Can this trip be saved? No one told her about the flight restrictions for kids

Note: This is the second installment of “Can this trip be saved?” where you get to vote on whether I mediate a case. The first case was solved last week (see update).

Even though she did her best to ensure her 15-year-old grandson could make the flight from St. Louis to Fort Myers, Fla., things didn’t quite work out for Victoria Horwitz-Denger. He ended up having to pay another $100 to fly down to Florida and bought a brand-new ticket to get home.

Now Horwitz-Denger wants some of her money back — either from her online travel agency, Travelocity, or from her airline.

Why? No one mentioned the restrictions on the ticket for minors.

Should I intervene on her behalf, and ask Travelocity or the air carrier to return her money, or have they done enough?

Here’s why Horwitz-Denger thinks she has a case:

Prior to the flight, I called both Delta and US Airways to find out what kind of ID he would need to travel.

Both told me nothing special, maybe just a school ID. I also asked if he would be allowed to travel by himself and again, they both said that yes he could if he was at least 15.

When we arrived at the St. Louis airport, Delta said we would have to pay an additional $100 since he was a minor. Rather than miss his flight, we did this. Delta has since agreed to refund that money.

When my sister-in-law brought him to the Fort Myers airport for the return flight, US Airways, refused to let him board the plane since he would need to change planes in Charlotte N.C., and there was no adult to meet him there. This information had never been communicated to us either by Travelocity or US Airways.

In order for him to get home, my sister-in-law had to purchase a one-way ticket on Southwest for $332.

Horwitz-Denger sent me the correspondence between her and Travelocity, and there’s no mention of the online agency seeking a refund from US Airways.

Why I’m on the fence. US Airways’ requirements for minors are spelled out on its site but they are confusing, at best. On the one hand, “children 15-17 may travel unaccompanied on nonstop and connecting flights without US Airways assistance.” On the other, “Children 15-17 who require US Airways assistance may travel unaccompanied on nonstop flights only.” Did her grandson require assistance? The only way to find out would have been to contact the airline directly before the flight, which she did.

But there was reason to believe the return trip might be problematic, and indeed, that its initial answer might be incomplete, given Horwitz-Denger’s grandson’s experience on his first flight. Why not contact Travelocity or US Airways before her grandson returned or do a little research online? He stayed in Fort Myers more than a week, which was ample time to fix the problem.

Also, it appears Horwitz-Denger took matters into her own hands when her grandson was denied boarding on his return flight. Why not contact Travelocity and give it a chance to fix things?

The real question is, did she make enough mistakes in dealing with this issue that she should have to eat the cost of an additional plane ticket?

I need your help on this one. I think US Airways, with its fuzzy policy on minors, and Travelocity, which should have given her the correct information automatically, bears some responsibility.

But where does the proverbial buck stop?

Survey says …

The roughly 300 responses were collected between 7:30 a.m. and 10:30 a.m. EST. I’ll be contacting Travelocity.

(Photo:: h rosen man/Flickr Creative Commons)

Newer Comments →
  • http://qbubbles.wordpress.com qbubbles

    There is no survey.

  • Rachel

    I think she deserves some help. At first I was on the fence, because it may have worked much better if she’d contacted Travelocity from the airport before buying a new ticket. But she tried to be proactive by calling both airlines prior to the trip, and Travelocity should have made any minor rules clear on their website. I understand why she would feel the need to call US Air a second time before her grandson left Ft Myers — she’d already spoken to them once, and had no reason to think they’d left any info out.

  • Christopher Elliott

    @qbubbles, sorry, sometimes ad blocking software can prevent it from showing up. Here’s the link: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RWDSLX3

  • http://www.singleparenttravel.net John Frenaye

    She obviously knew enough that there might be issues despite “no one telling her” about any restrictions. Unfortunately, the web will not be as proactive as an agent and will not “tell” her anything she does not want to hear. For her to have all the information,she needs to go looking for it.

  • Kami

    I’m sorry….I don’t think you should mediate this one. I fly my children unaccompanied all the time, and ALWAYS either fly them non-stop, or pay the unaccompanied minor fees. While the language may not be perfectly clear, if he has a stop to make, you as the parent/guardian of a child in that middle age group have a decision to make: If he’s 15, and you feel that he is capable of changing gates without assistance, then clarify the policy with the airline, otherwise, er on the side of caution and pay to fly him as an unaccompanied minor. They won’t turn him away to fly that way until he’s 18.

  • Meredith Putvin

    I’m sorry, but my daughter has been traveling like this since she was 5 years old and is 15 now. I’ve *never* had a problem with the Unaccompanied Minor programs and knew about the fees Upfront.

    The websites are tricky, but NBC also did a segment a few years back to help Travellers unravel them. I don’t know, maybe I’m just jaded because I’ve been doing this for ten year with two different Carriers.

    A few tips I’ve learned -

    First: Never use a third party site like Travelocity. They DO NOT have the proper policies in place for minors. Always go direct through the Airlines.

    Second: Research which airline is going to make the trip in the fewest hops (connections). When my daughter was under the age of 12, we were using Northwest (prior to the merger). Northwest was the only airline that ran a non-stop from Providence to Detriot.

    Third: Research the Program – I can’t stress this ENOUGH. Even though the tickets were more expensive, I was impressed with the level of care Northwest took in their program. Unaccompanied minors are first on/Last off when it comes to boarding and are always in the supervision of a staff member. IF you can’t meet your child at the gate, They bring the child to the Baggage Office and wait with the Child. And you as the Parent Have to provide ID before picking up the child.

    Fourth: Research the airport with the child so they have an idea of where to catch their next flight. When I switched to Southwest due to budget, I took the extra step of bringing up the maps to show my daughter. The first time she had a connecting flight, it was through BWI. I know how big that airport is firsthand. Saturday was through Chicago Midway.

    Fifth: Advise the child what to do in an emergency. My daughter carries a cellphone with her. If there is a problem she is told to go to a Gate Agent First… Then to call either me or her father. If she has to call either parent, she is too upset and needs to be talked through what to do. But at least she knows we’re there.

