Am I being scammed by Celebrity Cruises?

Did the Summit just scam this passenger? / Photo by mag 3737 - FlickrDarryl and Carolyn Sigel believe they were scammed by their cruise line. After you read about what happened to them on the Celebrity Summit, you might agree with them.

Even Celebrity, it seems, sides with them, to a point: It’s offered $200 vouchers for what happened to them. Is that enough?

First, though, a few important details about the Sigels. They don’t drink and Carolyn uses a wheelchair. And, like a lot of travelers, they take pictures – lots of pictures.

After the Sigels returned from their Caribbean cruise in late April, they checked their credit card and found $100 in charges pending. They had no idea what they were being charged for.

Darryl picks up the story.

I called Celebrity. I was told I was charged $56 for two beach towels.

I did not take the beach towels. When we left the cabin on Saturday to go to the last breakfast, the beach towels were still on the sofa bed.

There was also a bar bill — $44 for a round of beers, Jack Daniels and an Evian.

Carolyn and I do not drink. I would never pay for water or beer.

But it’s Celebrity’s word against his, right?

Not really. Remember, the Sigels take lots of pictures, and they had a video showing the cabin with both towels in it just before departure. Their bags are packed right next to the towels, and it looks as if you can’t fit another item in them.

Think about it. What would they do with beach towels, anyway?

“We don’t go to the beach,” says Darryl Sigel. “If we went to the beach, Carolyn’s wheelchair sinks into the sand and it’s a total mess.”

OK, so we have proof that the Sigels didn’t take the towels, and if they don’t drink – and we’ll have to take them at their word that they don’t – then their bill is bogus.

But that’s hardly a scam.

That’s not all, though. Because Carolyn is in a wheelchair, space is important to the couple, and Darryl went through the trouble of measuring their quarters.

On the Celebrity website, it lists all the handicapped rooms. Our room, 2022, is listed at 347 square feet.

I measured the cabin and it’s approximately 164 square feet, not counting the loo.

Hmm, that’s pretty suspicious.

Darryl Sigel contacted Celebrity. A representative replies, acknowledging the company had “re-measured” the cabin and found that he was right – it wasn’t 347 square feet, as claimed, but 240 square feet. Oops.

“Amazing,” he says. “The ship is over 10 years old and they can’t get the size of the cabin correct That’s fraud, to me.”

Celebrity offered him a $200 credit for the misunderstanding. He responded by placing the $100 charge in dispute and contacting the Maritime Commission and me, which is understandable.

Celebrity seems to believe that his bar tab and room bill is more or less legit and that his complaints about space are kind of frivolous. Still, in the interests of good customer service, it’s willing to offer him a credit of twice the amount he owes it. But he’ll have to book another Celebrity cruise.

Did Celebrity do enough? I don’t know, if I were calling the shots at Celebrity, I might have refunded the apparently bogus bar bill, too. I would also go to great lengths to correct the website and ensure future customers that they were getting what they paid for.

  • lindaf47

    I voted that Celebrity did not do enough, although I do not think they were ‘scammed.’ I’ve cruised on Celebrity many times and am surprised by their response. Once, I had a bogus liquor charge on my bill, but I found that well before departure. It was investigated and proven that it wasn’t my charge. Easily resolved. I always check my bill on the tv on a daily basis. Having received the charge after departure makes it harder to investigate. However, I think they need to take the Sigel’s word on that. As for the towels, I think that’s a no brainer considering the photos.

    I’m not sure what to say about the room size. It does appear to be an error on the web site, where it’s correct in one place and not in another. If they had looked at the deck plan, even if only Deck 2, it would be obvious that the cabin wasn’t twice the size of the other inside cabins. As others have asked, did they bring up the size of the cabin while on board?

    I think “X” should refund the towel & liquor charge. A future credit would be a nice gesture. 

  • emanon256

    A quick web search reveals that Celebrity Cruise lines provides one beach towel per passenger in their room upon arrival, and that there is a fee if the towel is not in the room when they leave.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    You’re totally missing the point. Signing for the towels means nothing–they never claimed they’d never used a beach towel on the ship, they’re just denying stealing them. And they’ve got video of the towels still in the room while all their other stuff is packed.  People leave beach towels in their rooms all the time.

  • emanon256

    A quick web search reveals that Celebrity Cruise lines provides one beach towel per passenger in their room upon arrival, and that there is a fee if the towel is not in the room when they leave.

  • lorcha

    Did the grocery store try to give you “funny money” credits that could only be used on a future shopping trip of $1000 or more instead of refunding the incorrect charge? Of course not. No grocery store would try to correct a billing error with store credit that you’d have to spend a ton of money to even use. They’d refund the charge and apologize at least a half dozen times.

