Holy water! Did Southwest mistreat passenger on a pilgrimage?

There isn’t much Val Maswadi and Southwest Airlines can agree on.

Here are a few facts that aren’t in dispute: Maswadi and her family were scheduled to fly from Chicago to Orlando this summer. They were coming from a religious pilgrimage in Saudi. In Chicago, they had a disagreement with a Southwest agent over jugs of holy water they wanted to check with their luggage. After an argument, Maswadi’s flight was involuntarily refunded.

(Note: And earlier version of this post suggested the family was on its way to Saudi.)

Maswadi says Southwest was “abusive” and insensitive to her religious beliefs.

“I was never able to get checked in, and had to delay my travel with a different airline the next day,” she says. “It cost me money, time, and a lot of heartache. It is a shame for Southwest to hire such individuals that can’t treat customers well — employees that are ignorant of other cultures and religions.”

Maswadi contacted me because she believed the Southwest agent with which she argued acted inappropriately. She says the agent wouldn’t let her check the holy water in her luggage and then, after arguing, removed her bags from the conveyer belt, refunded her ticket, and told her to fly on another airline.

What set the ticket agent off?

“I agreed not to check in the water but also told her, that her behavior will be reported as I wrote her name down,” she says. “At that time she got more angry. She decided I should find another airline.”

I asked her if she’d contacted Southwest in writing about this incident. It turns out she hadn’t. Here’s what Southwest had to say after she asked:

We received your e-mail and are sorry to hear that we have left you doubting our commitment to Customer Service. Thank you for giving us the chance to follow up on your concerns and to apologize for letting you down.

In researching you situation, we contacted the Chicago Midway Station (MDW). According to our records, we show that you never boarded Flight #1446. Rather, our MDW Lobby Manager advised that this incident occurred at the baggage check-in area. He went on to explain that you and your family were attempting to check in two 3-gallon unmarked plastic containers full of liquid. Our employees explained to you that the jugs of liquid could not be checked-in as baggage or taken on the plane as carry-on items because they were improperly packed. However, our Agents offered to hold the items for you to be picked up a later time, but they advised us that you declined our offer.

It is important to point out that Southwest Airline’s Contract of Carriage states that we may, at our sole discretion, chose to refuse to transport as checked baggage, items that are improperly packed. The reasoning behind this is that some items are not always able to withstand the shifting cargo loads associated with turbulence and weight distribution inside an aircraft luggage compartment during takeoff and landing. In these cases, if the containers were to get damaged, there is a high chance that their contents would spill out, potentially damaging other Passenger’s checked luggage. With this in mind, our MDW Employees refused to accept your plastic containers as checked luggage because they were not properly packed.

Additionally, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) maintains that all liquids must be in a 3.4 ounce bottle to be acceptable as a carry-on; Therefore, the liquids you attempted to check in would be unfit as carry-on items as well.

It is our understanding that the items in question held a strong religious value to you, and we are so sorry that we were unable to accommodate your request to transport them. That said, our MDW Manager also advised that your family was refused transportation due to their threatening and confrontational behavior. Our Contract of Carriage specifically cites our responsibility to deny access and/or transportation to any “person or persons whose conduct may compromise his/her own comfort and/or Safety or the comfort and Safety of others.” These provisions apply to any person or persons whose conduct is, appears, or has been known to be disorderly, abusive, uncooperative, offensive, threatening, intimidating, or violent. Our MDW Manager went on to advise that the local law enforcement was called in order to help mediate the situation. Since we did not provide you and your family with transportation, please know that your unused tickets have been refunded to the original form of payment.

We are saddened to hear of this unpleasant experience. Furthermore, I assure you that Southwest Airlines does not condone discrimination or prejudice in any form. In fact, a cursory view of our workforce, as well as our expansive, multi-cultural Customer base, is a reliable indicator that we exalt and appreciate diversity. Regardless of the circumstances, we care about the impression we leave on our Customers, and we want them to know that their complaints are taken seriously. I want you to know that the appropriate Leaders have been made aware of your concerns.

Again, we appreciate your taking time out of your day to let us know about your recent experience. We understand that you must do what you feel is necessary to achieve peace-of-mind about these events, but it is our hope that you will consider all perspectives before drawing your final conclusions about Southwest Airlines. Thank you for your patience and your patronage.

