summer, and he’s contacting me in early 2012?

Kesavan says there’s a reason for that. “My wife was quite ill, so I did not have energy or motivation to pursue this with Princess Cruises,” he told me.

Alright. Next question: Did he get any assurances about the visas in writing?

No, both the agent and the Princess reps delivered these assurances by phone. So there’s no proof this information was conveyed to him as he remembers it.

This problem is so common that I have a term for the decision families are faced with when they have a visa problem: port separation anxiety. It can happen to anyone, even Canadians, or people who were born in Canada.

I usually dismiss these cases, not because I don’t want to help, but because the answer is always the same: having the right visas is entirely your responsibility.

Quoting the Princess passage contract:

It is the Passenger’s sole responsibility to obtain and have available when necessary the appropriate valid travel documents. All Passengers are advised to check with their travel agent or the appropriate government authority to determine the necessary documents. You will be refused boarding or disembarked without liability for refund, payment, compensation, or credit of any kind if You do not have proper documentation, and You will be subject to any fine or other costs incurred by Carrier which result from improper documentation or noncompliance with applicable regulations, which amount may be charged to Your stateroom account and/or credit card.

Why, then, are Princess agents offering any kind of assurances that someone does — or doesn’t — require a visa? If the final word is an “appropriate government authority” shouldn’t they always defer to the government on these questions?

To what extent is Princess liable for giving Kesavan misleading, and perhaps even false, information? Should it offer him a refund? And should I try to get a refund for him?

Update (10:45 p.m.): And now, the final word …

Um, actually, maybe not that close a vote. Looks like I made the right call.

(Photo: blmiers2/Flickr)

  • Joe Farrell

    Here is a tip:

    They.
    Record.
    The.
    Calls.

    Get the call.  Listen.  See if the conclusion your ‘client’ reached was appropriate given what the CSR said.  

    It always best to avoid the he said/ she said and listen to the call.  95% of the time the customer is an idiot and hears what they want to hear.   

    I withhold my vote until we hear the call. 

  • Joe Farrell

    Mexico these days is as serious as a heart attack!

  • TonyA_says

    Maybe they don’t know how to use TIMATIC on their GDS and would rather call someone who doesn’t know how to use it either. What can I say in the day of facebook and one line text messages?

  • Joe Farrell

    I guess the major difference is that Brazil does not have Disney World, New York, or the bright lights of Hollywood to lure people. People will go through the hassle to come to the US whereas most Americans probably think Brazil is in Africa. . .  

    thats not a dig on Brazil, but facts are facts! 

  • Luh McDevitt

    My husband is Mexican and we went through a similar thing with Royal Caribbean a few years back, but I did get a credit for another cruise. First of all, the law had just gone into effect and we had no time to apply for the visa … so a bit different. RCL wanted to keep some of our money but our travel agent got them to credit the entire amount to a future cruise that did not go to Canada, but what I find is odd is this …. I was told that my husband had the option to go on the cruise but just not get off at the Canadian ports (which were 2 in our case) as it was a Canada/New England cruise. I find it surprising that they were not allowed to go on the ship at all. Something just sounds strange to me.

  • Spanky_McF

     Like that recording isn’t going to be “lost.”   You ever notice how they say the call “may” be recorded?  They’re not going to provide it if it incriminates their agent and them.

  • Spanky_McF

     Like that recording isn’t going to be “lost.”   You ever notice how they say the call “may” be recorded?  They’re not going to provide it if it incriminates their agent and them.

  • Spanky_McF

     Like the TA is gonna cough up anything, responsible or not. 