    Sixth: ID – I always made sure my Daughter had some sort of Photo ID with her when Traveling. High School IDs are a recent trend but I don’t think too many Reps are familiar with the. If the school doesn’t have their own ID program, see if they work with a program called “Ident-a-Kid.” I know the local Police departments and the Center for Missing and Exploited Children have programs they sponsor or recommend for this. The Ident-a-kid ID is a photo id with a thumb print and the parent’s contact information.

    Finally: When in Doubt, talk to a Airline representative. I was a little fuzzy on the Southwest policy and spoke to a customer Service Rep. She was able to answer all my questions and bring me up to speed on the policy.

    I have to say I have not had a problem with Either Northwest (Pre-Merger) or Southwest. Even with a 3 hour lay over in Midway, she made it to her father with no problems.

  • kevin

    Chris,
    I’m not sure there is enough information here to really know what’s going on. It sounds to me like there is wiggle room in US Air policy to allow for minors to fly without assistance.
    Does her grandchild have special needs?
    Did she read the policy before the flight?
    Why didn’t she contact her “Travel Agent” instead of taking it into her own hands?
    If this lady reads your blog, then she’d know to send an E-Mail to the airlines for clarification so that there’d be a paper trail to fall back on.
    While I did vote YES, I did so in order to try and get some more information on this.
    If the child required no assistance, then absolutely intervine on her behalf. While she did screw up in not involving Travelocity, the US Airways employees should know their own policies.
    If the child required assistance, then don’t bother helping…

  • Phil

    First of all I don’t see where the US Airways information is fuzzy. There are rules for those 15-17 who don’t need assistance ie changing aircraft and there is a charge for those 15-17 who do need assistance ie changing aircraft, so it boils down to if the child was savey enough to find his seat on the plane, change aircraft and take care of himself or not, obviously he was and did not need help as he made it to his destination. As to whether the mother did enough research prior to his returning, who knows if she really did or not, reading the airline rules as put out by US Airways would have been enough, that is if one is smart enough to understand them, and I bet the 15 year old kid would have been able to understand them.

  • Mel

    I’m a little confused. I recently tried using Orbitz, Expedia and Travelocity to make a flight arrangement for my 14 year old son to fly non-stop to visit his Grandparents. On every site, I was unable to complete the purchase as soon as I put in his age because a pop up came up saying they were basically unable to sell me a ticket for an unaccompanied minor…. So, I’m trying to figure out how she managed to make the purchase at all….

  • Roberto

    Horwitz-Denger contacted Travelocity, USAir and Delta and asked each of them if he’d be allowed to travel by himself. They all said, “Yes.” Even USAir.

    If USAir said yes, and then denied him boarding, then they owe something, in my opinion. You say Horwitz-Denger should have called USAir after grandson had to pay a $100 unaccompanied minor fee, but why? She probably just assumed that he’d have to pay $100 on the return trip, not that he’d be denied boarding! Had she contacted USAir, who’s to say they would have told her anything different?

    This whole unaccompanied minor thing is a scam, as far as I’m concerned. A 15 year old is old enough to walk from one gate to another. Man, how we’ve become a nation of babies.

  • Edmond

    The other comments so far have been against offering Horwitz-Denger assistance, so let me offer an opinion from the other side. First I should say that we are all very lucky to be both internet and travel savvy. We realize the brazen, cold lack of customer service and business ethics from both Travelocity and US Airways (A bit harsh?). We tend to linger over an internet site’s policies, or triple check a law on the books to ensure a smooth transaction when there is a gray area. Is this what this world has come to?

    This woman bought a ticket believing that customer service was still intact, believing that information provided by a call center rep was correct (Naive, I know). How did we get so far down this path that we have to have an attorney on retainer to do any business whatsoever?

    Bottom line: a business needs to honor what an employee says to a customer. Whomever that employee is, and at whatever level. If we do, we will continue to suffer.

  • Ira

    Given the conflicting info in US Air’s own requirements, US Air can’t assert one clause over the other. It bears the responsibility for its error.

    Also, the point of booking on the Internet is to avoid having to call. This saves both the user and the company time and money. It introduces the necessity of clear information presentation and application of rules. Travelocity sold the service which could not be delivered. As a third party representing US Air’s services, it is responsible for presenting them to purchasers as the airline would, and bears the responsibility for errors should they arise.

    The fact that Ms. Horwitz-Denger could have made calls to everyone before the flight is irrelevant. that should be unnecessary. the fact that she did to resolve a reasonable issue (what ID should a flying minor carry) indicates that she acted in good faith. She had no reason to assume any other issues as she was sold a product with clear identification parameters on her part (she identified the minor upon purchase).

    I believe that both Travelocity and US Air owe her for her time and alternative arrangements. They should step up as Delta has.

  • Kevin

    When the ticket was purchased, the age of the passenger was put into the system. At that point, something should have kicked in. In the 21st Century, I there is really no excuse for a pop up screen not to pop up. I consider it very unethical for airlines to sell tickets that can not actually be used.

    They sold a ticket for a minor, knowing he was a minor and knowing that he could not fly without a companion on the return flight. They allowed him to board and fly half the route on this ticket, all the time knowing he was a minor with a connecting ticket on the way back…again saying nothing until he showed up for the return. Only then, after having the money for the ticket for some time, after flying the child did they deny boarding.

    The airline is responsible. I do not think it is reasonable to ask a child traveling alone in the hands of a relative…to expect the child and his family to wait for the offending airline and travel agent to argue about the problem, the child’s interest comes first, to get him or her home.

  • andi330

    Before I could vote either way, I need to know if there is a reason the airline would think her grandson required assistance. Does he have a visible handicap which would require him to need assistance in some way or was this a case of the airport personnel not knowing their company policy? Does he look visibly younger than he really is? It seems that perhaps there is a reason for the airport personnel to think the grandson needed assistance, because they charged the fee on the outbound flight, which is required only if the minor needs assistance, and then enforced the no connecting flights rule on the return portion. This seems to indicate that the airport personnel at both airports had a reason to believe that her grandson would need assistance during his flight. If so, I don’t think you should help.