I asked Maswadi what she thought of Southwest’s rebuttal. She wasn’t impressed.

“I’m disappointed,” she told me. “I did follow the rules. The person at the counter just refused to hear me and roughly handled my luggage. She kept saying this is not because of your religion. And that statement in itself made me uncomfortable.”

I wasn’t present, so I don’t know what really happened. But the truth probably lies somewhere in between. Did Maswadi and her family get a little extra scrutiny because of their attire, which suggested they were devout Muslims? I can’t imagine that not being the case.

At the same time, having large jugs of liquid would be problematic, no matter what your appearance.

The takeaway for the rest of us: Don’t get into an argument with the ticket agent, if possible. And if law enforcement has to be called to mediate a dispute, don’t expect to fly that day.

Southwest refunded the ticket in the end, but refused to compensate Maswadi for additional expenses incurred because of the altercation.

  • Michael__K

    You claimed the OP didn’t respect a rule or respect and doesn’t respect “your culture”.

    And you haven’t shown either. Some day an airline employee or TSA employee might tell you that you can’t do something. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are right..

  • Ed Boston

    Not sure what is happening with the system but it is not accepting my replies.

    So, one last time. We are discussing if the OP and SWA reactions were appropriate for situation. The situation is the OP was informed the water did not meet SWA’s rules for acceptance as check-in luggage. We are not discussing how it didn’t meet the rule.

  • Michael__K

    Again, how does this demonstrate a lack of respect for your culture? That was where we started.

    How does this demonstrate a lack of respect for a rule when you can’t explain what packaging follows the rule and what packaging doesn’t? How do you know that the OP and her fellow passengers are held to a consistent standard (especially given that you obviously don’t even know what standard she was held to)?

  • TonyA_says

    Did you read this condition?
    Carrier will not accept Baggage that it determines cannot safely be carried in the Baggage compartment of the aircraft for any reason.

  • http://flyicarusfly.com/ Fly, Icarus, Fly

    If I’m reading the rules correctly, United is making a free allowance for holy water. There is no mention of “no scrutiny”. I’d think it’d be under the same safety regulations as anything else in checked baggage, be it 10 liters of zamzam water or 10 liters of shampoo. If you’re OK with pouring your chocolate milk into a jerry can, I think you indeed have found a loophole! (Otherwise the “Yoo-Hoo” labels might give you away…)

  • http://flyicarusfly.com/ Fly, Icarus, Fly

    Really interesting insight into the workings of border patrol. Please keep them coming!

  • JenniferFinger

    Good response from Southwest Airlines. Basically they’re saying that whether the liquid in question is holy water or crude oil or whatever, it has to be properly packed in accordance with the rules so it can travel safely, and the Mahwadis didn’t do that before they tried to board. That doesn’t sound like religious discrimination to me.

  • JenniferFinger

    Let’s keep the air cool and our tones civil here and not go back and forth in sarcasm and hostility, okay, guys?

  • technomage1

    Thanks for the update that she was flying from Saudi and not to it. Now things make a lot more sense. I don’t get why her luggage (water included) wasn’t checked through to her destination, but that my not have been possible.

  • TonyA_says

    James, here’s one for your photo collection.
    http://imagesofsaudi.blogspot.com/2011/06/zamzam-check-in.html
    Note that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia sells official 10 liter jerry plastic cans that pilgrim attendees can fill up with zamzam. But before they can check them in, the plastic container must be clearly marked as zamzam, wrapped around with plastic, and placed inside a leak proof bag. These services are provided at the airport for a fee. Finally, the zamzam water is checked in using another counter. See http://saudiblogs.tomotiki.com/?cat=100

    Only the zamzam water is free. The plastic jerry can, wrapping, and leak proof bag are not free. Saudi law requires this specific handling requirements for baggage handling..

    There is no mention of the OP’s checking in anything like the zamzam water I just described since she was required to label the two jugs.

  • Michael__K

    I’m ashamed of the assumptions being made about the OP throughout the comments.

  • bodega3

    I am siding with the employee.