  • AgentSteve

    Bottom line is clear: passengers are ultimately responsible for their own travel documents.  When obtaining information verbally, regardless of from whom, get it in writing!  In most cases, such as this one, the passengers “assumed” they were getting correct information (based on their comments).  However, it is very clear on Princess’ web site, what their requirements were, in this situation. http://www.princess.com/learn/faq_answer/pre_cruise/prepare.jsp  I’m a bit skeptical that all the details as mentioned, are indeed, what actually took place.  The passenger was doing his due diligence, to ask the question and pursue guidance; however, he got nothing in writing.  Again, with the repeated inquiries of the passenger, I’m at a loss, as to why he didn’t ask for a written confirmation.  It seems that he was trying his best, to be absolutely convinced, that a visa was not required.  Obviously, his mistake was believing what he heard and not what he read.  Sorry Chris, I don’t see where Princess is at fault or obligated.  Also, if the facts are as stated, then his travel agent needs to find another career.

  • AgentSteve

    NOT exactly the WHOLE story!  Yes, the fine can be $300 – BUT, that’s only the fine, per passenger, that “illegally” disembarks.  However, the passenger is fully liable for ANY and ALL fines, penalties, etc., that are placed upon the cruise line itself, because a passenger illegally disembarked.  On the surface, it looks like a cute trick; heck, I’ll just get off and pay the $300 fine.  You know all that “fine print” you don’t read?  The cruise lines are not going to allow themselves to be financially punished, for the blatant and illegal actions of a passenger.  They are clearly indemnified, by the passenger, for the total fines and costs incurred. 

    There is no value or reason for your slighting of Canada.  If you don’t like the country, don’t go there.  Your disparaging remarks, as well as your logic, speak volumes, about you.

  • AgentSteve

    Trip insurance would probably NOT have covered any loss, as to the visa issue.

  • AgentSteve

    The odds are ZERO!  As a travel agent, I speak to Princess’ call center often.  FYI, they are located in California.

  • TonyA_says

    Ok recite the other fines that may be.
    You know very well why these foreign registered ships have to stop at some foreign distant port (i.e. Canada) if only for the reason of not violating PVSA. So what is your logic if you have any?

  • AgentSteve

    The reason cruise ships are not flagged in America are manyfold and I won’t bore you with details.  The ONLY reason NCL’s Pride of America is U.S. flagged is so that it can sail around the Hawaii’n islands, without having to stop at a foreign port.  Part of being U.S. flagged also require/d U.S. crew/staff.  I sailed on the maiden voyage of Pride of America, from San Francisco to Hawaii.  I could tell you horror story after horror story, about how bad that cruise was.  Suffice it to say, U.S. employees on a cruise ship is why NCL pulled out and canceled their other two ships, to be home-port in Hawaii.  Also, for a U.S. flag ship, it has to be built in America; however, Pride of America was built in Germany.  How did they get around this?  Well, the hull of the ship was actually built in Pascagula, Mississippi, but the company for whom the ship was being built, went bankrupt.  So, technically, because the hull was American made, it “qualified” for U.S. flagging.  And now you know, SOME of the story.

  • AgentSteve

    I’ve read most of your comments; therefore, I find no need or value to retort. 

  • TonyA_says

    Based on what you wrote, one can conclude that NCL simply gamed the system and made a mockery of the PVSA (since the ship was not truly built in the USA). So why stop the gaming of PVSA there. Why do you object to the Indian family disembarking in Alaska and paying the $300 fine each and let them game the system, too? At least they won’t waste 5K+.

  • TonyA_says

    So just let them lose 5K+. For you that’s better.
    The fact is the fine is only $300 per. Read the law.

  • TonyA_says

    Travel Agents have a Duty to warn and inform, a Duty to investigate and warn and a Duty not to overpromise or misrepresent. By telling the OP that his Indian in-laws did not need Canadian tourist or transit visas, they failed on those duties.

    There is at least one similar case where the travel agency was held responsible for not telling their clients they needed a visa.

    Marsha B. Levin v. Kasmir World Travel, Inc., Defendant and Third-Party Plaintiff. Air France, Third-Party Defendant.

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3081662848363683568&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr

    Mr Kesavan, sue you travel agent.

  • Nancy Marine Dickinson

    This was several years ago (I left there in 1998 when my husband retired from the USAF) so you are probably correct.

  • Joel Wechsler

    Of course not, but he waited more than 6 months. It seems he might have found some time to deal with this in addition to caring for his wife.