    I’m on the fence if there is no obvious reason why the personnel would think that her grandson needed assistance. On the one hand, it seems that Delta has agreed to refund the $100 fee for the original flight, which may be an admission that they shouldn’t have collected it because the grandson did not actually need assistance, and so should not have denied the granson boarding for the return portion of the flight. Or, it could just be a way to try to get an upset passenger to shut up and go away. Either way, she should have called Travellocity from the airport and asked them to fix the problem, otherwise why bother using any kind of agent at all? She could have booked directly through the airline. There’s definitely fault on the side of the customer here, but until we know if there was some reason for the airport personnel to think that her grandson needed assistance, or couldn’t change planes on his own, I don’t know if I can decide whether you should help or not.

  • Laine

    I think you should try to help because the grandmother did what she knew how to do to make sure her grandson could fly without problems. I think what many people dont’t think of is that this grandmother is probably at least a middle aged woman that may not be very sophisticated about the internet and making travel arrangements. People in their thirties and younger, have always had computers, but older folks have not, and unless they have a real reason to be using the internet, other than email, may not be very experienced with researching information.

  • MVFlyer

    Unless her grandson had some obvious reason why he couldn’t make the connection on his own, I think you should intervene. US’s unaccompied minor’s policy states:

    “Upon request, service will be provided by US Airways for young adults ages 15 through 17. The Unaccompanied Minor Request for Carriage form must be completed, and the unaccompanied minor fee applies.”

    If the OP didn’t request it, she doesn’t owe the fee.

  • DWM

    If the information on the site is unclear, it makes sense to call the airline. However, in this day and age, it would seem to make sense that if a phone rep told you it was OK, you should ask for some sort of confirmation in writing or a reference to a posted policy (on the contract of carriage or website) stating what you have been told is true.

    Considering the number of stories that float through this site of customer service saying one thing and then doing another, I think anytime somebody tells you something on a phone, you need to get a copy in writing. And if you can’t, then I’m sorry, you cannot assume what you have been told is accurate. Maybe it shouldn’t be that way, but alas, it is the world we live in.

  • Proud stepfather

    Needed assistance all depends on the ability of the young traveler. My 14 year-old step-daughter and has traveled with connections with no problems on Southwest. Yes, there are “age-sensisitve” pop-up boxes on the SWA websites when ticket reservations were made. It depends on the ability of the traveler to know what is what. Oh, I forgot to mention that she is Deaf and proud of her accomplishments.

  • Liz

    As I said on the last installment, I think that where there is an issue that has confusion or mistakes on both sides, Chris should mediate what he can. Maybe grandma should’ve been better informed, but it sounds to me like she did what she could by asking the airlines & I don’t know why she would expect there to be a problem if she was told everything was fine.

    The biggest concern to me is that they were forced to buy a new ticket on SW. Had US Air only charged them the minor fee returning, I’d consider that fair, but since it appears that US Air (via Travelocity) took her money but didn’t give the kid a flight home, I definitely think this is something Chris should look into.

  • http://www.imageswritten.biz Susan

    I flew for the first time in my life – at age 16 to Germany, with a loosely organized school group/exchange program.

    I flew CMH to ORD to Frankfurt. On the return flight, I flew Berlin (right after the wall came down) to Frankfurt to ORD to CMH.

    In Germany, I took the train around Berlin, with a group of other 16 year olds.

    I think you should mediate – the bottom line is I think the US Air agent wanted to make some extra bucks for the company.

    Furthermore – if airlines think it is ok to break up my reservations and seat my 5 year old in the back of the plane 14 rows behind me – when I buy and select seats together – I think they forfeit the right to charge extra for “unaccompanied minors.” If my 5 yr is expected to manage himself or not fly as many of your readers have stipulated – then I think a 15 yr surly ought to be just fine – no extra fees apply.

    Crud – that will be next. They will willfully on one hand break families apart and then “notice” the error at the gate and try to hit you with additional fees.

    Fee hungry airlines and discount fly by night – I am just selling you a ticket and bear no reasonable responsibility for service or clarity online travel agents have ruined travel – it is a mishmash of conflicting rules and lax enforcement.

  • Sarah Di

    If she explained how old he was and they told her that he would be fine to fly by himself, then US Airways messed up. She did her research the way she was supposed to do it.

  • Tanya

    @ Mel – I just went and checked the three websites as well, Travelocity, Expedia, and Orbitz. None of them would let me book a flight for 1 for a minor age 15. A big box appears with red lettering saying that you cannot do it through the website.

    Which is why I voted no. Unless ALL 3 have recently changed their policies, this person either did something wrong when booking or the system glitched that day.

    Delta already agreed to refund the first $100 that was paid. I think we are all missing some information, clearly by US Airway’s own rules, a 15 year old can fly without assistance, even with a connection. So either they felt he needed assistance and did not want to pay or the gate agent did not know the rules. I am also unclear as to how the reservations were even made on Travelocity.

    How did she manage to make the reservations on Travelocity. I would really like to know this information, as if she circumvented the problem by putting in a different age or just by booking as an adult, this is the OP’s fault and Travelocity should not have to bear the cost for a consumer cutting corners.

  • Pplaresilly

    I don’t think you should mediate this one. Just bcs you can read doesn’t make you smart. And just bcs you can pay extra doesn’t mean someone else has to bail you out. Grandma should have read everything and then reread it again and if the understanding wasn’t clear then ask direct questions of whomever is getting the money. For most people this is a pay first and ask questions later society…and then whine about it. Tough!

  • http://www.all-about-guatemala.com Benjamin Barnett

    Regarding ID for the child – the most recognizable ID is a passport, so just go ahead and get it. Many kids travel internationally these days on school trips, etc, and depending on the age, the passport will be good for 5 or 10 years. Easier than wondering.

