Can this trip be saved? Salvage my “absolutely horrifying” cruise, please

Spend a little time on a cruise ship, and you’ll notice how germ-phobic the seafaring class seems to be. From the ever-present dispensers of Purell hand sanitizer, to the employees offering antiseptic towelettes at the all-you-can-eat-buffet, they look as if they could show Howard Hughes a good time.

Well, there’s a reason for that: Norwalk virus, a painful gastrointestinal illness, also goes by the name Cruise Ship Sickness. Cruise lines like to blame passengers for bringing the illness on board. Passengers say it’s employees, some of which may still have third-world hygiene, who are at fault.

Joe LoTempio is one of those customers. He just returned from a seven-day cruise on the Carnival Valor — an experience he calls “absolutely horrifying” — and is looking for help salvaging his vacation.

It all started when LoTempio and his girlfriend embarked on the Valor and headed to lunch at Rosie’s Restaurant. Shortly after that, his girlfriend began feeling ill.

“Within the hour she experienced severe vomiting and diarrhea, and by the evening she was so violently ill that we had to place an emergency call to the medical facilities,” he says. “She was so weak by that time that we had to call for a wheelchair to take her down to Deck 0 because she couldn’t make it under her own power.”

Then things got worse.

She remained in our cabin, miserable and unable to enjoy any aspect of our vacation, until the third day of our cruise. While she suffered in our room, my choices were to remain with her and do nothing or wander the ship in search of fun.

Unfortunately, I could have no fun knowing my girlfriend was sick and confined to the cabin, missing our very expensive Caribbean cruise.

Finally, the nightmarish illness ended for her and she was cleared to leave the ship just in time to see Grand Cayman. But then I became ill with the very same symptoms. I suffered for another two days, making our stops at Grand Cayman and Isla Roatan just as miserable as our first two days on the Valor.

In short, it was seven days of misery for the unlucky couple.

It is crystal clear that the illness she suffered and then transferred to me came directly from the food she ate at the lunch buffet on the first day of the cruise and is due entirely to the negligence of someone on the Valor’s kitchen staff.

We were both in perfect health immediately before boarding the Valor. It is not a coincidence that she became ill mere hours after her meal at Rosie’s Restaurant.

Do they have any recourse? Probably not under Carnival’s one-sided cruise contract (and to be fair, all cruise contracts are one-sided). Section 12 implies it may be liable for a passenger’s illness, under certain circumstance, but fails to describe when it’s on the hook for a sick customer.

There’s some precedent for receiving a full refund. Two years ago, a cruise ship in Britain suffered a massive norovirus outbreak. Passengers got their money back.

I’ve also mediated cases where passengers eventually received a full refund by way of a credit card dispute.

LoTempio sent an email to Carnival, describing the couple’s ordeal at sea. They received the following email from the president’s office:

We regret learning that you both became ill during your cruise. Please know that on any one sailing there are always going to be a number of guests who report to our medical facility with gastro-intestinal symptoms of one type or another.

When they do, our staff does everything possible to prevent any further spread. Nevertheless, we did take the liberty of doing a little research and while there were some reports of illness on this sailing, we have no indication that it was from the food or water.

Much as we’d love to offer you a free cruise, illness is not something we compensate guests for. The next time you sail with us, you may like to take out our Cruise Vacation Protection Plan which is a safeguard against situations like this.

That’s an interesting response.

I read LoTempio’s letter to Carnival, and nowhere in it does he ask for a “free” cruise. I’m also a little troubled by the “no indication” claim. Did Carnival ask an independent third party, like the Centers for Disease Control, to investigate — or is it just saying it was clean?

Also, I’m doubtful about the company’s claim that its own “protection plan” would have helped the couple in any meaningful way, other than possibly covering some of their medical expenses.

Why I’m on the fence. In the cruise line’s view, this was just an unfortunate event, like getting a bad sunburn or stubbing your toe on the deck. Unless its negligence can be proven, there’s not much it’s willing to do. What more can Carnival do than apologize?

