Can this trip be saved? They paid for 8 but they traveled with 12

Have you ever returned from a trip and said to yourself, “That could have gone better”? John and Betsy Salunek did earlier this year, when they got back from a tour of Israel with Gate 1 Travel.

A lot of things went wrong, including an unavoidable weather delay which added to the cost of their tour. But what really set the Saluneks off was the way Gate 1 merged their tour group with another one, which lowered the quality of their experience.

All of which raises the question: What does a tour operator owe you during a delay, even one for which it isn’t responsible?

Can the Saluneks’ trip be saved?

Here are the details from Betsy Salunek:

My husband and I are both clergy. Last winter we took a small group of eight people to Israel through Gate 1 Travel.

On the day of departure we had a big snowstorm. We called Gate 1 and emailed for two days prior to see if the trip was cancelled due to the pending storm. No response.

Finally, on the day of the storm, after being on hold for two hours, we were told by Delta to get to the airport as a group as that was the only way we could be helped. We all managed to arrive at the airport in Philadelphia as scheduled.

The best Delta could do was to get us scheduled the next day for the connecting flight at JFK the same day. We managed to find a wedding limo to drive us to JFK to connect with our flight to Tel Aviv, which cost $400 plus tip. Gate 1 told me via phone, if they had to call everyone affected by the storm they wouldn’t get anything done so there was no call and clearly, I bothered them.

OK, so a few things went wrong here. Gate 1 didn’t notify the Saluneks. It brushed them off when they asked for a reason. Then it basically abandoned them to find their own way to Tel Aviv. That’s no way to start a Holy Land tour.

On with the story.

Imagine our surprise when our group of eight people had four additional strangers added on to our group, two of whom were Jewish and unhappy that we wanted to see additional sites (non-religious in nature and at no extra cost). It seems for them, the issue was control. They wanted to be consulted about every additional site. My husband and I have taken 11 groups to Israel via Unitours and know many interesting things to see historically.

Our guide was excellent but Gate 1 gave no instructions. For example, the food plan we bought didn’t tell us what meals were included or what city. From France to the US, our airline seats were taken and reassigned. Our group was spread out all over the plane. I, for example, was in the last row, my husband in the middle of the plane.

I feel we were charged for a flight we couldn’t use and the additional people…our price was based on 8 people, not 12. Not to mention not even being consulted! I believe they owe my people the difference in price between 8 and 12 people.

Let’s take these one at a time. Gate 1 could have done better with the meal plan notification and certainly could have ensured the group sat together on the flight back home. But a look at its terms suggests there are only minimum group sizes. It is not immediately clear if they would have paid less for a group of 12.

The couple’s travel insurance covered the $400 limousine bill, but not the $80 tip. As for the extra members of the group, I wouldn’t be terribly surprised to find Jewish people on a tour of Israel. And I think it’s all a matter of perspective. If the Saluneks arrived late, then they were probably joining another tour. It is possible the four others felt inconvenienced, too.

Gate 1 offered the couple a $50 credit as an apology. They want more.

I’m undecided about this case, because I think most of what happened to these travelers was outside the tour operator’s control. Certainly, Gate 1 could have done a better job with notifying them of the itinerary changes, and they shouldn’t have been left to fend for themselves in New York during a snowstorm. But do they deserve a refund?

Here are the poll results. I ran this survey from about 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. on Labor Day.

(Photo i zahorsky/Flickr Creative Commons)

  • Kevin

    While is is very understandable to not be terribly sympathetic to the group here for some of the doubts you stated in the article, I think pressure should be applied for the following reasons.

    1. The agency thought it was unreasonable to connect with paying clients that might be affected by the winter storm. If they do not have the desire or ability to support their clients when severe weather or dramatic issues are happening, then what exactly is their role? It would be just as good to book it via internet if the agency is not interested in helping you when things go bad.

    2. The agency was rude with the client. I personally have a problem to pay someone to be rude to me.

    3. The agency left it to the customers to fight out the tour schedule and the sights visited. They had a tour guide on hand, they sold a bill of goods and clearly left the tour group with expectations. Your comment that the other clients were reasonable that they felt their tour schedule was disrupted is probably correct, but that should have been sorted by the company and the guide, not between the passengers.

    I do not think the agency owes MUCH more to the travelers, but I do think they failed just enough that they need the screws put to them. Maybe next time they will be more proactive and try to solve problems before they become bigger problems. That is their job, afterall.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    “If the Saluneks arrived late, then they were probably joining another tour.”
    - – - – – - – - –
    Since the Saluneks missed their first day of their tour, was it Day 2 of the tour for the group? In other words, did the tour guide took the other four passenger out the day before? If yes, then this was their group. If no, then their tour was rolled into a tour to save money for Gate 1 Travel.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    Since they flew one day later, did they lost one day of touring? If yes, did they received a refund for that day? It wasn’t disclosed in the article.

    “The couple’s travel insurance covered the $400 limousine bill, but not the $80 tip.”
    - – - – - – - – - – - – -
    Did they purchased this travel insurance from Gate 1 Travel or from a third-party? Based upon the webpage for the T&Cs for Gate 1 Travel, they sell Trip Protection Plan with their tours.

  • Cynthia

    I voted yes, not because I think the Saluneks deserve a full refund, but I think they should have received more than a $50 travel voucher. It sounds like Group 1 did a very poor job communicating, both to the Saluneks and to the tour guide and other service providers.

  • Jennifer

    I don’t see the problem with the 4 other people on the tour. The Gate1 website says “Prices are per person based upon shared twin room occupancy” so don’t know why the Saluneks would think that they paid more because of the 4 extra people.