  • GrantRitchie

    Well said.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UES4TUPI6NRPTG2DCB4YCX6R4U wyoming1949

    Another “subjective standard” is whether a customer is creating a “disturbance” or, in the case of flight attendants, “interfering with a crew member.” Based on media reports over the years it appears many airport police agencies feel that airline employees ALWAYS tell the truth and NEVER exaggerate! Perhaps the “safest” way to deal with airline employees is to say as little as possible and refuse all meal and other cabin service. The latter strategy I’ve found is effective in making a potentially “troublesome” flight attendant “disappear.” Finally, if the holy water was, really, that important to the OP, they should have had enough funds to have it shipped (by UPS) home.

  • Raven_Altosk

    I’ll be good.
    …or I’ll be good at it.

    :D

  • Raven_Altosk

    Sounds like they were going to Di$ney before Mecca. Maybe they needed to bless It’s a Small World? God knows that thing is like the seventh layer of hell…

  • TonyA_says

    SWA sells a wine bottle container for $5 each. So they are definitely preprepared for your wine bottle.

  • Michael__K

    And that’s projecting your biases on a situation where critical facts are unknown and in dispute.

  • mbods

    Everyone knows, in this day and age, you can’t expect to be allowed to carry or check, gallons of unmarked liquid onto an airplane. Come on…

  • TonyA_says

    Well Raven, you need to watch this BBC documentary about zamzam.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13267205
    Definitely eye opening!

  • Scott

    Raven, this comment reminded me of Disney World in the 70s when Eastern Airlines was still around and they have a similar “ride”
    (aka “place parents took kids to cool off when they needed a break) in Tomorrowland called “If You Had Wings.” It’s been 30 years since I’ve been on that ride, but I still remember that freakin’ song…..hard to forget, since it rivaled “Small World” for number of times the title was sung….over and over and over…..

  • Raven_Altosk

    But it is “religious!” Next time I get crap about my gun which is legal and legally packed–but some ticket agents are ignorant–I’m gonna shout religion.

  • bodega3

    It is pretty clear to me just by her letter. They didn’t know what they were doing, assumed because it was related to their religion that it would be acceptable. They learned a lesson…an expensive one. An employee isn’t going to take the step to refund a passenger without feeling very confident about the situation at hand. I have no doubt that the employee was fully aware of placing an employer in a place for a lawsuit and for losing their job. Did you ever watch the WN program? They get a lot of misinformed passengers on what can be checked, how to present one’s self and how to treat the carriers employees. As I told Flutie before, you couldn’t pay me enough to have his job.

  • Michael__K

    If I wanted to be provocative, I could write: “If you have to travel with an emotional support snake or with guns… you probably need to stay home.”

    Fact is, I respect your right to check a legal gun as baggage, even though I have no plans to exercise that right myself. Why can’t you show the same respect for your fellow passengers?

    You mention that you “get crap about [your] gun which is legal”, so clearly you don’t think that baggage agents are infallible. I’m sure Southwest baggage agents see a lot more checked guns than checked containers of holy water. If they are sometimes wrong with respect to guns, why is it so hard to imagine the **possibility** that they could have acted over-zealously with the OP’s holy water?

    If your gun was rejected by baggage agents at the airport — and your ticket was involuntarily funded — and you needed to buy a last minute fare on another airline to get home — and you complained to Chris — I for one wouldn’t ridicule you. I would want to know the facts. And if the facts supported your version and there was no genuine threat or danger to your fellow passengers, I would want to see you get reimbursed for that last minute fare you improperly had to pay.

  • Michael__K

    Bodega, what happened to:

    arm chair quarterbacking isn’t fair without ALL the details.

    http://www.elliott.org/the-troubleshooter/hey-wheres-the-rest-of-my-refund/#comment-672870552

    Do you only use that line in the defense of travel company employees?

  • http://flyicarusfly.com/ Fly, Icarus, Fly

    Interesting! Thanks! Before reading this post, I had never even heard of zamzam water… Live and learn!

  • http://flyicarusfly.com/ Fly, Icarus, Fly

    At this point, I think the onus is on the OP to send Chris photos of exactly how the “jugs” were packed. Certainly there are enough knowledgeable travel industry people who read this site to comment. Otherwise, the airline agent has the final say in this type of situation, I think.