At the same time, LoTempio and his girlfriend had a very disappointing cruise, and they should be able to offer them some incentive to sail on Carnival again. I mean, where’s the customer service?

A survey of more than 900 readers showed they were almost evenly divided — 49.2 percent “yes” and 50.8 percent “no.”

(Photo: Will amor/Flickr Creative Commons)

  • http://noaddedsalt.blogspot.com Elisa

    Regardless of whether she caught it on board or beforehand, this wasn’t food poisonining, it was a communicable illness (or else, as others said, her boyfriend couldn’t have contracted it). While it seems easy to blame it on the ship, or the company, or the staff who live abroad, the simple fact is that these illnesses are contracted by putting your hands where dirty hands have been. Stair rails, door handles, elevator buttons, you name it. These gastro illnesses come from directly contacting the toilet germs left by others.

    So the girl probably picked it up from one of these surfaces, and the boyfriend probably then contracted it from their bathroom.

    The only “prevention” is not to touch supermarket trolleys, door handles, serving spoons, and so on. Unfortuntely, most people don’t really understand just how contagious these illnesses are.

    The cruise lines do everything they can to prevent outbreaks, but you can’t force people to take scrupulous care where they put their hands.

  • Jesse

    Very evenly split…are you going to mediate?

  • Christopher Elliott

    @Jesse, I’m leaning toward not mediating this one.

  • Carrie Charney

    There are common food-borne organisms that can cause severe symptoms in as little as an hour. However, unless other cruisers, who ate at that restaurant, became ill, there is little reason to think that their first meal caused her illness.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Erik – “I’ve taken “the liberty of doing a little research” and found that Carnival encourages its crew to not report in sick with gastro illness.”
    - – - – – -
    Please provide the webpages; websites; copies of internal Carnival memos; etc. proving your statement that Carnival encourages its crew to report in for work when they have gastro illness.

    @ Erik – “Cruise line employees, who are not protected by US Labor laws that protect whistleblowers (let along provide for minimum wage), do what they can to avoid their miniscule paychecks being docked for not working…”
    - – - – - – - -
    If the cruise line employees were protected by US labor laws, etc., guess what will happen to the prices of cruises? They will go up thus making them ‘unaffordable’ to the majority of the US public. The public has spoken and they want cheap cruise prices especially the market that Carnival serves.

    To me a good analogy is Wal-Mart. People like Wal-Mart because they have the low prices. Most people don’t realize that the majority of Wal-Mart employees are part-time (i.e. work less than 30 or 32 hours a week and that is by design of Wal-Mart management) thus no health insurance. The number of Wal-Mart workers and family members on public health care assistance is very high. In Arizona, Wal-Mart employees make up the largest portion of AZ citizens on the AZ Access health care system. A person may save some money at Wal-Mart but it is probably a wash when accounting for the taxes that one pays to the state to fund AZ Access health care system.

    You can’t eat your cake and have it too. You can low cruise rates and employees protected by US labor laws, etc. Choose.

  • Badger

    I’m an emergency medicine MD and agree with the Ally’s post. Although food poisoning may present within hours of eating, it would most likely be toxin-mediated and have a shorter duration of symptoms than described and also not be passed to the OP. The couple’s unfortunate vacation was likely ruined before they walked on to the ship.

  • flutiefan

    i am glad that the slight majority of folks voted not to mediate. i think this sounds like a horrible vacation, and a miserable time was had by the OP. however, nothing proves that Carnival is at fault. this kind of illness can be picked up anywhere.
    while it is certainly unfortunate, and i wouldn’t wish the situation on anyone, i do not believe Carnival should be held liable.

    p.s. one of my best friends had the Norwalk virus on a cruise we took (also Carnival). it was pure misery for her, start to finish. however, though she has vowed never to cruise again, we never felt it was appropriate to approach Carnival about compensation.