  • Joe Farrell

    Well, if EVERY call that a ‘client’ of Chris is lost or ‘unavailable’ that would get pretty suspicious pretty quickly . . . 

  • Steve_in_WI

    I agree that it’s ultimately the passenger’s responsibility to make sure they have the appropriate travel documents. However, they should train their customer service representatives not to offer advice on what travel documents are required and to refer customers with questions to the appropriate governmental agency.

    IMHO, it’s ridiculous that they can offer (in this case faulty) advice to customers, then absolve themselves of all responsibility by pointing to their contract. My wife works for an incorporation company and they are very clear that they do not provide legal or financial advice. I don’t see this case as being much different than if someone at her company gave a client erroneous advice that they were unqualified to give, then shrugged and pointed to their disclaimer that they don’t provide legal or financial advice.

  • Jasper Nijdam

    While it’s the responsibility of the traveler to get the right visa, it’s the responsibility of the agent to make it abundantly clear to their customers that they need visas. The agent failed to make it extremely clear. I do not believe weaselly contractual language like “It is the Passenger’s sole responsibility to obtain and have available
    when necessary the appropriate valid travel documents. All Passengers
    are advised to check with their travel agent or the appropriate
    government authority to determine the necessary documents.” dismisses a vendor from its responsibility to check on a travelers documents. It is very easy to make provide standard information sheets for say Americans, green card holders and others. Americans visiting Canada needs this, green card holders that, and others need to check themselves.

    Now, OP is an idiot for not checking himself. But that does not mean he should loose the entire cruise.

    The best outcome would be if the cruise line would offer a rebook for a rock-bottom price, but more importantly, if the cruise line would update its information policy to its passengers.

  • http://twitter.com/prairie_girls Prairie Girl

    This is the same thing that happens to Canadians when they transit through the USA.  I fly from Canada to Mexico every now and then and always have to collect my bags and clear US customs and immigration when I change planes.  The positioning of US customs and immigration IN Montreal is- in my opinion- a courtesy, as it’s much more convenient for the relatively large number of people starting in Montreal and flying to the US, rather than the relatively small number of people coming from another country through Canada to the US. 

  • andrelot

    I think it is not the responsibility of a cruise line to check the inner works of a visa, but to the extent the cruise line is required to know about visa requirements as to allow (or deny) passengers boarding, they should have the obligation to inform the passenger on the olbigation of a visa.

  • Lindabator

    Travel insurance would NOT have covered this – which is why MY clients are made aware of the limits of their coverage, as well as items covered they may NOT have thought of.  I was sorry to hear this agent dropped the ball as well, as my first choice would be to go to a visa site for the info, NOT the cruise line.  The res agents there are NOT trained in documentation requirements – nor should they be.

  • Lindabator

    That is why I firmly believe the cruise line sales reps should NEVER give the information, even when clients complain they don’t want to have to call a consulate.  Then this problem would not occur, and they wouldn’t get slammed – because they DO take the time (the company) to put in print the responsibility to call for correct information from a consulate.  So, people – STOP ASKING THE CRUISE LINES!!!!!

  • Lindabator

    DEFINATELY does not cover this – and something I always warn clients about as well.

  • TonyA_says

    I completely agree. Why should cruise lines CSRs and airline agents and TAs have to be responsible for EVERY CHANGING visa and health requirements of COUNTRIES? We don’t earn enough money in the first place :-)

  • Lindabator

    But those ASSUME you are American/Canadian based on where it was booked!  If you don’t qualify, you are screwed!

  • Lindabator

    NOPE – only Norwegian Cruise Line’s Pride of America in Hawaii.

  • Lindabator

    ACTUALLY – they had to petition the State of Hawaii to get a dispensation, and agree to an American crew, andy and all future work on the ship is to be done in the US, and the pay scale, etc follows US codes.  As to the fine you keep mentioning, you are not quite accurate – the cruise line faces not only a fine for the actual person departing early, but also for not ensuring proper documentation in the first place, and if found guilty of multiple infractions, can lose their ability to operate the cruise in the Canadian ports at all – so far to much to lose for Princess.