    Which, incidentally, is what the cruise should have done. You don’t resolve a bogus charge with basically unusable credits. You resolve it with an immediate and profusely apologetic refund. 

  • Lindabator

    Because the bill is delivered to your stateroom the night before, and is comprehensive.  After all, many folks still pay in cash, and they can’t be calling them when they get home for more moolah.  PLUS – they can always see the folio charges throughout the cruise, so not too sorry for them on that count.  (I mean, it only takes a moment to spot a bogus charge – and if you appraoch immediately onboard, they’ll remove it – I know, it’s happened once or twice to me as well).

  • Lindabator

    Not at all.  Since they still have people paying with cash, they’re always finalized the eveing before.  Sounds like they were trying to snag a transfer from you – glad they refunded the mistake.

  • Lindabator

    pretty unlikely, though, as some folks STILL pay with cash – they may not actully run the charge till after, but the bill is given the evening before – I’ve caught one or two goofs, and very easy to remove while onboard.  Just sorry they didn’t check this.  Hate when things like this happen to folks. 

  • Charles B

    If you say so. On the cruises I’ve traveled, the final statement usually arrives after the bars have closed for the night. About the only thing still open the next morning is the photo gallery.

    Much more likely explanation for the bar bill is that someone had a round of drinks and gave this couple’s room number. Cruises get lazy about checking room cards, and pax know it.

  • Lindabator

    :)

  • Lindabator

    But this WASN’T a refund for their charges, it was Celebrity saying they were sorry for the misunderstanding of the room size.  So I do think credits are doable, as he never bothered to even complain about it while onboard, where they may have been able to do something for him.  As to the charges, check your bill before leavng, but still be firm about the charges, although nice, and try again – he’s also be likely to get farther if he went through his travel agent or even online travel agent if possible (unless he booked directly, in which case, no advocate)

  • Lindabator

    But again – this wasn’t a refund, this was a mea culpa for the cabin size, and lets be honest – if it really was such a problem, maybe he should have brought it to someone’s attention while on board instead of waiting until AFTER the cruise.  (That plan NEVER works)

  • Lindabator

    NO – they are at the pool, NOT in your stateroom.

  • Lindabator

    But you sign them out, and have to sign them back in – so they are responsible in that case. 

  • Lindabator

    Actually, it DOES prove nothing.  After all, they could have taken the picture and THEN packed them in their luggage.  No way to prove that one way or the other.  Not saying that’s what happened here, but a picture is NOT proof in this case.

  • Lindabator

    Well, then drink up!  You are far more entertaining with your snark on!  :)

  • Lindabator

    I know – he tells us what the charges are for and then tells us he didn’t take towels and didn’t drink.  But did he argue those points with them?  Doesn’t really sound like it.  Then he tells us he measured the cabin, and complained after the cruise, when he SHOULD have complained while onboard.  Under these circumstances, I agree that a voucher for the mea culpa on the room size is enough.  What he should be doing is more forcefully arguing the charges – I’ve never seen Celebrity dig in its heels like that, so I wonder if he just complained to us and not enough to them?

  • Lindabator

    Actually, he didn’t seem to really argue against his beach towel/bar bill charges to Celebrity forcefully enough – he says he called and asked what the charges were for, but doesn’t clarify what happened next – he just explains to us it was bogus.  THEN he tells us he measured the room size, and contacts them AFTER the cruise to let them know, which is why they gave the credit voucher (which in this case would be sufficient, since he DIDN’T complain while onbaord it seems like).  Seems like he didn’t chek his bill, didn’t do anything about the room while onboard, and then didn’t complain about the charges to the correct people.  So what precisely should Chris be doing for him?

  • emanon256

    I think they were just griping about the cabin size, not asking for money. They probably wouldn’t have said a thing if they were never charged the bogus charges.  I took it as a, “we want these bogus charges refunded, and, oh, by the way, as long as I am complaining, you lied about the cabin size.”

  • MikeInCtown

    Well now that I read the wording of the story again, I do see that the credit was for the “misunderstanding”. So they were still being charged and on the hook for the $100 bill. So I still think the company didn’t offer enough because they didn’t give the refund.

  • emanon256

    Oh, I see what you are saying.  They gave him the voucher for the room size.  But they still won’t do anything about the charges.  I don’t think these charges were on their bill before they left.  Especially since the website says that beach towels are in the rooms, and they will be charge if the towels are not in the rooms after they leave.