    Alternatively, when I was a teenager (almost 2 decades ago!) the Dept of Transportation, who issued driver’s licenses would give a non-driver identification that looked almost identical to a license. This is another viable alternative, but still about 30 bucks. May as well get a passport if you’re going to spend that much.

  • Josh

    You people saying not to mediate this are crazy — the rules on both US Airways and Delta are crystal clear:

    US: “Children 15-17 may travel unaccompanied on non-stop and connecting flights without US Airways assistance.”

    Delta: “Children 15–17 are not required to have unaccompanied service but we will provide it when requested”

    And this was 100% consistent with the answers she got in *multiple* phone calls; she did her due diligence here. I’m not sure what more she should have done?

    Barring a medical/disability issue, it would be up to the *parents* whether they request special unaccompanied minor service; they didn’t because this 15-year old was perfectly capable of boarding and connecting, as most 15-year olds who have have flown before are.

    The checkin agents are the ones who need to be reprimanded for violating their own policy, and the airlines need to refund all extra charges here.

    Chris, you’ve helped people with much more iffy cases; please please help her go after the airlines on this.

  • Chris in NC

    @ Chris (Elliott)

    I echo Tanya’s comment. HOW did the OP book a ticket for a 15 year old on Travelocity? It is my understanding that a minor ticket has to be booked with an adult ticket. Unless there was a software glitch, I don’t see how it is possible for the OP to book such a ticket in the scenario above (unless she did it by phone)

    There are 2 separate issues here:
    1) If Travelocity did indeed allow the OP to book her ticket as described in the above situation, then Travelocity needs to have an adequate disclosure. It seems that Travelocity does disclose this (ie it doesn’t allow you to make such a booking online). If she had called, and it wasn’t disclosed, then she deserves compensation.

    2) I can’t see how US Airways is at fault here. It didn’t sell the ticket. Its policies are clearly spelled out.

    Chris (Elliott), I am REALLY curious as to how the OP booked this ticket.

  • Chris in NC

    An addendum… in my haste to try and post the comment before lunch. For some crazy reason, I thought that their policy only allowed unaccompanied minors to travel on non-stop flights (I am fairly certain that one airline has this policy)

    Per US Airways’ own guidelines, her grandson should not have been denied boarding. Could the OP have done more, maybe, but the agent clearly erred.

    Chris

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    Horwitz-Denger should have booked the ticket with one airline instead of going with two airlines since airlines could have different policy in regards to unaccompanied minors.

    I think that Horwitz-Denger should have booked the ticket directly with an airline instead of using Travelocity.

    Based upon the information in this article, it seems like Travelocity website is lacking when it comes to unaccompanied minors. Travelocity should disclosed the rules for unaccompanied minors when they sell tickets.

    They should have contacted Travelocity when the 15-YO was denied at the check-out counter. It was a mistake to purchase another airline without contacting Travelocity first.

    Horwitz-Denger should have printed out the unaccompanied minors policies for Delta and US Airways and gave a copy to her grandson in case of a problem.

    In regards to the US Airways counter agent at CLT, we don’t know what exactly took place. The counter agent might have asked the grandson if he needed assistance and they responded ‘Yes’ thus the denial. Or the counter agent could have been ignorant. Given that there are unaccompanied minors flying everyday especially during the summer months, it is hard for me to believe that a counter agent doesn’t know the airline policy. There could be more to this story. That is why these interactions at the ticket counter should be videotaped and recorded.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Phil – “First of all I don’t see where the US Airways information is fuzzy. There are rules for those 15-17 who don’t need assistance ie changing aircraft and there is a charge for those 15-17 who do need assistance ie changing aircraft, so it boils down to if the child was savey enough to find his seat on the plane, change aircraft and take care of himself or not, obviously he was and did not need help as he made it to his destination.”
    - – - – - –
    I agree. It is hard for me to believe that a ticket counter agent won’t know the UM policy especially during the summer time when there are a lot more UMs traveling. I think that there is more to the story like the counter agent asking the sister-in-law and/or 15-YO if the 15-YO needs assistance when arriving in CLT. Or the counter agent could have been ignorant on the UM policy.

    @ Mel – “I’m a little confused. I recently tried using Orbitz, Expedia and Travelocity to make a flight arrangement for my 14 year old son to fly non-stop to visit his Grandparents.”
    - – - – - – — – - -
    I just went to the Travelocity website to book a ticket for a 15-YO and it didn’t allow me. I received the message of “Your search request cannot be satisfied. All minors must be traveling with at least one adult (18 – 64 years) or one senior (65+ years). Please revise your traveler age criteria and try your search again.” Unless Travelocity changed their website after Horwitz-Denger purchased the tickets, I have questions on how Horwitz-Denger purchased tickets for her 15-YO grandson. There is a very strong possibility that she selected ‘one’ adult instead of ‘one’ child between the ages of 2-17 if Travelocity has NOT made any changes to their website.

    @ Roberto – “Horwitz-Denger contacted Travelocity, USAir and Delta and asked each of them if he’d be allowed to travel by himself. They all said, “Yes.” Even USAir.”
    - – - – - – - -
    The article states that Horwitz-Denger contacted US Airways and Delta. I could not find the sentence where she stated Travelocity. UNLESS Travelocity made a change to their website in regards to UM after Horwitz-Denger purchased the tickets, I don’t think that Horwitz-Denger contacted Travelocity and I think that she made an ‘illegal’ reservation (booking a ticket for a minor as an adult) since I just tried to book a ticket for 15-YO and it was denied.

    @ Roberto – “If USAir said yes, and then denied him boarding…”
    - – - – - – -
    We don’t know what took place. Maybe the US Airways ticket counter discovered that the ticket was an ‘illegal’ reservation…or maybe the sister-in-law (without thinking or knowing the policies) told the ticket counter that the 15-YO needs assistance between the gates…or maybe that the US Airways counter agent was incompetent. We don’t know the whole story.

    @ Roberto – “This whole unaccompanied minor thing is a scam, as far as I’m concerned. A 15 year old is old enough to walk from one gate to another. Man, how we’ve become a nation of babies.”
    - – - – - – -
    Some 15-YO are mature enough to travel by themselves and some are not. It is a liability issue especially in today’s sue happy society.