    The Gate1 website also seems to describe tours with a fixed itinerary, led by a tour guide. I guess that the Saluneks expected, and had experienced in the past, that because it was just them and their friends on the tour, they could take over for the Gate1 tour guides and change the itinerary.

    The Saluneks said that the 4 additional people had “an issue of control” but I think the Saluneks are the ones with that issue. They say they have “taken 11 groups to Israel” and know all the interesting sights. If they wanted to be the ones in charge, they shouldn’t have signed up for what appears to be a tour that already has a tour guide and fixed itinerary, and that may have other people on it.

    The website says “You may find that you are traveling with a sizeable group or only with your own companions. Services, however, will remain constant no matter the number of tour participants.” (This is on the page linked to in the article.)

  • Jeanne in NE

    I’m confused. I couldn’t tell if the Saluneks were going to take the connecting flight (JFK to Tel Aviv) on the day they originally were going to take the flight or on one day after they were originally scheduled to go. There’s no mention of having to pay for an overnight stay in this complaint. What I got out of the story was that rather than waiting a day for the flight from Philly to JFK, the Saluneks rented a limo to get to NYC on the originally scheduled day, stayed overnight, then took the flight from JFK to Tel Aviv.

    If the Saluneks had taken many tours with Unitours, why did they switch to Gate 1? Did they assume that everything would be the same between travel agencies, or did they check details and then get surprised?

    I’m not getting that they arrived on Day 2. I am getting that they were surprised (unhappily) that their tour included people with whom they were not acquainted. That’s what happens when you go on a tour arranged by someone other than yourself.

    Lastly, I don’t consider it a terrible hardship to be separated from one’s spouse on a long flight. After many days of travel with the same person, I think a few hours of separation just don’t sound that bad.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    It is easy to be a Monday morning quarterback but I think that the Saluneks made an assumption that Gate 1 Travel will perform the same services as Unitours has performed for the Saluneks on their previous 11 group tours. Why didn’t they do another tour with Unitours?

    “…two of whom were Jewish and unhappy that we wanted to see additional sites (non-religious in nature and at no extra cost). “
    - – - – - – - – - -
    I think that the Saluneks had the wrong expectations about Gate 1 Travel. If you go to Unitours home page on their website, they specialize in customized tours for Christian pilgrimage groups and Catholic pilgrimage groups. If you go to Gate 1 Travel’s home page, it looks like a typical tour operator home page.

    The big question is did the Saluneks purchased a tour strictly for their group? Or was they were led to believe that the tour was strictly for them? It is my guess that they made assumptions based upon their experiences with Unitours and/or the sales rep for Gate 1 Travel said anything to get the business.

    It is my opinion that a traveler shouldn’t buy a tour directly from a tour operator. I think that a traveler should use the services of a professional brick & mortar travel agent. I think that it is a conflict of interest for Gate 1 Travel as well other tour operators to be the travel agent and the travel provider. It is the objective of Gate 1 Travel (as well other tour operators) to sell out their tours.

    I am wondering how many times that the sales reps at Gate 1 Travel has told a potential customer that they shouldn’t take a tour (i.e. a tour isn’t for everyone) or shouldn’t take a specific tour (i.e. an adventure tour isn’t for everyone)? I think that tour operators that don’t sell their tours through independent travel agents (either online or brick & mortar) are just asking for complaints because they have customers to go on tours that they shouldn’t. This story is similar to the story that Chris Elliott wrote about Overseas Adventure Travel-Grand Circle Travel (another tour operator that sells its tours directly to the public with its own sales reps) earlier in the year.

    Another thing, did the Saluneks research Gate 1 Travel? Gate 1 Ltd International Travel Services aka Gate 1 Ltd. (the legal name for Gate 1 Travel) is not a BBB Accredited business. Here is a link to their report, http://www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?national=y&compid=80003136. They have a ‘B’ rating from BBB and they had 36 complaints in the past 36 months.

    If you type Gate 1 Travel in Google, one of the pre-defined searches is ‘Gate 1 Travel complaints’. There are complaints on these websites: complaintsboard; pissedconsumer; my2cents; tripadvisor; frommers, etc. (I tried to post the links in my comments but must be a number of links restriction for this site).

    By the way, when you typed Unitours into Google, there isn’t a pre-defined search for ‘Unitours complaints’. When I did a Google search for Unitours complaints, I couldn’t find one. They have an ‘A+’ rating from BBB and they had 1 (one) complaint in the past 36 months. Hey, you can’t please everyone nor everyone reports a complaint but if Saluneks did some research, it is my guess that they won’t have selected Gate 1 Travel or would have gotten thing better defined in writing, etc.

  • Adam

    They seem to be confused- when one buys tickets for a tour through Gate 1, they do not buy an exclusive right to travel alone. It wasn’t a private tour guide, it was 8 spots on a tour.

    They also seem to have a hint of anti-semitism (although my guess is unconscious); what relevance is it that :two of whom were Jewish and unhappy that we wanted to see additional sites (non-religious in nature and at no extra cost).” If I were on a scheduled tour, I might be unhappy about diversions if I was expecting some down time, regardless of my religion or a lack of extra cost.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Jennifer: The question is did the Saluneks purchased a customized tour (the Saluneks\their group will determine the itineary) for the eight members of the Saluneks’ group or a packaged tour (fixed itinerary determined by Gate 1 Travel) where the 8 members of the Saluneks’ group will be combine with other travelers? According to the Gate 1 Travel’s website, they sell both packaged tours and customized tours.

    Based upon the complaints about Gate 1 Travel, I think that Chris should look into this matter to get to the bottom…so it can be determined if the Saluneks purchased a customized tour for their group of 8 and were combined into another tour OR they were ‘misformed’ and actually purchased a packaged tour.