  • Lindabator

    Since you show your Sign & Sail card, and sign the bar bill, not usually too difficult to prove.  BUT the voucher was for the apology for the room size, NOT a refund for the onboard charges – which I wonder why he didn’t dispute more forcefully.

  • judyserienagy

    Before I read the rest of this interesting story, let me compliment you, Chris, on telling us that Carolyn USES a wheelchair, that’s what people with certain disabilities use for mobility.  They are NOT confined to  wheelchairs.  Thank you for getting it right!

  • Lindabator

    Right, and since the voucher was for an apology for the room size misunderstanding it works for me.  I just wonder how forcefully he complained about the charges (Celebrity is usually not such a stickler, and is willing to refund erroneous charges)

  • MikeInCtown

    ADA rooms would typically be larger because of the wheelchair access. You would either have less amenities in the room or a larger room to accomodate all the items and have room for handicapped access. handicapped rooms typically aren’t more expensive because of this and sometimes can actually be cheaper since most items are different than what you would normally find and work surfaces are at different heights.

  • Lindabator

    That’s why I’m wondering if he complained about the charges as “forcefully” as he did the room size.  I don’t think he did – he never actally says anyone disputed them, just told him what they are for, and he tells us that’s a no go.  BUT – did he actually tell THEM?  Sometimes a firm NO is what is called for – and Celebrity is pretty flexible on things like this, so I think he should go to them and dispute these charges once and for all.

  • Lindabator

    That’s why I’m wondering if he complained about the charges as “forcefully” as he did the room size.  I don’t think he did – he never actally says anyone disputed them, just told him what they are for, and he tells us that’s a no go.  BUT – did he actually tell THEM?  Sometimes a firm NO is what is called for – and Celebrity is pretty flexible on things like this, so I think he should go to them and dispute these charges once and for all.

  • Lindabator

    Yep – and I think he should have handled it like the 2 situations it really was – you can’t expect sustomer service to take care of accounting – and that’s who he needed to talk about those charges with.  I hope he does soon, and is clear about the case.  Then I don’t see a problem with his getting this refunded – Celebrity is preety flexible.

  • TonyA_says

     Hi Linda, but how or why does this happen at all? I understand that most ships will use the room key/charge card unless there is another way to pay for drinks (e.g. cash). Can the bartender or server simply key in a room number without any paperwork (like a receipt)? I’m confused where spurious drink tabs can come from.

  • TonyA_says

    Never mind, we trust you. Your point is well taken. The OP was not wrong to expect the room to be bigger than what he got. Good research on your part.Thanks.

  • BillCCC

    I stand corrected. What is the link to this information? From everything that I have read that is no longer done on Celebrity.

  • http://twitter.com/johntbaker John Baker

    @MikeInCtown:disqus If you can get the link to work, you’ll see that on the same ship the two bottom classes are listed as bigger than any thing but an accessible suite (all accessible rooms so its apples to apples). The accessible inside rooms are 70 sq ft bigger than a standard rooms which is reasonable. Twice the size and larger than a deluxe ocean view room (all right on the exact same chart)? I wouldn’t think so.

  • TonyA_says

     Here for those who doubt John Baker.
    Of course John is right!

  • TonyA_says

    So you now have to take pictures of your beach towels beside packed bags just to prove they are in your cabin after your pack your suitcases?
    What is this, a car rental return procedure? Why not just sign in and sign out the beach towels? Why is this so complicated?

  • Lindabator

    But if they wrote the wrong drinks on the wrong slip (which I have seen happen), the charges can be incorrect.  Or if when the personnel onboard are loading those charges to the cabin, they may put the wrong room number in (I’ve also seen that – had a group, and they turned a couple numbers around, so each cabin got the others bill for that day).  BUT – very easily fixed, which is why i wonder if he didn’t actually dispute the charge, or if he just grumbled to us about it.  HMM…..

  • emanon256

    When I search there are many forum posts I am finding on it all saying the same thing.  This one seems to sum it up the best: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=22735237&postcount=9 
     
    Also the chat feature on the website confirmed there is a $28 charge per towel if they are not in the room after the guest leaves, and the room descriptions on the website state they include towels. Here is one of the many, http://www.celebritycruises.com/explore/ships/detail.do?shipCode=SL&tab=staterooms%2Fexplore%2Fships%2FstateroomDetails.do%3FcabinType%3DAW%26cabincls%3DB%26shipCode%3DSL

  • emanon256

    The mini bar is always open, and those charges show up after you leave if you use it after you get the final bill.