  • Lindabator

    Not as simple as that in many cases – but yes, they did have plenty of time to ensure proper documentation, and then decide if the cruise was a good idea or not.

  • Lindabator

    Its not the decision of the cruise line, but of the foreign port – they need to clear everyone on the manifest, so all paperwork is needed for every body on board.  And travelling to a foreign country should be something folks pay attention to – it is no different than flying, and the restrictions on transits for foreign nationals on that topic have ALSO been discussed here – and the problems were quite interesting!

  • TonyA_says

    No Linda, I am making the cruise line not carry these pax to/via Canada. That’s why they will be disembarked in Alaska so as not to violate CANADIAN rules.

    IMO the Canadian transit points are placed as the last stop to [conveniently] comply with US PVSA. I suppose this family really does not care to see Victoria Island or some CAN port but would rather see whales and ice in Alaska.

    I am asking the Cruise lines to violate the US PVSA and pay the $300 fine (much like Fedex  violates [double] parking laws in many cities just to pickup and deliver your packages). Acutally, if the wife got sick in the cruise, she could have a valid reason to skip the rest of the cruise (disembark in Alaska) and the cruise line would not have to pay for the fine

    Of course it will never happen because Cruise lines are not flexible. But I’m just stating this as an option.

  • Lindabator

    But that would be ILLEGAL – the cruise lines (and its passengers) cannot just decide where they feel like having the correct paperwork or not, and to just avoid that stop or jump ship early to avoid it — you need the correct paperwork just to board.  And getting ill and being removed from a ship is a completely different situation.  Its no different than a US citizen sailing overseas – you can’t just decide to not get off a ship in Brazil just because you don’t have a visa – not having the visa would ensure you never got on the ship at all!

  • TonyA_says

    Oh sure, it’s as illegal as illegal parking. Maybe the more appropriate term is VIOLATIVE of the law. For as long as I can afford the $300 fine, then so what? That’s the same game played by rich people and corporations.

    Some laws can be broken without going to jail. This is one of them. Heck BP polluted the whole gulf, they just paid the fine and settled with the rest of the people who lost their livelihoods. Nobody was jailed.

  • AgentSteve

    It’s scarey to think that some folks, reading this blog, would take the advise of some of the bloggers.  Got to love the ones who rant on and on, about a subject they don’t work and study, everyday.  As you know, it’s our job to make sure the client is well informed as best as we can.  However, when they don’t give us ALL the facts and they also refuse to fulfill their responsibilities, it makes for a bad vacation.

  • http://www.myitaliantravels.com Mark Schaaf

    I think because the people selling the cruise tickets were telling people bad information they should be giving a refund. Because if any of than had said they didn’t know and that the people buying the tickets might check for themselves that the people going on the cruise would have had plenty of time to get what they needed. I guess I am luck because being from the US I have never needed any kind of visa when going to any of the places I have been. This also brings a question to mind which is where can someone go online to see which countries require travel visa’s from what countries. Could be a good article on a web site. 

  • TonyA_says

    What’s really scary is the OP said he talked to the Cruise Line and his travel agent did the same thing and that at both times they told him his folks did NOT need a Canadian Visa.

    If the cruise line itself cannot give him correct information over the phone then how can anyone like the OP trust any travel agent? How would he or they know who is right or wrong?

  • ravdibarbosa

     Upon booking the Cruise, each Passenger explicitly agrees to the
    terms of this Passage Contract. Upon receipt of the Cruise Fare, Carrier
    accepts the Passenger(s) named on the passage ticket for the Cruise
    subject to the terms of this Passage Contract.

  • Nadia

    This should ultimately fall on the travel agent. It is his/her job to pass along the requirements of the cruise line and countries. Also, what is the good of a travel agent who tells the customer to cancel and try to get a refund? That is the travel agent’s job to try to get that taken care of.