  • Tanya

    I would like a bit more information before voting. First, was this a customizable group tour? Did they book as a group? If so, it looks like they were supposed to have an agent assigned to assist their group. And if they booked as a group were they informed that other passengers could be added? Did they book this as an exclusive group tour by paying a premium?
    Second, while I see the above comment and read the terms and conditions, if you can customize your group tour how or why did Gate 1 add additional travelers who did not have the same customization. But again, this depends on exactly what the OP booked originally and how they booked it. I.e. did they find it and just say, everyone go and make their own arrangements for these dates with this company? Or did they actually call/e-mail and get a group rate and group reservation?
    The terms and conditions also state that Gate 1 is not responsible for flights, delays, missed connections, etc. Which I find interesting, since you can book your flight through them . . . Even cruise lines if you book through them on flights will give some help.
    I am also a bit confused, if they made it to the airport, was their flight cancelled due to weather? Did they arrive late because of the weather? They did make it to the airport where they were originally supposed to leave from.
    Since the insurance paid for the limo cost (minus tip) I am not sure how much more they are owed. IF their original flight was cancelled (if they made it to the airport, then they should have made their flight) then the airline may owe them the difference of tip. Of course, that means a $10 refund to each of the group members.
    It does not sound like they missed a day of the tour because they ended up getting to JFK for their flight out.
    As far as the flight back and being separated. While this is not ideal, I am assuming each of the group members are over the age of 18 and fully capable of sitting by strangers. In fact, some people even enjoy meeting new people on flights. Things happen and this may have been out of Gate 1′s control.
    I am tempted to vote no, because the OP seems to have a laundry list of complaints. However, I am confused as to how the trip was booked? I noticed a link for group travel on Gate 1′s website and you have to call or e-mail for a quote. If the quote was for a group of 8 to these specific places, including the non-holy historic sites, and then Gate 1 added travelers that had not booked the same thing, then maybe Gate 1 does owe them more that $50. However, if they got to visit all of the places on their trip as planned, then I am not sure how they should be compensated.
    The OP’s recourse is to not use Gate 1 again.

  • Eric

    I’m interpreting the limo trip to mean their original flight out of Philadelphia was cancelled, so they hightailed it by road and caught their regularly scheduled flight out of JFK meaning they arrived on time in Israel for the start of the tour. Gate 1 should refund the flight for the portion they had to drive in cash, not a voucher. Also with the flight debacle, Gate 1 should have done a better job at communicating any delays/cancellations, especially considering Mrs. Salunek was proactive about trying to get this information.

    The “terms & conditions” page of Gate 1′s website clearly gives the impression that you’ll probably be touring with other people once you’re there. So while it might have been obnoxious to share the tour guide, and the people themselves might have been obnoxious, no refund is due here. I’m a little confused about the whole “control” situation. I’ve been on tours before and regardless of the company or luxury level they’re usually all structured the same: some sort of guided activity in the morning, free time after lunch to do whatever you want and perhaps some sort of post dinner group nightlife activity. Although it sounds like Gate 1 was disorganized in this department as well with the meal plan.

    Regarding not sitting together on the flight back, deal with it. I’ve had trouble on occasion finding just two seats together for my partner and myself when we travel, let alone a group of 8.

    I do think they should be recompensed more than just a $50 voucher, since I wouldn’t be using Gate 1 again if I were them. Gate 1 really dropped the ball in the communications department which lead to pretty much every problem on this trip. As I’m sure your other readers have discovered as I have, probably 95% of life’s problems can be avoided or quickly fixed if people just communicated.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Adam – “They seem to be confused- when one buys tickets for a tour through Gate 1, they do not buy an exclusive right to travel alone. It wasn’t a private tour guide, it was 8 spots on a tour.”
    - – - – - – - -
    Gate 1 Travel sells customized tours. The question is did the Saluneks purchased a customized tour (the Saluneks\their group will determine the itineary) for the eight members of the Saluneks’ group or a packaged tour (fixed itinerary determined by Gate 1 Travel) where the 8 members of the Saluneks’ group will be combine with other travelers?

    @ Adam – “They also seem to have a hint of anti-semitism (although my guess is unconscious); what relevance is it that :two of whom were Jewish and unhappy that we wanted to see additional sites (non-religious in nature and at no extra cost).”
    - – - – - – - – -
    Maybe these two individuals wanted only to spend their times at religious sites since there are several sites\attractions\etc in Israel are important to both Jews and Christians. Maybe these two individuals were told by their Gate 1 Travel sales rep(s) that the itinerary for the tour was strictly religious sites; therefore, they were ‘upset’ that the Saluneks wanted to go to non-religious sites. Maybe these two individuals were on a ‘personal pilgrimage’ or this was going to be their only trip to Israel and they wanted to spend all of their time at the regilious sites.

    It all comes down to the question of “did the Saluneks purchased a customized tour (the Saluneks\their group will determine the itineary) for the eight members of the Saluneks’ group or a packaged tour (fixed itinerary determined by Gate 1 Travel) where the 8 members of the Saluneks’ group will be combine with other travelers?”

  • Eric

    @ Arizona Road Warrior: Yes I think this question needs to be clarified before I can vote. On Gate 1′s group travel page it indicates you get a “Dedicated Tour Manager” and a “Personal Gate 1 Travel group coordinator”. If they had booked through this route it seems there might have been the expectation of the tour being just their group.

  • David H

    God works in mysterious ways. It’s easy to be religious when everything’s going well, but not so easy when things are going wrong. Maybe they should have appealed to a much higher authority.