  • LeeAnne

    I’m glad that Christopher is leaning towards not mediating. If he takes this one, he’ll be inundated! If everyone who ends up sick on a cruise contacts him for mediation, that’s all he’ll be doing – and then who’s going to mediate for travelers who are REALLY wronged?

  • Bill

    On the one hand, I’ve never cruised, so I’m not in a position to comment. On the other hand, reading stories like this makes it very unlikely that I will ever cruise.

  • Bill

    And I’d sure like to know what “OP” stands for….I understand it is the passenger, but why “OP”?
    Thanks.

  • Julie

    The fact that they were healthy when they sat down to eat means nothing. Every time I’ve succumbed to the flu, I was perfectly healthy 30 minutes before I began spewing out various orifices. The fact that her BF then caught it is viral, not bacterial.

  • LeeAnne

    @Bill – “OP” is an artifact from regular message boards (as opposed to this, which is not so much message board as it is a “comment forum on a blog”). It stands for “Original Poster”, and is usually used in a thread to refer to the person who started the thread. Often on message boards, conversations in a thread can meander around, and posters end up talking more to each other than they do to the OP, sometimes long after the OP himself has lost interest in the discussion. So when they want to refer to the person who started the thread, OP is just message board shorthand.

    It’s not really appropriate on this blog, since it’s not the actual wronged traveler who start the threads here, it’s Christopher – but those of us who frequent other message boards find that old habits die hard! ;-)

  • Charles

    @Bill OP is short for “Original Poster”. It’s a common way to refer to the person who started a discussion thread. In this case they are referring to the people who wrote the request to Elliott in this case. Actually, I don’t think that’s a good usage here, since the posts are responding to an article, but it’s a common usage these days in blogs.

  • CTP

    I too think this is a “do not mediate” even though I am going on a cruise this summer. I am not convinced that the wife of the OP (original poster) contracted the illness from the first day buffet. They actually may want to figure out where it did come from, such as a local pre-cruise restaurant, foods purchased at a grocery store, etc. and see if others were impacted as well.

    CTP

  • MeanMeosh

    How about a third option – “can’t decide because not enough facts in evidence”. There’s a lot of things we don’t know in this case: how many others on the cruise were affected? What was the shipboard doctor’s diagnosis? I can only speculate that this was not a widespread outbreak on the ship, or the story would have ended up in the news somewhere (because after all, everyone loves hearing about a good norovirus story on the 10:00 news). And if it wasn’t a widespread outbreak, I don’t think any compensation is warranted. As many others have pointed out, getting sick on vacation sucks – let’s just say you’ve never truly had an adventure until you catch a stomach bug in India during the middle of a 10 hour drive – but it happens, and you just have to make the best of it.

    @Bill – “OP” stands for “original poster”.

  • Eric

    Maybe cruise lines should install mini-fridges in some cabins, and then allow passengers to bring their own food. You eat your own food, in your cabin. Would that prevent every illness? No. But it would eliminate a major avenue of disease propagation.

    @Bill OP = “Original Poster”.

    @Julie That’s why it’s called “Noro-Virus”.

  • MichelleLV

    It was probably Norovirus. Norovirus has an incubation time of 12-48 hrs, but is usually closer to 24-28 hours. Not the one hour has he put it. Had it been just food poisoning from the food she ate the boyfriend probably would have got sick at the same time, or not at all. It is more likely she contracted it at an airport eatery since her symptoms started shortly after boarding. The boyfriend contracted it from her while caring for her (should have washed his hands more). I would have voted No. This situation just sucks given Cruises are usually planned well in advanced with a lot of money invested into the vacation. I feel bad for them but I don’t think it was Carnival’s fault.

    PS- On another note, I would never trust a company to say that no else got sick but I really don’t think she got this bug from the ship.