    @ Edmond – “We realize the brazen, cold lack of customer service and business ethics from both Travelocity and US Airways (A bit harsh?). “
    - – - – - – -
    Horwitz-Denger purchased the ticket from Travelocity but she didn’t contacted them about the UM policy for the respective airlines. She or her sister-in-law didn’t contact Travelocity when they have a problem at the Ft. Myers airport. As I wrote above, I went to the Travelocity website to book a ticket for a 15-YO and couldn’t. Where did Travelocity failed to provide customer service before the purchase or during the trip?

    In regards to US Airways, we don’t know what took place at the counter. Maybe the US Airways ticket counter discovered that the ticket was an ‘illegal’ reservation…or maybe the sister-in-law (without thinking or knowing the policies) told the ticket counter that the 15-YO needs assistance between the gates…or maybe that the US Airways counter agent was incompetent. We don’t know the whole story.

    @ Edmond – “This woman bought a ticket believing that customer service was still intact, believing that information provided by a call center rep was correct (Naive, I know). “
    - – - – - – - – - –
    She purchased the ticket because it was the cheapest. The information provided by the Delta and US Airways CSRs were correct. I the $ 100 fee for UM on the Delta website. It is my guess that the Delta CSR guess that this $ 100 fee was already paid since the 15-YO had a ticket. Again, unless Travelocity changed their website since Horwitz-Denger purchased the tickets, I am wonder how could she made a reservation for her 15-YO grandson since a reservation can’t be made for an accompanied minor on the Travelocity website.

    @ Edmond – “Bottom line: a business needs to honor what an employee says to a customer. Whomever that employee is, and at whatever level. If we do, we will continue to suffer.”
    - – - – - –
    It cuts both way. If it turns out that Travelocity didn’t made a change to their website in regards to UMs and it turns out that Horwitz-Denger purchased an adult ticket for her 15-YO grandson then she needs to be hold accountable.

    @ Ira –“Given the conflicting info in US Air’s own requirements, US Air can’t assert one clause over the other. It bears the responsibility for its error.”
    - – — – -
    It is clear.

    @ Ira –“Also, the point of booking on the Internet is to avoid having to call.”
    - – - – - – — –
    As stated above, I went to the Travelocity website to book a ticket for a 15-YO and couldn’t. Can someone explain why Horwitz-Denger could and everyone else can’t?

    @ Ira –“I believe that both Travelocity and US Air owe her for her time and alternative arrangements. They should step up as Delta has.”
    - – - – - – - – -
    Delta shouldn’t have paid. I think that Delta CSRs thought the $ 100 UM fee was already paid since you can’t purchase a ticket for a UM on Travelocity and the $ 100 UM fee is charged when a UM ticket is purchased from Delta. Why wasn’t Travelocity contacted when they were at the Ft. Myers airport to work out this problem? If you had travel insurance, you can’t just buy replacement clothes or buy another airline ticket on your own WITHOUT first contacting the insurance company. You can’t just buy a ticket on another airline than expect Travelocity and/or US Airways to pay for it without following proper procedures.

    @ Kevin – “When the ticket was purchased, the age of the passenger was put into the system. At that point, something should have kicked in. In the 21st Century, I there is really no excuse for a pop up screen not to pop up. I consider it very unethical for airlines to sell tickets that can not actually be used.”
    - – - – - – -
    As I wrote above, I went to the Travelocity website to book a ticket for a 15-YO and couldn’t. Unless Travelocity changed their website after Horwitz-Denger purchased the tickets, I have questions on how Horwitz-Denger purchased tickets for her 15-YO grandson. There is a very strong possibility that she selected ‘one’ adult instead of ‘one’ child between the ages of 2-17 if Travelocity has NOT made any changes to their website.

    @ Kevin – “They sold a ticket for a minor, knowing he was a minor and knowing that he could not fly without a companion on the return flight. They allowed him to board and fly half the route on this ticket, all the time knowing he was a minor with a connecting ticket on the way back…again saying nothing until he showed up for the return.”
    - – - – - –
    If Horwitz-Denger entered ‘one’ adult instead of ‘one’ child between the ages of 2-17 on the Travelocity, neither Delta or US Airways will know that Horwitz-Denger’s grandson was a minor or a UM. Did Horwitz-Denger gave the airline confirmation code for her grandson’s ticket to each airline when she was calling US Airways and Delta about their UM policy? I doubt it.

    @ Kevin – “They allowed him to board and fly half the route on this ticket, all the time knowing he was a minor with a connecting ticket on the way back…again saying nothing until he showed up for the return.”
    - – - – - –
    It was two different airlines so this is irrelevant…Delta is not going to call\contact US Airways to tell them that Horwitz-Denger’s grandson flew his outbound flight.

  • David Z

    Based upon the information in this article, it seems like Travelocity website is lacking when it comes to unaccompanied minors. Travelocity should disclosed the rules for unaccompanied minors when they sell tickets.

    They somewhat do, albeit it’s arguably lacking as you said:

    http://us.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/us.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=831&p_created=1208306393&p_sid=GhSYUb8k&prod_lvl1=41&prod_lvl2=43&p_prods=41,43&p_pv=2.43&p_accessibility=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NCw0JnBfcHJvZHM9NDEsNDMmcF9jYXRzPSZwX3B2PTIuNDMmcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1taW5vcg!!&p_li=&p_topview=1#Unaccompanied

    Unaccompanied Minor Service is service that offers airline supervision from the time of boarding until they meet the adult at the final destination. See below for more information:

    Children ages 2 – 5 are usually not eligible for Unaccompanied Minor Service. The child will have to travel with an adult.
    It is required by most airlines for children ages 5 – 14.
    A fee of $30 or more is usually charged each way.
    The adult meeting the child or minor at final destination will be required to present proof of identification.