    The tour operator could have done better, the Saluneks seemed to have misunderstood a number of differences between Unitours and Gate 1 (and did they change operator solely because of price?), and the weather didn’t help. I suggest chaling up to experience and suggesting they go back to using Unitours (who’ve they’ve apparently had many good experiences with).

  • Raven

    I voted yes on this one, even though I’m generally the cold-hearted member of this board. I think Gate 1 travel was rude to their clients and I’m questioning (as the others are) what exactly the clients were sold. If it was a private tour for the eight people, money back is in order. If it wasn’t a private tour…well, then, they just need to suck it up.

    Story time…
    A few years ago I took my wife on a trip to Rome and since she’s an art buff, I paid for a private tour guide to take us to the sites and focus on the things my wife wanted to look at. We often had unexpected guests during our tours who would just “join up” to listen to the guide. I didn’t have a problem with that until one couple and their obviously mentally ill adult daughter started tagging along. The wife constantly tried to interrupt our PRIVATE tour with her questions as her daughter babbled nonsense to herself making it hard for us to hear the guide. After about ten minutes of this and desperately trying to ignore them, I told them to leave as we were a private group. The wife was incensed that I dared to protect what I had paid for–but then my guide spoke up and informed her that if she’d like to book her services, she could call her office and offered a card. They left after that. I realize you can’t prevent people from listening in a public place, but you sure as heck can tell them to be quiet and not interrupt if you are paying for a guide service.

  • Jack Bauer

    $50 is a slap on the face! That’s why I voted “yes” on the poll. They should be compensated for all expenses resulting from the lost day of the tour, plus a pro-rated discount because of the lost day as well. Not a full refund, but not just pennies on the dollar. Let’s see if they’ll call them up next time! It’s so easy to just call and say, “well, you’re on your own because of the weather delay…” but they didn’t!

  • http://travelbooksreview.com Tom Brown

    Yeh, that can be nice Trip. It can be more enjoyable if you pay less and have more.

  • Kind of in the middle

    I agree with most of the comments as to why I voted yes. Clearly Gate 1 could have done a better P.R. job. Had they done so, I might have voted differently. Bottom line, gate 1 is not the type of company I would want to deal with. As one person above noted, I do not appreciated paying money to someone to be RUDE to me!
    Secondly, a number of people have questioned whether a exclusive tour or a potentially larger group tour was purchased. Clearly, from the Saluneks’ viewpoint, they thought they bought an exclusive tour. If that were not the case, then Gate 1 should have effectively communicated that information up front.

    Elliot, as Israel is one of the places I want to visit in the near future, you have done a good job of conveying some of the potential pitfalls to avoid and most importantly, which tour company to avoid!

  • Kind of in the middle

    Forgot to mention, the other agravating issue: $50 travel voucher with Gate 1. They have really offered nothing, but an insult. I doubt for $50 in savings any of the party would ever use them again. Why not a $50 refund to each member of the party, not one $50 voucher?

  • http://www.thetravelinggiraffe.com Crissy

    I voted yes. However, it’s only a yes if they booked a private tour.

    I think all of their other complaints are relatively minor and not necessarily under the control of Gate 1. And if it was a group tour then suck it up if everyone else doesn’t want to do the same thing as you. You save money on a tour by giving up some of your own freedom. But I do think a $50 vouchers is a joke for the bad service they got, but I don’t think it’s worth it for you to take this further to get them a little more money, which is all I think they’re entitled to.

  • Bill

    I am thinking that organized tours get changed a lot. My parents have been on many Trafalgar tours and have been extremely happy with them.
    I went on a one day tour with my wife. It was out of London, UK..it went to Stratford-upon-Avon, Oxford and the Cotswolds. I bought the tickets through Expedia. I phoned the tour company 24 hours before as directed to arrange a pick-up. They didn’t come. Our concierge phoned and directed us to take a taxi to Victoria station, for which we were reimbursed.

    We were then “walked” over to another tour company. They explained that in the “off peak” season, they did not run their own tours and that we’d be going with another company. This was not disclosed to us at the time of ticket purchase – yet obvously known by the tour operator.

    They also stated that this other tour company had a stop on their tour at Anne Hathaway’s cottage but since it was not included in our inventory, we would have to either wait it out or pay our own admission to the cottage.

    We didn’t complain about this and we did pay the extra fee to go to Anne Hathaway’s cottage. The tour guide was absolutely fantastic – a “Blue Badge” tour guide who was very personable and made the trip quite pleasant.

    We left him a significant tip – for him and his driver. Although there were some “screw ups”, they were not made by the company that delivered our tour, just the company we paid. Our solution would be to in future book with the company that actually delivered the tour and not the one we originally booked with.

    This tour to Israel sounds like it wasn’t disastrous but not ideal either.

    I think that a loss of future business is what should be meted out.

  • Charles

    I say no, if only because of this line:

    “It seems for them, the issue was control. They wanted to be consulted about every additional site.”

    Tours are a zero sum game. If you visit some additional site, you won’t visit something you were originally scheduled to visit. Had I been one of those four tourists, I would have been incensed that a group could come in and hijack my tour for their own interests. AND, then them call me a control freak? These people are rude and obnoxious. I think they may have been wronged by the lack of support on the flight over and if (big if) they paid for a private group tour. But, they lost their chance when they chose to be jerks to four completely innocent people.

  • andi330

    @Charles

    You are not necessarily correct. Many tours have built in time slots which can be used as down time or for optional side trips. Generally speaking, if part of the group decides to opt for a side trip, it is not mandatory for the remainder of the group. We would have to know specifically if they were trying to change sites, or if they were adding optional side trips.