    To the AZ Warrior-

    This is a common practice with a lot of companies so Wal-Mart should not be singled out. It is nearly impossible to find a retail job that is full time. I bet Target, Albertson’s, Krogers and many others have the same ratio of part-time employees to full-time employees. Target and Alberston’s are priced a lot higher, but the profits ARE NOT going back to the cashiers or stockers. I also do not see these extra profits going back into the community.

  • Jeanne in TX

    I had a miserable experience on a tour once in my youth. Travelling across Europe, Africa and the Middle East, I also succumbed to a 2 day “horror” of a flu that finally hit me in Israel. I suspect that in an unguarded moment, I drank some water with ice in it at a sketchy resturant while in Egypt a few days before.

    I lost 2 days of the tour, but I didn’t ask for 2 day’s worth of refunds.

    When I went to the doctor when I got back (I was still having recurring bouts of it 2 weeks later), the doctor explained it as “different bacterialogical flora.” Somewhere I was exposed to a bacteria that the locals had long ago learned to tolerate, but since it was new to my system, it took over. I eventually got better, but it was the worst bout of a stomach sickness that I’ve ever had.

    I think everyone runs that risk if they travel abroad. Not much a tour operator or cruise ship operator can do to mitigate a certain amount of that. I should have stuck to my canteen of hotel water that had the bacteria killed with the iodine pill treatment. ;-)

  • Mike Z

    @Arizona, your Walmart analogy is a very poor one to base your arguement on. WalMart is able to leverage vendors to keep pricing very low even though it does comply with US Labor Laws. Based on the first thing you wrote, since WalMart complied with US labor laws, they should be very expensive, which is simply not the case. In addition, WalMart also sells a lot of “Made in the USA” items, so that would also be a poor indicator.

    Also, unless the law has recently changed, the cruise line is not required to report every case to the CDC for investigation or monitoring. The reporting is only required above a certain percent. Based on what I saw during a search, the total can be as high as 7%. On a cruise with thousands of passengers and crew, that works out to a fairly high count. So the cruise line may see anything below that percentage as not an “abnormal” amount.

  • cjr

    “On the other hand, reading stories like this makes it very unlikely that I will ever cruise.”

    I don’t see why that would be the case. You can get sick at a local restaurant as easily as you can on a cruise.

    But, much like a plane crash gets far more attention than a car crash, an outbreak of illness on a cruise ship or a school gets far more attention than in one’s house. It’s a matter of scale… but it’s also a matter of percentages. Outbreaks of illness on cruise ships, like plane crashes, aren’t common enough to be a serious concern.

  • Fred Munroe

    Everyone should read Badger’s comment from yesterday at 6:39 PM.

    I agree with Badger 100%.

    While I cannot find a link to it, about 18 months ago the CDC issued a report about the tracking of virus outbreaks on cruise ships. Their report included a string of case histories. These included finding the first 10-20 virus reportings on a particular cruise were all passengers who arrived at departure location on the same flight from London.

    Also in this report it was rather clear that the first reported cases for crew members were almost 48-72 hours AFTER the first reported cases from passengers. And beyond that, I defer back to Badger’s comment.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Mike Z – My point is that most people want low prices and most don’t look at the total picture; don’t care about the ‘consequences’ of their purchases; etc. In regards to Wal-Mart, they purposely make their employees ‘part-time’ to avoid paying benefits to them. Given a choice between low prices at their store or making Wal-Mart to provide health insurance to their employees, the public has voted with their wallet and they wanted low prices. Most people don’t not take in account the state taxes or extra state taxes that are required to fund the healthcare of the Wal-Mart employees. Wal-Mart could provide health insurance benefits to their employees which probably will raise prices by a few pennies across the board but elected not.

    It is like people that complain that there are no shoe manufacturers left in the USA yet they want to spend the least amount of money for a pair of shoe. You can’t keep raising the minimum wage (or want companies to have livable wages) without the understanding that the prices of goods will go up.