  • TonyA_says

    Most beach resort hotels have a similar policy. I leave my DRIED beach towel right on top of the bed or a WET beach towel hanging conspicuously on a towel rack to improve my chances of not getting incorrectly charged. I’m not sure you can always get housekeeping to verify that for you when everyone is trying to leave or check out at the same time. I’m not sure how else you can prove you returned the towels.

  • scapel

    347 sq ft minus 240 sq ft= 107 sq.ft – 107dividec by 347= 30% so give a refund of 30% of the cost of the cabin plus the $100 OB charge if Celebrity could not produce a signed receipt.

  • Joe_D_Messina

    When was he supposed to argue it with them? The charges appeared on his credit card after the trip was over. Clearly, he did contact them then because that’s where the credit offer came in.  And he disputed the charge and contacted the Maritime Commission, so I’m guessing he must also have tried pretty hard to get his point across to Celebrity.

    My impression is the cabin size issue was just an oddity they’d noticed that didn’t come into play until they’d been accused of stealing towels and charged for booze when they don’t even drink.

  • Michael__K

    In my experience, one of the first questions you are asked if you dispute a credit card charge is: “Have you contacted the merchant and tried to resolve the issue directly with them?”

    If you answer “no”, then you are asked to do this *first* before you can place the charge in dispute.

    The fact that the OP has placed the charge in dispute suggests that he answered “yes.”

    How “forceful” he was should be irrelevant. If he contacted the merchant to resolve the issue then the onus is on the merchant to resolve it (or not).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OEPJGQPIEB75YYDE5CJY6R3VFE Carver Clark Farrow II

    Well, to be more precise.  It doesn’t provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt, however, it is certainly sufficient to make the prima facie case that the OP didn’t take the towels, such that the onus is on Carnival to prove that they did.

    The alternative is that the OP wanted to steal the towels, purposely took photos of the towels next to the bulging luggage in the cabin on the last day, then stole the towels, i.e. effectively planting exculpatory evidence

    That scenario seems highly unlikely over used towels.

  • mbods

    Why in the world would they want to take another cruise with Celebrity?  This has happen to us before, not with a cruise line but at an all inclusive resort in Mexico.  They tried to charge us for massages we didn’t have.  Luckily, we caught this before we left and demanded it be taken off our bill.  Imagine if they had offered us a $200 credit instead???  NO way!

  • jim6555

    In this case, the charges appeared on a credit card account. The Sigels did not pay cash. As others have stated, the Sigels probably will never go on a Celebrity cruise again. Celebrity could have avoided all of the negative publicity that appears here just by doing the right thing and posting a $100 refund to the Sigels’ credit card account.

  • mikegun

    Nope…nothing. Not even an “We’re sorry”. I would have even taken a store credit.

  • Bill Armstrong

    If they were incorrectly charged on the credit card, they should be refunded immediately. Do they have signatures to back up their credit card charges?  Doubt it.

    No one likes to be charged for something they didn’t pay for.

    As for the room size, they should take the percentage discrepancy, double it and refund that portion of the cruise – as damages..  As an alternative, if Celebrity doesn’t do this, then they should be taken to court and forced to pay damages to all of the passengers they misrepresented the room size to.

    The cruise industry seems to be the new used car salesmen.

  • Rebecca O`Shaughnessy

    Oh sorry, I trust you too. 

  • sharpasice

    First checking the Celebrity website the room size states 270 sq ft.  NOT 347! In all honesty, I do not know if Celebrity includes the bathroom in their room dementions, I beleive they do..so did he measure the bath too?  AND who carries a tape measure on their cruise???  Makes me think they started out to make this complaint even before cruising. Second, just because the towels are next to their luggage doesn’t mean they didn’t stick them into the bags after the picture was taken or better yet into another suitcase NOT in the picture. IAlso, they don’t need to live around a beach to use these towels. They are bigger than the normal towel..maybe they just liked the size and took them home..In addition,  everyone should check their bill before leaving the ship. They didn’t do that?  I always get a last day copy just so this sort of thing doesn’t happen.  Celebrity is very good at refunding charges BEFORE you leave the ship. I think the OP just had a not so exciting cruise and is trying to get his money back. AND by the way, the price of that inside cabin is VERY low..so that $200 credit is probably 1/3 of the cost they paid.  More than enough.

  • TonyA_says

    Wouldn’t you say that someone who goes to the length of measuring a room is a very meticulous person? That said, wouldn’t that kind of a person examine his bill, too, before leaving the ship? And based on what I read, he did not complain until he saw his credit card bill. That does not sound like a man with a mission to malign the cruise line. Seems to me the additional credit card charges was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

  • sharpasice

    Really? Meticulous??  Come on..WHY would a person carry a tape measure on a cruise unless it’s to find fault?