  • Lisa S

    I voted yes. It seems that the Saluneks believed they had purchased a private, customized tour. If they hadn’t, why would they complain about extra people? Gate 1 did a lousy job of communicating with the Saluneks and their group and should have offered much more than a $50 voucher–which, as others have noted, is unlikely to be used given the poor service Gate 1 provides.

    Thank you, Chris, for writing this piece. Travel Zoo frequently offers trips by Gate 1, and I have often wondered what kind of company it was. Now I know: a company to be avoided.

  • http://www.flyingwithfish.com Steven Frischling

    Chris,

    I said no, but that said, I’d like to see the contract’s terms of service the Group had with the Tour Operator.

    Without reading the terms the group had agreed to it is really hard to make an educated decision.

    Happy Flying!

    -Steven Frischling

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Bill – “I am thinking that organized tours get changed a lot. My parents have been on many Trafalgar tours and have been extremely happy with them.”
    - – - – - – - – -
    My wife and I have been tours and the only changes that we have encountered were the hotels. Trafalgar tours are ‘packaged’ tours; however, Saluneks believed that they had purchased a private, customized tour. There is a big difference between a packaged tour and a private, customized tour.

    @ Bill – “We were then “walked” over to another tour company. They explained that in the “off peak” season, they did not run their own tours and that we’d be going with another company. This was not disclosed to us at the time of ticket purchase – yet obvously known by the tour operator.”
    - – - – - – - -
    This is very common. Also, it is very common for tour operators to have contractors or sub-contractors to run their tours not their employees…some times it is for tax purposes, some times it is that the tour operator doesn’t want to spend the time and money to build up their operations in that country.

    It is my recommendation to only purchase tours where the tour director is an employee of the tour operator. There are some tour operators that tout this fact about there tours. It is more likely that a tour operator will inspect its people than its sub-contractors.

    It is my point that tour operators should disclose if the tour will be operated by a third-party (i.e. another tour company, a sister tour company, contractors, sub-contractors, etc.)

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Charles – “Tours are a zero sum game. If you visit some additional site, you won’t visit something you were originally scheduled to visit. Had I been one of those four tourists, I would have been incensed that a group could come in and hijack my tour for their own interests.”
    - – - – - – - –
    That is assuming that the tour was a regular packaged tour NOT a private group tour as the Saluneks claimed.

    @ Charles – “AND, then them call me a control freak? These people are rude and obnoxious. I think they may have been wronged by the lack of support on the flight over and if (big if) they paid for a private group tour. But, they lost their chance when they chose to be jerks to four completely innocent people.”
    - – - – - – -
    How about paying for a private customized tour and ended up with an off-the-shelf package tour? To call the Saluneks rude and obnoxious without talking to these four passengers or without you being there is unfair.

    I think that Chris should investigate to see if the Saluneks purchased a regular packaged tour or a private, customized tour.

    Until we get all of the facts, here are my theories based upon Saluneks purchasing\requesting a private, customized tour:

    1) The Saluneks contacted Gate 1 Travel. They purchased a private, customized tour. Due to the delay of their flight and/or being the off season, four passengers that purchased a regular packaged tour was rolled into the Saluneks’ private, customized tour. Gate 1 Travel didn’t want to contract for two tour guides.

    2) The Saluneks contacted Gate 1 Travel. They requested a private, customized tour but were sold a regular packaged tour without their knowledge.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Raven – “A few years ago I took my wife on a trip to Rome and since she’s an art buff, I paid for a private tour guide to take us to the sites and focus on the things my wife wanted to look at. We often had unexpected guests during our tours who would just “join up” to listen to the guide.”
    - – - – - – - – - -
    We had the same problems when we were in Italy. However, our Tour Director and the local tour guides that were conducting the local tours told these people that this was a private tour and to burger off.

  • Charles

    There are many here who assume that they bought a private tour and that Gate 1 added people without their consent. I see zero evidence to support that. First, they never say that purchased a private tour. I’m sure that if they had specifically purchased a private tour they would have clearly specified that in the email, since it would have to have cost a lot more than a regular tour. Second, go to the Gate 1 site. It takes 15 people for a Gate 1 private tour. I think the Salunek’s assumed this was a private tour because they had what they considered a large group and we all know what “assume” means, right?

    I don’t need to be there to recognize that the Salunek’s were rude. It’s clear from their letter that a) they felt they knew best what to see irregardless of any local tour guide, b) the other tourists felt they deserved a say and where clearly “unhappy” and c) the Salunek’s did not think they deserved any say and chose to insult them with that obnoxious “the issue was control” comment.

    @andi330 if the issue was just taking side trips during down time and the trips were optional, the other tourists would have no reason to care. They were clearly impacted and had veto ability on these extra trips, so they must have impacted they and they must have been non-optional if taken.

    Didn’t everyone also notice the “two of whom were Jewish” comment? If that made sufficient difference to them that they chose to point it out, what does that say about them?

  • http://www.cutcat.com ChelseaGirl

    If Gate 1′s group travel page says you get a “Personal Gate 1 Travel group coordinator,” clearly the company did not follow through on that at all, since there was no communication before the trip and the company didn’t lift a finger to help them.

    However, certain things they complained about are minor. “The food plan we bought didn’t tell us what meals were included or what city”–well, how about asking them before you buy? Not sitting together on the plane is not a big deal. And as far as the flight from Philadelphia to New York, airlines don’t give refunds for flights canceled due to snowstorms.

    I don’t think there is anti-Semitism involved. Although many of the sights in Israel would be of interest to anyone, there are some sights that might only interest Jews and some that might only interest Christians. Religious Jews will not go into a church, for instance. Putting them together in the same group…maybe not such a hot idea.