  • Michael__K

    You mean we might want to get more facts? If you read through the comments most minds are already made up.

    I’d certainly like to know more about how the “jugs” were packed. *IF* the jugs were deemed proper to fly from Saudi Arabia to Orlando, then I don’t see why the onus should fall entirely on the OP. In that case, I think it would be a public service for Southwest to explain what sort of container/packaging it would have accepted and to explain the rationale for their differences from the international carrier(s).

    Yes, contractually the airline agent gets the final say. That doesn’t mean they should be above public criticism. According to Raven, “some ticket agents are ignorant.”

  • Michael__K
  • Michael__K

    Why wasn’t that proposed as an option then?

  • Raven_Altosk

    But my weapon is never packed incorrectly because I have a brain. I also don’t bring it where it’s not allowed–like NYC.
    Did someone pee in your cheerios today, bro?

  • Michael__K

    Then how dare you complain about ignorant ticket agents? If the ticket agents gave you “crap”, then you obviously didn’t pack them correctly, right?

    They all say they followed the rules and packed correctly, you and the OP. Why should we believe either of you?

  • Raven_Altosk

    By this theory, bong water could be considered “holy” and I don’t want that on my luggage, pal.

  • GrantRitchie

    Interesting video. Thanks for the link.

  • TonyA_says

    Anyone who is planning to check in approx. 6 gallons (or a lot) of liquid in a domestic flight inside the USA needs to understand that s/he will have a lot of explaining to do. The airline will obviously want to know what kind of liquid that is (i.e. is it corrosive?) AND will like to know if it is packaged in such a way that it will not leak AND IF IT LEAKS, is there a protective barrier or absorbent ?

    The way I read this story, the Southwest agent was just doing her job. She protected the company’s assets as well as the luggage of every other passenger from a potential spill. Even FedEx and UPS will not take water jugs if the shipper cannot show they will not leak. An unprotected water jug may not even make it through the sortation belt and diverters without exploding and its contents spilling all over.

    Here’s a youtube video of “acceptable” zamzam baggages being loaded in the belly of an airplane. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBnz3tmm5SM
    Note how the passengers freaked out when they saw how the ramp guys were treating their “holy” water.

    It’s too bad an argument ensued. But we already know which side will win that 101% of the time.

  • bodega3

    Yeah, I see that now.

  • TonyA_says

    Still does not make much of a difference since they were flying from Midway (MDW), Chicago to Orlando on a domestic flight. A lot of good an explanation about zamzam water would do inside the USA? Worse, argue about it.

  • jpp42

    Thanks for clarifying. In this case the anger makes a little more sense since one airline had already allowed the jugs. (Doesn’t justfiy her getting so outraged that the police had to be called however.)

  • Raven_Altosk

    That’s a sad story, but as a gun owner, I have to say you need to take responsibility for knowing the laws. That’s one of the first things they teach in the CHL permit classes.

    And, a quick google search is always good before going somewhere. Otherwise, I suggest people call the local police department and make sure their CHL is valid in the jurisdiction.

    But yeah. I never take my gun to NYC.
    (Oddly enough, I could take my skeet rifle…because those are allowed without problem. I could probably do more damage with it, too)

  • Michael__K

    needs to understand that s/he will have a lot of explaining to do.

    Was there any opportunity to explain? According to the OP’s version quoted by Chris, the agent “refused to hear” her attempted explanation.

    Southwest isn’t the only airline that wants to protect it’s assets and the luggage of every other passenger.

    They could have used this opportunity to explain to future pilgrimage passengers if their water would be accepted under any circumstances and if so how it should be packed to Southwest’s satisfaction. Looks like they declined to do that.

  • TonyA_says

    “Improperly Packed” – two words. End of discussion. Argue and you don’t fly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Simon-De-Lao/1432704819 Simon De Lao

    I am so tired of people cramming their superstitions down our throats and claiming some religious discrimination. Next time why not just “pray” for your deity to miraculously transport to your destination – or better yet, fly on Air Jesus or Allah Airlines, or maybe the best advice is to just stay home.