    One of the so-called problems our travel company consistently have is how much information should our site give, yet not clutter with too much details. Random surveying and feedback have been somewhat inconsistent on certain subjects, so we post minimum details like fare rules and links to things like this elsewhere where they’re (again arguably) visible.

    We reveal almost on the spot those that are frequently asked for, and we place as “lower priority” other information that’s rarely consulted on. Constant work in progress.

    I too am curious if Ms. Horwitz-Denger contacted Travelocity anytime about this prior to the flight or not. I don’t see how or why they’re part to blame for this if she really didn’t, although that never stopped anyone from wanting to hold them responsible.

    Chris E, the part you quoted from US Airways:

    On the one hand, “children 15-17 may travel unaccompanied on nonstop and connecting flights without US Airways assistance.” On the other, “Children 15-17 who require US Airways assistance may travel unaccompanied on nonstop flights only.”

    The way I understood that, Ms. Horwitz-Denger’s grandson indeed doesn’t really need US Airways’ UM thing if he’s at least 15; that if she opted for it, they’d allow that only for nonstop flights and not connecting ones.

    If what I understood above is correct, then I don’t see either why US Airways denied him boarding. I say pursue this with US Airways, even though I missed the survey. :)

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ andi330 – “Before I could vote either way, I need to know if there is a reason the airline would think her grandson required assistance. Does he have a visible handicap which would require him to need assistance in some way or was this a case of the airport personnel not knowing their company policy? Does he look visibly younger than he really is?”
    - – - – - – -
    As stated previously, we don’t know what took place at the counter. Maybe the US Airways ticket counter discovered that the ticket was an ‘illegal’ reservation…or maybe the sister-in-law (without thinking or knowing the policies) told the ticket counter that the 15-YO needs assistance between the gates thinking that it will be nice for someone to walk with him between the gates…or maybe that the US Airways counter agent was incompetent. We don’t know the whole story.

    @ Laine – “I think you should try to help because the grandmother did what she knew how to do to make sure her grandson could fly without problems.”
    - – - – - – - -
    Unless Travelocity made a change to their website in regards to UMs after Horwitz-Denger purchased the tickets for grandson, please explain to me how she could purchase tickets for 15-YO grandson on the Travelocity since it doesn’t allow tickets for UMs to be purchased?

    @ Laine – “I think what many people dont’t think of is that this grandmother is probably at least a middle aged woman that may not be very sophisticated about the internet and making travel arrangements. “
    - – - – - –
    Using your logic then she should have used a brick & mortar travel agent instead of an online booking site.

    @ Laine – “People in their thirties and younger, have always had computers, but older folks have not, and unless they have a real reason to be using the internet, other than email, may not be very experienced with researching information.”
    - – - – - – - -
    Yes, there are some older adults that are not computer savy but I can tell you that there are several that are. Your comment smacks of ageism.

    @ MVFlyer – “Unless her grandson had some obvious reason why he couldn’t make the connection on his own, I think you should intervene.”
    - – - – - -
    We don’t know what was said or took place at the Ft. Myers airport

    @ Liz –“Maybe grandma should’ve been better informed, but it sounds to me like she did what she could by asking the airlines & I don’t know why she would expect there to be a problem if she was told everything was fine.”
    - – - – —
    In regards to US Airways, we don’t know what took place at the counter. Maybe the US Airways ticket counter discovered that the ticket was an ‘illegal’ reservation…or maybe the sister-in-law (without thinking or knowing the policies) told the ticket counter that the 15-YO needs assistance between the gates…or maybe that the US Airways counter agent was incompetent. We don’t know the whole story and it is unlikely that we will.

    Unless Travelocity made a change to their website in regards to UMs after Horwitz-Denger purchased the tickets for grandson, please explain to me how she could purchase tickets for 15-YO grandson on the Travelocity since it doesn’t allow tickets for UMs to be purchased? I would like to see the Travelocity reservation was for an adult or an UM.

    @ Susan – “I think you should mediate – the bottom line is I think the US Air agent wanted to make some extra bucks for the company.”
    - – - – - – -
    Where did it state that US Airways wanted to charge more money? The article stated that the US Airways counter agent refused to issue a boarding pass since there was an adult in CLT to meet the boy. We don’t know what took place at the US Airways ticket counter in Ft. Myers.

    @ Benjamin Barnett – “Regarding ID for the child – the most recognizable ID is a passport, so just go ahead and get it.”
    - – - – -
    Unless the details were left out, there was no issue with ID. The TSA only requires ID for passengers that are 18YO and older.

    @ Josh – Unless Travelocity made a change to their website in regards to UMs after Horwitz-Denger purchased the tickets for grandson, please explain to me how she could purchase tickets for 15-YO grandson on the Travelocity since it doesn’t allow tickets for UMs to be purchased?

    @ Chris in NC – “Per US Airways’ own guidelines, her grandson should not have been denied boarding. Could the OP have done more, maybe, but the agent clearly erred. “
    - – - – - -
    It is hard for me to believe that a US Airways ticket agent (an average one or even a mediocre one) doesn’t know the UM policy. I don’t think that we know what took place at the counter. Maybe the US Airways ticket counter discovered that the ticket was an ‘illegal’ reservation…or maybe the sister-in-law (without thinking or knowing the policies) told the ticket counter that the 15-YO needs assistance between the gates…or maybe that the US Airways counter agent was incompetent\ignorant\etc. We don’t know the whole story and it is unlikely that we will.

    Like you, I am wondering how she could buy a ticket for her 15-YO grandson on Travelocity. I would like to see if the reservation was for one adult or for one UM.

  • KathyJ

    @ all those saying “They should have contacted Travelocity” when the boy wasn’t allowed on the return flight, or even when an unexpected fee was encountered on the outbound flight.

    Having read this blog for many months now, I have lost count of the number of times Christopher has intervened in cases where the people contacted Travelocity at the time of the first glitch, and Travelocity did absolutely nothing. I don’t suppose this case would have been any different.

  • Carver

    IMO

    Whenever there is a question as to what happened, that’s usually a sufficient reason to mediate the dispute, if for no other reason, then to get at the facts.