    The Saluneks don’t say if they actually missed certain sights
    due to the conflicts. I think that’s an important point in determining whether they get anything. If they didn’t see a bunch of places because of the other travelers, that might be worth compensation. If it’s just a question of some whining that went on during the trip, then no.

    The Saluneks aren’t asking for a refund; they are asking for the “difference in price between 8 and 12 people.” But I doubt there would be much of a difference, if any, with only four more people involved.

    Here is the bottom line: The overall quality of the trip itself–other than the friction between the main group and the smaller group–doesn’t seem to be at issue. They received a guide-led tour, saw lots of sights, they didn’t complain about the hotels or the food…they more or less got what they paid for. The weather can’t be controlled and they are out of pocket only $80 for the limo ride. Gate 1 did not give them the promised travel coordination– is that worth more than the $50 voucher they got? Since they probably won’t use Gate 1 again, it’s not worth anything at all. If there’s a difference in the price between a tour with 8 people and a tour with 12 people, they should receive the difference. If there is no difference, perhaps $200 (they don’t say how much they paid per person) would compensate them for the inconveniences. I can’t see it being more than that.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Tanya – “The terms and conditions also state that Gate 1 is not responsible for flights, delays, missed connections, etc. Which I find interesting, since you can book your flight through them . . . Even cruise lines if you book through them on flights will give some help.”
    - – - – -
    That is why I think that you should never book a tour from a tour operator because it is a conflict of interest; they are not acting as your travel agent; etc. If you read the complaints at complaintsboard; pissedconsumer; my2cents; tripadvisor; frommers, etc; there are several about the lack of customer service that Gate 1 Travel did NOT provided to their customers when there were flight changes, flight problems; etc.

  • Carver

    @Charles

    Didn’t everyone also notice the “two of whom were Jewish” comment? If that made sufficient difference to them that they chose to point it out, what does that say about them?

    ——————————

    Pointing out someone’ ethnicity, religion, race, etc. may or may not be appropriate. It depends on the context and the relevance.

    I have never taken a tour of the Holy Land, but it doesn’t stretch my imagination to believe that Christians, Jews, Muslms, and non-religious folks would tour the Holy Land differently, having different expectations and desires given the thousands of years of religous history in that area.

    Several friends of mine toured the Holy Land. They specifically went on a tour of the sites of the Churches described in the Book of Revelation. Such a tour holds interest primarily for Evangelical and Pentecostal Christians. A non-Christian would probably be bored to tears. In such a tour, one’s religion is relevant to the tour and appropriate to mention.

  • Raven

    @Arizona:

    Yeah, we had one guide at Hadrian’s Villa that worked hard to keep people from interrupting our private tour. The one I mentioned above took us to the Vatican, Borghese Gallery, and a few other sites. As I said, it wasn’t particularly troublesome to have “eavesdroppers” until that couple and their adult mentally ill “child” showed up. They were downright rude and the “child” could not be quiet for an instant. Way to ruin everyone else’s time, especially when you’re an uninvited guest, people.

  • sam

    I tried to pick out some of the highlights to be considered:

    *Gate 1 merged their tour group with another one, which lowered the quality of their experience
    1-Tour Operators do on occasion “merge trips”, this is due to lack of participation. Otherwise their total costs would rise.
    2- On the given date. I really doubt that by adding 4 additional people to a group 8 would lower the quality of service. If 10 person or more were added then I could see a problem develop with Hotel and transportation.

    *Gate 1 told me via phone, if they had to call everyone affected by the storm they wouldn’t get anything done so there was no call and clearly, I bothered them.

    1- This is a valid response from a Tour Operator ONLY if the “clients” did not purchase the Airline tickets though the Tour Operator, in this case Gate 1.
    2- What makes the Saluneks believe that a tour would be canceled in Israel when a snow storm is occurring 5600 miles away? They did not purchase an “Exclusive Private Tour” for their 8 people.
    3- If the did contract for an Exclusive Private Tour THEN and only then, do they have a valid issue to raise.

    *The couple’s travel insurance covered the $400 limousine bill, but not the $80 tip.
    1-There have been many posts about the pros and cons of having travel insurance on this site. I am glad to read these people purchased travel insurance, yet I wonder.
    1- Why the Tip was not reimbursed? I assume because it’s possible they did not have a receipt. The Tip receipt should have been itemized, within the claim. This is a valid issue to dispute with the Trip insurance firm. Their trip was after-all delayed by of 12 hours.
    2- They missed the first day of their trip, due to the flight delay. That pro-rated cost should have been factored into the trip insurance claim.
    Yet they want a pro-rated reimbursement because 4 additional people “joined” their little….I cannot think of anything polite to say… ( due to an ethnic slur this clergy couple felt compelled to voice )

    *For example, the food plan we bought didn’t tell us what meals were included or what city…..
    That was addressed my another post, but to restate, why would anyone pay for something and not know what they are receiving? If you purchased a meal plan I am sure it was spelled out….Breakfast each day, which is normal to have in Israel, 4 lunches 5 dinners.
    That should have been printed on the Invoice they received.

    * The flight..and that they lost their seat assignments “if they actually had one”
    How on earth do they feel they were charged extra for a flight?
    Did the airline ask them for additional payment? If they paid an additional collection then that also should have been added on the Trip Insurance Claim form ?

    There are a few other interesting issues and I question the validity of the total story.

    They had a bad experience with Gate 1 and they learned a lesson. Yet it will be interesting if the folks at Unitours picks this up and will continue to work with this couple.

    One last clarification.
    A “Tour Operator” is a organization that contracts with Land and sometimes Air arrangements for specific destinations: Gate 1, Unitours and several other Tour Operators offer Trips and Tours for traveling in Israel.