    Does the US public want the employees of the cruise lines to fall under US labor laws; the ships to come under US rules and regulation; etc. or do they want cheap cruise rates? It is the latter since the number of travelers taking cruises is going up every year. If the public\consumer wants the cruise employees to be covered by the US labor laws, they would have boycotted the cruise lines…instead, they are buying cruises in record amounts.

    I understand the real and total costs (federal unemployment taxes, state unemployment taxes, workman compensation, FICA taxes, Medicare taxes, etc.) of having employees. The typical employer pays an additional 25 to 30% of the employee’s salary in fees, taxes, benefits, etc. If the cruise line employees fall under the US labor laws, the costs per cruise will go up for the cruise lines and the cruise lines will pass these additional costs to their customers.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ MichelleLV – “I bet Target, Albertson’s, Krogers and many others have the same ratio of part-time employees to full-time employees.”
    - – - – - – -
    Wal-Mart intentionally makes their employees part-time to avoid paying benefits.

    @ MichelleLV – “Target and Alberston’s are priced a lot higher, but the profits ARE NOT going back to the cashiers or stockers.”
    - – - – - – - –
    We have found lower prices at Target. Take a look at the employees wages at Costco and Sam’s Club. Costco pays much higher wages and yet the prices at Costco are lower than Sam’s Clun for the exact same item.

    @ MichelleLV – “I also do not see these extra profits going back into the community.”
    - – - – - – - -
    In the Target stores that we shop, we see signs how much money that has been donated to the local community. How cares how much money that Wal-Mart donate to the local community…how about paying decent wages and benefits so that the taxpayers (which some of them are business owners that are competing against Wal-Mart so they are funding their competitors) are not footing the bills. You can pay a few pennies more at the store or pay more taxes to your state (pay now or pay later).

  • ValB

    If it came from the restaurant, why didn’t he get sick at the same time? If there had been an outbreak- several people that got sick at the same time, then Carnival is definitely at fault. But it appears she was the only one at a buffet that got sick… So, no one else ate from the same trays? Or maybe Carnival withheld that info. Either way, there is no proof that Carnival is culpable…

  • MichelleLV

    To AZ- Hi Neighbor. I live in NV so I don’t pay state income tax and I don’t mind the sales tax. I don’t shop at Costco for multiple reasons. To name a few, I have found that the unit price of the items I typically purchase are the same or more than the items I purchase at Wal-Mart and I do not like to buy in bulk.

    How(sic) cares about how much money Wal-Mart donates? —I bet the people who receive the 288.1 million worth of donations in 2009 alone cares. Wal-Mart consistently tops the list for charitable donations. http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/2010-08-08-corporate-philanthropy-interactive-graphic_N.htm

    I guess I didn’t make my point clearly the first time- Target (and most others) intentionally hires part-time employees too so they limit the number of employees qualify for insurance. Target relies on shoppers to believe that only Wally World is the big bad meanie company.

    You would only have a valid point if you shopped at mom and pop stores and as a Target shopper you are just as guilty me for shopping at the big box store. Maybe you should come off your pedestal and review a few of your “facts.” Keep shopping at Target..no one will care but at least realize you are doing it because that is the store you prefer, and not because you are making a stand.

  • Cheryl

    If their illness came from the cruise ship restaurant then there would have been many more on board that also got sick. People are not quiet when outbreaks occur, and they guests would have heard about it. I agree that the food poisoning occurred prior to boarding the ship, rarely would it attack in one hour.

  • Carver

    @Arizona

    You are mostly correct about the Wal Mart model. However, nationwide, about 90 percent of Wal Mart employees have health insurance. What WalMart has done is figured out how to shift the cost of insurance, not to the public, but to other companies. For example, if Walmart employees students, they’re on their parents healthcare. Married folks get health care through their spouses, etc.

    The reality is that whenever a Walmart opens, people flood the application centers to apply for the jobs.