    @Arizona

    I can believe a counter agent not knowing the facts. I’ve had counter agents be very clueless about airline own rules all the time.

    I suspect though that your supposition is right, the counter agent asked if he needed help, he or his aunt heard, would you like help, and it all went downhill from there.

  • Leanne

    Travelocity cannot book anyone under the age of 18 on a reservation by themselves. The system just won’t allow it. An agent would have told her that over the phone if she called in to make the reservation. She must’ve put it was for one adult, over the age of 18, therefore lying about her son’s age. Travelocity should not have to do anything as she broke their policy on underage travelers.

  • Laine

    ArizonaTraveler-I can hardly be accused of age-ism as I am 65 and have taught my mother, who is 94, how to use email and some research tools. There are many people my age, and older, that are afraid of computers…….fearing that anything they do, not in a straight line, will “break” the computer. You may have been unable to purchase tickets for a 15 year old online, but I have been able to purchase them for a ten year old and two 8 year olds. I do agree, however, that she may have done better for herself if she had used a brick and mortar agency……….HOWEVER, we don’t know if she is disabled or hasn’t got transportation. Before you accuse me of being prejudiced against disabilities, I will tell you that I am both disabled and have limited transportation opportunities. I do both paid work and volunteer work from my computer at home.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ David Z – “Arizona Road Warrior stated ‘Based upon the information in this article, it seems like Travelocity website is lacking when it comes to unaccompanied minors. Travelocity should disclosed the rules for unaccompanied minors when they sell tickets.’ hey somewhat do, albeit it’s arguably lacking as you said:”
    - – - – - – - – -
    Most of the times, I will research the matter before responding with my comments but this time I wrote my comments before doing research. My comments was directed (without research) at their website in regards to the purchase of tickets for UMs. However, I went to the Travelocity website and discovered that you CAN’T make a reservation for a 15-YO.

    When I went to the link in your comments, it states:

    All unaccompanied bookings must be made directly with the airline.

    How could Horwitz-Denger purchase a ticket for 15-YO grandson on Travelocity? It is my guess that she purchased an adult reservation.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Carver – “I suspect though that your supposition is right, the counter agent asked if he needed help, he or his aunt heard, would you like help, and it all went downhill from there.”
    - – - – - – -
    Another reason could be that the US Airways counter agent discovered that the reservation was for an adult (since you can’t make a UM reservation on the Travelocity website) and the passenger wasn’t 18 or older…that may explain why they didn’t call Travelocity from the Ft. Myers airport.

    “reason to mediate the dispute, if for no other reason, then to get at the facts” – I agree…I like to see the facts especially how the grandmother was able to able to purchase a UM ticket on a website that doesn’t allow it.

  • Josh

    @LeAnne — come on, “lying about her son’s age” seems a little harsh. “1 adult” is the default Travelocity search; it’s entirely possible to unintentionally leave that (or as I did, add a 15-year old but mistakenly leave the default 1 adult).

    And in the end, it doesn’t matter, as the fare is the same regardless of age most of the time these days (I recall 4-5 years ago if I bought a seat for my under-2 kids the fare was half, but not anymore). Someone claiming an under-2 child that isn’t to get a discount would be “lying”; someone just booking the default fare isn’t.

    The reason Travelocity has that policy is to avoid having to track all of the restrictions for each airline (and I would be against the OP if, for example, they had booked a trip for a 12 year old on an airline that didn’t allow that)…but as pointed out, none of those apply to either DL or US, where a 15 year old can fly anytime/anywhere any other adult can.

    Delta’s booking site doesn’t ask anything about age (just total # of passengers) until you review the itinerary, then it has a checkbox for “The passenger is 14 or under, and agrees to the child travel guidelines and restrictions”, with nothing else about age. US Airways’ site actually has boxes for “Adults” and “Children (2-14)” right on the front page. Based on that, it seems very difficult for either airline to argue that they consider a 15-year old anything but an adult, or to deny a 15-year-old boarding using a valid “adult” ticket in their name purchased from Travelocity or elsewhere.

    It does point to yet another reason to maybe do research on the 3rd party sites, but always book your actual ticket from the airline directly.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ KathyJ – “Having read this blog for many months now, I have lost count of the number of times Christopher has intervened in cases where the people contacted Travelocity at the time of the first glitch, and Travelocity did absolutely nothing. I don’t suppose this case would have been any different.”
    - – - – - — – - –
    You are probably right but there is a process to follow. You can’t call them and spend $ 340 and expect them to pay it. Since you can’t book a UM ticket on Travelocity that might have explain the no call to Travelocity.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Josh – “US Airways’ site actually has boxes for “Adults” and “Children (2-14)” right on the front page”
    - – - – - – - — – - – - -
    “1 adult” is the default for the US Airways. On the front page for Travelocity, it list “Adults” and “Children (2-17)” right on the front page which makes it clear that the grandmother should have entered ‘0” for Adults and “1” for Children (2-17).

    There are other things (i.e. not calling Travelocity before the trip; not calling Travelocity at the Ft. Myers airport; selecting different airlines for each segments…it was problem the lowest fare; etc.) in this situation that makes me to question whether it was unintentionally or intentionally.

    @ Josh – “And in the end, it doesn’t matter, as the fare is the same regardless of age most of the time these days (I recall 4-5 years ago if I bought a seat for my under-2 kids the fare was half, but not anymore).”
    - – - – - – - – — – -
    In this situation, it didn’t matter but for international tickets it does matter. There are some airlines that still give a discount to children. Recently, I looked at fares for my family and the ticket for my 4-YO son was discounted by $ 200.

  • Sarah Di

    So, if you can tell by looking on both carriers’s websites that anyone 15 and older is considered an adult, US Airways has no case for denying a 15 year old boarding and Delta has no case for charging an UM fee at the airport. Unless there’s something more to the story anyway. Like Josh said, you’re considered a child from 2-14 booking on US Airways website. Delta doesn’t seperate out for age. It just says 1 passenger but if you dig a little, they also specify child as 2-14.