    A “Travel Agency and or Travel Agent” works with the client to help decide which “Tour Operator” will best suit their desires. A Travel Agency CAN and does “block group space” with both established Tour Operators and Cruise Lines.

  • http://www.roamingtales.com Caitlin @ Roaming Tales

    It definitely matters if it was a customized tour or an ordinary group tour. If the former then you should mediate and if the latter then you should not. Simple.

    (PS If some of your readers had their way, you’d never mediate anything!)

  • Sebastian

    I dont think there is anything that can be done in this case. The dissatisfaction has multiple sources, just some of them emerge from the handling of this whole situation through Gate 1. Their communication might suck – that is unfortunate but nothing that entitles the customer to a refund. We don’t know what they actually purchased so it is difficult to say if adding another 4 people to the group is legitimate or not, there will always be disagreement of a certain extend when you travel with other people. Be it your partner, family not to talk about people you just met.

    The situation at the airport, well what can I say… The solution does not sound too terrible considering we are talking about Delta. Especially for a group of 8 people who probably did not even have Elite Status with SkyMiles. Getting seats on such a journey after a cancellation during a snow storm is EXTREMELY fortunate. I could tell about a dozen situations where the group could kiss their trip goodbye.

    Not sitting together on a plane are minor cosmetic issues in this case, the transfer to JFK with the Limousine has been covered by the insurance. 80$ Tip… I mean there were 8 people, if you cant afford 10$ to get out of such a situation you should probably not travel overseas or negotiate with the driver to add it to the reciept.

    I would have voted ‘No’ on the poll as well. The 50$ Voucher might be worthless as they probably might not want to use Gate 1 again. Chalk it off under ‘life experience’ and next time do better research or stick to the company you are already happy with. Why changing in the first place ?

    I also don’t see anti-semitism as an issue here. People, get over yourselves. No clue why not even a discussion on here can be conducted without pulling the religion card.

  • Adam

    Sebastian: “I also don’t see anti-semitism as an issue here. People, get over yourselves. No clue why not even a discussion on here can be conducted without pulling the religion card.”

    Christian travelers go to Israel, on a secular tour, which they compare unfavorably to their Christian bible tour, and then point out that 2 Jews were on their tour and were “controlling” because they didn’t want to go where the Christians did.

    As I said, maybe not conscious antisemitism, but the fact that they had to raise the other visitors’ religion is odd. Moreover, its not *us* who raised religion, but the Saluneks, pointing out dem pushy, controlling Jews.

  • barbie45

    This as other posters commented is quite confusing. Having been on several organized tours with Globus and Tralfager there is an itinery for each day. There might be hotel changes usually the same category. Also depending on safety factors changes . Meals are itemized also. I does seem the tour guide allowed two people to cause friction on this trip. My husband and I rather than visit catacombs and some churches in Italy without any fanfare decided to vist the ghetto in Venice and the synagogue in Florence on our own. Personally on a group tour you do sacrifice quite a bit of self-autonmy. The issue is was their a set itinerary or no real itinery or not. If the majority 8 were Christian their sites would have for the most part quite different from a Jewish majority. These two must have realized they were traveling with 10 others whose interests were not the same. It was their responsibity to complain to Gate One. Ifor one say that on atour the majority rules. These two caused considerable friction which should havebeen dealt with by Gate One. This causes embarrassment for the the Saluneks who organized the tour. Also let us stop being so politically correct. Yes they should receive some additional compensation for Gate One ‘s failure to mediate this dispute. I have also been to the Holy Land and their are sites which would be of little interest to a predominately Christian group.

  • http://naoma@cheerful.com Naoma Foreman

    Just their attitude put me off. Travel is not always smooth. I’ve
    been traveling for many years. Sometime with groups and sometime alone. They were CLERGY. Could not help but
    see a “red flag” when they MENTIONED “JEWISH.” Sorry, but
    that smacks of a bit of “prejudice.” Glad I was not one of
    the EXTRA people traveling with them. I vote “no” on saving
    this trip.

  • Geoff

    99.9% of the “we have taken x number of groups to Israel” are doing so because they are traveling for free! I have seen 4 free travelers in a group of 10 which means 1 thing; the paying passengers are paying a ton more per person to offset the freebies. The most chronic complainers on Clergy run tours are the Clergy, because free is not enough. Weather is an act of (excuse me) God and there is no tour company or airline that cna do a thing about it. Take out insurance for the trip interuption / delay coverage. Did the Saluneks use a travel agent or just call Gate -1 directly? Gate -1 is a very decent company, but I bet the clients never priced an exclusive group. A travel agent would have known to ask for that. The world of clergy pseudo travel agents is very dangerous; they can pass the blame and nobody will dispute them.

  • Ginny

    I had a problem with Gate 1 several years ago on a river cruise tour from Budapest to Prague. First, the departure date was changed and we weren’t notified until I happened to go in and check our invoice. No one picked us up at the airport as our flight was delayed. Lastly, we tried to book an optional tour before the trip. It did not show up on our invoice. When asked about it, Gate 1 said we would be able to book it on the tour, which we did BUT it cost more at that time than it would have if we had booked it before we left.

  • Sonia

    Okay. Here’s my two cents:

    1. It’s not clear — as many have stated — that the Saluneks booked a private tour. I’d be interested in why they switched from Unitours if they’d led 11 groups before.

    2. The first sentence in the letter is “My husband and I are both clergy”. Yeah, so? You’re still tourists who may or may not be paying for a tour (if what Geoff says is true). Do they expect to be treated differently than, say, school teachers who organized a group of 8 on a tour? I fail to see how being clergy impacts this situation, except that it obviously colors the way that the Saluneks feel they should be treated.

    3. Was Gate1 lousy in communicating? You bet. In this age of immediate communication from anywhere in the world, ignoring a paying customer for 2 days is inexcusable. Even if Mrs. Salunek was rude (which I have a feeling she may have been, from the tone of her letter), she’s the customer. She has the right to expect courtesy, even if she’s not being courteous herself.

    4. Anti-Semitism: you betcha they’re being anti-Semitic. Even if Gate1 did violate a contract (IF a private tour was contracted) and added “strangers”, what difference would the newcomers’ religion make? As clergy, wouldn’t you expect the BEST behavior from them, leading by example? Instead, they point out that the Jewish tourists didn’t want to do what their group of 8 did. Why not just say “2 of the 4 didn’t want to go on extra side trips”? Because the non-Jewish strangers evidently gave the Saluneks the treatment that clergy evidently expect and didn’t make waves.

    I’m chiming in too late for the poll, but I’d say no, don’t mediate without finding out if indeed the Saluneks contracted for a private tour for 8.

  • Carver

    @Sonia

    You are making a ton of assumptions which show more of your own biases.

    The clergy remark is clearly merely by way of background information. Israel is a favorite destination of many Christians. It’s no more telling than two people saying “We’re Catholic and we wanted to see the Vatican, or I’m African American and I wanted to see some Civil Rights sites. ”

    Based on your unsupported conclusions about the Saluneks you then decided that the Jewish members didn’t treat the Saluneks with “the treatment that clergy evidently expect” And thus accuse them on anti-semiticism.

    In today’s society, being branded a racists, sexist, (insert favorite -ism) is to be made a pariah. We should be very careful before using these terms lest the impact loses its power.

  • barbie45

    Sonia and Naoma, please stop using the religous card. We are still not clear about whether or not it was an customized tour or just a an escourted tour. After reading a typical itinerey from an escorted tour to Israel meals and itinery are clearly stated. Personally I would not optfor a tour of any country, Israel included which said they were a religious tour period. That is just me. However, had I found myself on that tour I would have just shut up and done my own thing. Without a firm tour guide the majority rules. These two were pushy and arrogant no matter what faith they were. We should not generalize about the clergy. Maybe they did receive church contibutions maybe not. Once again had I been forced into that situation I would have just shut up.do my own thing and allow the majority to rule rather than antagonize everyone else.

  • Mike Z

    Just to put my $.02 in, but ANY tour operator who would plan tours of religious sites should find out beforehand if religion will be an issue. In that area of the world you have several groups claiming ownership of land and you have different areas of importance for each as well. Because of this, I do believe the tour operator should refund a portion of the tours.

    I also think that if the OP felt that it should be mentioned in print what their religion or vocation was that they probably also spoke of this with the person/people who booked the package for them through the company and were probably reassured that they would indeed be able to do these few extra sites they planned.

    As to things like the limo, and the meals, well that is a huge breakdown in customer service. As I read it, the meal vouchers were given, but nobody knew where they could use them. The travel company should most certainly have made the venues well known.

  • Jennifer

    The Saluneks had a few valid complaints but they were lost in all the minutiae. As recognized by the other commenters, the most important issue was never determined– whether the Saluneks purchased a customized tour for their group of 8 and their group alone. If not, their complaints regarding the content of the tour are baseless.

    What was clear from their letter was that the Saluneks wanted to control the tour. They write, “[we] had four additional strangers added on to our group, two of whom were Jewish and unhappy that we wanted to see additional sites (non-religious in nature and at no extra cost). It seems for them, the issue was control. They wanted to be consulted about every additional site. My husband and I have taken 11 groups to Israel via Unitours and know many interesting things to see historically.”

    I find this quote hysterically ironic and shows that the Saluneks are totally lacking in insight. First, it really was unnecessary to mention that two of the four “strangers” were Jewish. Secondly, the control freaks here were the Saluneks. Imagine that you join a tour with a published itinerary and another member of that tour wanted to change it. If this was not a customized tour, I would be one of those Jewish tourists upset about the change in plans. I couldn’t care less that my fellow tourists were self-professed experts. I want the trip I purchased and I expect the tour guide to be the expert.

  • DJP

    When going through tours they are making a profit on it so you are paying extra so you dont have to take care of everything. That is the job of a tour company.

    PArt of the job of the tour group is to handle flight delays so the airlines involved know they are a group together and respect them as such.

    The one part I am confused on is the tour group size and what happened..were they attatched to a new tour group because of their delay? Did they book a tour expecting just their group and the company failed to disclose that it was really going to be them and another tour group together. If so then this may very well be misrepresentation. Since this was a trip with soem religious experience they should take this into account when booking groups because in a place like Isreal with religious signifigance you should take into account the religion of the group because there are different sites they may want to see because of their own faith.

    I do think they owe them some compensation for the poor customer service. Say a 10% refund plus a discount on future tours through them.

  • Sonia

    @Carter Everyone shows their biases, including you. I can see why, thanks to your point, they told Chris they were clergy. Fine. But then why didn’t you explain why the Saluneks felt the need to identify the unwilling strangers as Jews? As Jennifer pointed out, many people, regardless of religious preference, who payed for a tour with a set itinerary would be upset if someone tried to change it.

    @barbie45 I was responding to the question of anti-Semitism, not playing the religion card. Sadly, the religion card gets played whether we like it or not. Look at the Florida pastor who threatened to burn the Quran on 9/11. Religion is perhaps the biggest division amongst people, possibly second only to race, simply because we can see the color of someone’s skin and we can’t see how someone chooses to worship if they’re not wearing an emblem of their religious choice.

  • Cole

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