  • Carver

    @Arizona

    I’m on the fence about not calling travelocity at the airport. ( Leaving aside the age issue). It may or may not be possible to contact travelocity depending on the circumstances. I can easily enviosion after being denied boarding, the adult going to the nearest counter, a bit frazzled, and just trying to get the kid on the next flight.

    But all this points to my strong belief that bookings should be made directly with the travel provider.

  • Josh

    @AZ Road Warrior — we’re getting a bit off track; there’s no evidence either airline tried to void the ticket as “illegal” or that she intentionally tried to game the system (why would she, when she could have likely gone to the airline sites themselves and booked the same exact ticket, just with more precise wording that matched their policy that the agents didn’t follow). I agree she made a minor mistake, but it’s not a “void your vacation” mistake at all.

    I also agree that purchasing a new ticket without at least calling Travelocity was a mistake, but when you’re at the airport, crowded and rushed, with a kid who may need to get back to school or work, you don’t always make the perfect choice. She may not be due the full ~$300 cost of the replacement ticket.

    I think she’s due the following:

    1) From DL, the $100 charged. She already has that.

    2) From US, the price of the ticket. They refused carriage on a valid ticket; their recourse is to refund the ticket. She may not get all $300 back, but she should dispute the charge on the original US ticket right away.

  • http://www.imageswritten.biz Susan

    My husband is a commercial airline captain. I asked him tonight, about the what the gate agent should be expected to know and not know. He said it is likely that they did not know the rules. Increasingly all ground services are being outsourced he shared with me. This includes gate service employees. They may wear the colors of the airline, but they are in fact temporary employees or contract employees. Also airlines are staffing with as few people as possible, so many agents are working multiple gates and multiple flights and with the new on time departure mandates, my husband said gate agents are docked if the flight does not go on time – so the incentive to deal with “difficult questions/problems” is nil.

    He said half the gate agents cannot operate the jet bridge correctly, why should we expect them to be able to answer complicated policy questions.

  • Grant Ritchie

    Dear Chris,
    I’m not sure that this voting thing is much more than just a waste of time. People are virtually always going to vote “Yes”, and if, God forbid, they start voting “No”, doesn’t your raison d’etre kinda go away? Careful, buddy… hate to lose you. :-(

  • Geoff

    I really think that you blew it this time. Never ever ever try to work with a person that has not gotten all of the rules. We move kids by the dozens every month. I find out the current rules for each airline that is involved. It was her responsibility to know the rules! Or talk to a person that does know the rules and not worry about saving a measly 30.00 service fee (average). If you forget your passport when traveling internationally, do they let you an the plane – no! It was your responsibility to know.

  • Arizona Road Warrior

    @ Josh – “we’re getting a bit off track; there’s no evidence either airline tried to void the ticket as “illegal” or…”
    - – - – - — – - – - – - — -
    US Airways does have incompetent\ignorant\misinformed\etc. employees so there is a possibility that the counter agent at the Ft. Myers airport could have denied boarding out of ignorance. It is hard for me to believe that a ticket counter agent won’t know the UM policy especially during the summer time when there are a lot more UMs traveling especially.

    I think that there is more to the story like the counter agent asking the sister-in-law and/or 15-YO if the 15-YO needs assistance when arriving in CLT. And the sister-in-law (without thinking or knowing the policies) told the ticket counter agent that will be nice that someone will assist the 15-YO between the gates.

    Again, it could have been an incompetent ticket counter agent.

    @ Josh – “that she intentionally tried to game the system (why would she, when she could have likely gone to the airline sites themselves and booked the same exact ticket…”
    - – - – - – - – - –
    Most people would have booked this ticket as a round-trip ticket with a single airline instead of purchasing two one-way tickets. It is my guess that the Delta segment was the lowest fare for the outbound and the US Airways segment was the lowest fare for the return; therefore, the grandmother purchased this ticket instead of buying a round-trip ticket on a single airline.

  • Steve

    First off, I’m with Carver on the “take the case or not?” question. Any time there is a question over policies (as opposed to someone wanting a refund on a nonrefundable ticket, or something else where it’s clear what the company’s policy is), it’s worth taking the case, even if it turns out the traveler doesn’t deserve any compensation.

    Second, unless the 15-year-old did indeed require assistance, it seems US Airways didn’t follow their own policy (for whatever reason) and as such should compensate her.

  • andi330

    I ended up not voting (I got busy with life and didn’t make it back to the site before the poll ended). However, at this point, after reading all of the comments, I suspect my vote would have been “no.” Why? Because as stated previously by several other commentors and as I verified myself, Travelocity does not permit the purchase of a ticket for someone under 18 without an adult ticket purchase as well. Although it is possible Travelocity changed their site after the ticket purchase, I find it unlikely. That means that it is likely that the customer tried to get around that by purchasing her 15-year-old grandson an adult ticket. This policy is likely in place at Travelocity because they don’t want to be responsible for disseminating information about unaccompanied minor requirements, and because some airlines charge an extra fee for unaccompanied minors. This indicates to me, that this was likely caused by the customer purchasing the wrong class of ticket through Travelocity. To cap the issue, she then did not call Travelocity from the airport when the airline refused to board her grandson for help. She might not have gotten much help from them, because they don’t sell unaccompanied minor tickets, but she still should have called before buying a new ticket.

  • Meredith Putvin

    Okay, as I said, Travelocity (And other 3rd party sites) are not set up for Unaccompanied Minors. Period, End of story. They do not have the fees schedules and the proper security measures in place.

    Even though my daughter is 15, Southwest still flagged her as an unaccompanied minor. There are no additional fees, but this does let the airline know in case of emergency and there are a few additional steps they take in terms of emergency contact information that they don’t take with an adult. (I’ve booked business travelers as part of my last job.)

    I am talking from experience here, not because I am Crazy…I’ve been doing this travel thing for 10 yrs with my daughter. I scout ticket prices and flight availability from Boston to Providence and the different airports in and around Detroit. Hades, I even started scouting Train prices.

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